The future of the Phoenix Suns

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JCSunsfan

JCSunsfan

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Their team +/- is better when he is on the bench. He gets criticized for leaving his defensive assignment to roam for blocks.

He is also a very poor free throw shooter so he doesn't see the court much at crunch time.

And the bird rights thing too.
 

Finito

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I don't follow them at all so I'm sure there's more to it but I know that it's at least in part financial. There are no Bird rights in play for him so they have to find a way to make it work inside the cap and they already have a lot of big salaries tied up.

They say Whiteside is just a flat out head case there is a reason a guy that's 7 foot and as skilled as he is hasn't been able to make it work on any team.
 

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If Whiteside gets a max deal, or close to it, there is a good chance he reverts to the player he was prior to last season. Miami doesn't seem to be in any hurry to free up the capspace to lock him in longterm, which should raise red flags amongst most front offices. Riley is one of the more intelligent and creative GM's in the league, if Whiteside was worth the money he'd find a way to keep him. Miami's window for competing is now, with Wade, Bosh, and Goran all being on the wrong side of 30. Whiteside should be the type of player they'd want to lock down longterm to be part of their core now and also transition to their next phase after Wade & Bosh are done but they don't seem to be in any hurry to move the pieces to keep him there. He hasn't really impacted the Heat in terms of wins either, which indicates he mostly puts up empty stats like Love in Minnesota or Monte Ellis anywhere he's been.

Something about him makes me think he'll end up in an Erick Dampier situation. He's putting up great stats, although they aren't helping his team win, plus he's on the verge of free agency. He will cash in somewhere but his current team doesn't have any interest on being the ones who will pay him. It's been reported he's a headcase also which makes him a gamble and the Suns are pretty solid at Center already so it would be a bigger gamble for us. There are too many unknowns and variables that come into play with him and considering he'll be getting paid around 15 million a year it's not in the Suns best interest to unload Chandler and Len to bring him in. They just got rid of their resident headcase. They shouldn't be looking to spend max money to bring in another one. This one is more of a unknown also. No one knows what his bottom will be or how he'll play once he's getting paid like a superstar.

If they spend big money on a Center, I'd rather see them go after Howard. At least he's been productive his whole career. With Howard you know what you're getting also in terms of attitude. If he isn't happy here it's already been shown how disruptive he can be, no one knows that with Whiteside. Our training staff might just be able to keep Dwight healthy also, which would help his play and possibly his overall attitude. Howard would also be moveable in the first year or two of a max deal because he's a known talent, if Whiteside isn't producing like he is now then who knows if anyone would be willing to take on his contract. Way too much to risk all around.
 

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They say Whiteside is just a flat out head case there is a reason a guy that's 7 foot and as skilled as he is hasn't been able to make it work on any team.

I know he's been a head-case all along. I remember hearing how his trip to China really helped him mature. And when he listed the players that helped mentor him there, I grew fearful that we'd ever consider signing him in the future.
 

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If Whiteside gets a max deal, or close to it, there is a good chance he reverts to the player he was prior to last season. Miami doesn't seem to be in any hurry to free up the capspace to lock him in longterm, which should raise red flags amongst most front offices. Riley is one of the more intelligent and creative GM's in the league, if Whiteside was worth the money he'd find a way to keep him. Miami's window for competing is now, with Wade, Bosh, and Goran all being on the wrong side of 30. Whiteside should be the type of player they'd want to lock down longterm to be part of their core now and also transition to their next phase after Wade & Bosh are done but they don't seem to be in any hurry to move the pieces to keep him there. He hasn't really impacted the Heat in terms of wins either, which indicates he mostly puts up empty stats like Love in Minnesota or Monte Ellis anywhere he's been.

Something about him makes me think he'll end up in an Erick Dampier situation. He's putting up great stats, although they aren't helping his team win, plus he's on the verge of free agency. He will cash in somewhere but his current team doesn't have any interest on being the ones who will pay him. It's been reported he's a headcase also which makes him a gamble and the Suns are pretty solid at Center already so it would be a bigger gamble for us. There are too many unknowns and variables that come into play with him and considering he'll be getting paid around 15 million a year it's not in the Suns best interest to unload Chandler and Len to bring him in. They just got rid of their resident headcase. They shouldn't be looking to spend max money to bring in another one. This one is more of a unknown also. No one knows what his bottom will be or how he'll play once he's getting paid like a superstar.

If they spend big money on a Center, I'd rather see them go after Howard. At least he's been productive his whole career. With Howard you know what you're getting also in terms of attitude. If he isn't happy here it's already been shown how disruptive he can be, no one knows that with Whiteside. Our training staff might just be able to keep Dwight healthy also, which would help his play and possibly his overall attitude. Howard would also be moveable in the first year or two of a max deal because he's a known talent, if Whiteside isn't producing like he is now then who knows if anyone would be willing to take on his contract. Way too much to risk all around.

Wow. Howard? I disagree. I don't think you'd know what to expect from Howard, either in production or attitude. And if you sign him to a max deal I doubt you could move him with dynamite the first year or two of that deal. He's still a pretty decent player but he's no longer the dominant player he used to be and back problems never get better. Any team that gives him a max or near max deal is just begging for problems. It's possible he'd be the better choice between the two but it's not a choice I'd ever willingly make. Howard, on a deal like Chandler's, would be a good investment but a max deal will be something like double that amount and he hasn't been worth that kind of money in several years.
 

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I don't think the Suns are a team that's a good fit for an immature player like Whiteside. We just had issues with Kieff and finally got rid of him, I don't think it's a good idea to bring in additional baggage like Whiteside.

Miami has Wade and Bosh, two veteran HOF leaders better than anything we have and yet their still having issues with Whiteside so I wouldn't risk it for the Suns.
 
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JCSunsfan

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What's he done to make him a head case? Not arguing, just curious.
 

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I like the idea of going after Horford. Any team should be able to afford him...that's the challenge.

Getting Whiteside and Horford would be a coup, if they can get lucky enough to land Ingram then we could be on our way back into the playoffs.
 

slinslin

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Horford is too old for this team and he played his entire career as a center.

Whiteside is a major headcase.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Horford is too old for this team and he played his entire career as a center.

Whiteside is a major headcase.


Again, I am not disagreeing about the headcase thing, can you give examples/explain.
 

Mainstreet

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Horford is too old for this team and he played his entire career as a center.

Whiteside is a major headcase.

In regard to Horford, being able to play center and PF would be a plus. The Suns need an established star and it seems players are playing longer and longer these days. With the Suns centers frequently injured this could help a lot. However, I'm guessing he would more likely go to a presumed playoff team.
 

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Don't want to repeat my thoughts on Len too much - But really you've got to put this season as a whole in perspective for him, meaning you've got to analyze his play in stretches - He's gone through four "stretches" this season:

Note all these are off the top of my head - You can look up the game logs for yourself for stats:

1. Beginning of season: Maybe 10-15 games up until Chandler got hurt , Evaluation: Played "Ok" , mpg was around 15 - Rebounding rate was high, offense iffy ... With the low minutes tough to evaluate
2. Stretch where Chandler got hurt - through Pelicans game (19 pts.): Played Great, his best stretch of the season ... Look at some fans comments throughout this stretch, the momentum for Len was riding HIGH and his PER topped out to about 17 (better than nearly everyone from his draft class)
3. Stretch after the Pelicans game up until he sat out 3 games for his hand injury - Played about as BAD as he possibly could ... PER fell all the way to 13 , shot like 30% over a 10 game stretch ... Team played teribble too during this stretch, especially defensively (maybe reason for low rebound #'s) ... Playing w/ 1 hand definitely hurt him offensively
4. Stretch since he came back from his 3 game absence .... PRETTY GOOD ... And again, he's still been banged up a bit w/ his hand ... Rebounding rate amazing in last dozen games ... PER back up to like 14
5. Final stretch - Right now to end of season

When looked at in stretches, it's been inconsistent for him ... Of course he played bad in that 3rd stretch, but you can't deny playing w/ 1 hand played a factor

My main point is that his stretches of good play are still encouraging + give me confidence for the future. For a 22 year old, I would rather have this type of "inconsistency" of great play / poor play, as opposed to just "average play" that limits future potential ....

Obviosuly I'm still confident in Len - More often than not he's been solid this season ... I mean literally the only stretch where he played poorly was that 10+ game stretch where he was playing injured - Take out that and his PER would be like 16-17 and people would probably have a different perspective ... I don't mind people saying Len is injury prone, but I would hesitate to question his talent/potential just yet
 

Mainstreet

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Don't want to repeat my thoughts on Len too much - But really you've got to put this season as a whole in perspective for him, meaning you've got to analyze his play in stretches - He's gone through four "stretches" this season:

Note all these are off the top of my head - You can look up the game logs for yourself for stats:

1. Beginning of season: Maybe 10-15 games up until Chandler got hurt , Evaluation: Played "Ok" , mpg was around 15 - Rebounding rate was high, offense iffy ... With the low minutes tough to evaluate
2. Stretch where Chandler got hurt - through Pelicans game (19 pts.): Played Great, his best stretch of the season ... Look at some fans comments throughout this stretch, the momentum for Len was riding HIGH and his PER topped out to about 17 (better than nearly everyone from his draft class)
3. Stretch after the Pelicans game up until he sat out 3 games for his hand injury - Played about as BAD as he possibly could ... PER fell all the way to 13 , shot like 30% over a 10 game stretch ... Team played teribble too during this stretch, especially defensively (maybe reason for low rebound #'s) ... Playing w/ 1 hand definitely hurt him offensively
4. Stretch since he came back from his 3 game absence .... PRETTY GOOD ... And again, he's still been banged up a bit w/ his hand ... Rebounding rate amazing in last dozen games ... PER back up to like 14
5. Final stretch - Right now to end of season

When looked at in stretches, it's been inconsistent for him ... Of course he played bad in that 3rd stretch, but you can't deny playing w/ 1 hand played a factor

My main point is that his stretches of good play are still encouraging + give me confidence for the future. For a 22 year old, I would rather have this type of "inconsistency" of great play / poor play, as opposed to just "average play" that limits future potential ....

Obviosuly I'm still confident in Len - More often than not he's been solid this season ... I mean literally the only stretch where he played poorly was that 10+ game stretch where he was playing injured - Take out that and his PER would be like 16-17 and people would probably have a different perspective ... I don't mind people saying Len is injury prone, but I would hesitate to question his talent/potential just yet

I keep my expectations for Len as a backup center. This way if he exceeds it, he is a huge plus. I think Len can only get better.
 

slinslin

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In regard to Horford, being able to play center and PF would be a plus. The Suns need an established star and it seems players are playing longer and longer these days. With the Suns centers frequently injured this could help a lot. However, I'm guessing he would more likely go to a presumed playoff team.

Ok, when has Horford actually shown he can play PF? He has not.
 

slinslin

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Here is what I would hope to do

Draft
Simmons at #1
Valentine at #12
Grayson Allen at #27

Free Agency
Target PF Amir Johnson, re-sign Leuer, Teletovic if the price is right
Target PG Jeremy Lin, Ish Smith

Len/Chandler/Leuer
Simmons/Johnson/Teletovic
Warren/Valentine/Tucker
Booker/Bogdanovic/Allen
Bledsoe/Lin/Price

Move Goodwin, Knight and #33 (or draft and stash) maybe future picks somewhere in the process to ensure the previous steps.

Coach: Do the unthinkable and re-hire D'Antoni. The roster is made for fast pace run and gun. Alternatively Luke Walton.

Get Steve Nash as part-time player development coach.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Here is what I would hope to do

Draft
Simmons at #1
Valentine at #12
Grayson Allen at #27

Free Agency
Target PF Amir Johnson, re-sign Leuer, Teletovic if the price is right
Target PG Jeremy Lin, Ish Smith

Len/Chandler/Leuer
Simmons/Johnson/Teletovic
Warren/Valentine/Tucker
Booker/Bogdanovic/Allen
Bledsoe/Lin/Price

Move Goodwin, Knight and #33 (or draft and stash) maybe future picks somewhere in the process to ensure the previous steps.

Coach: Do the unthinkable and re-hire D'Antoni. The roster is made for fast pace run and gun. Alternatively Luke Walton.

Get Steve Nash as part-time player development coach.

Hire Luke Walton. I am fine with that. Hire Steve Nash (or Grant Hill, if you can pry him away from his ownershp position with the Hawks) as President and CEO of basketball operations. McD remains GM. Sarver step out of active mgmt altogether or works exclusively on the business and marketing side. Sarver has to understand that such a move will make HIM more money too.
 
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slinslin

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Nash as president would be best but not sure if Sarver or Nash would want to go that far.
It would solve all of Sarvers problems in the short term but as soon as the Suns fail it will be blamed on him again no matter what while Nash would get the credit if they succeed.
 

Cheesebeef

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The Lakers pick isn't as valuable as you think.

it's more valuable then a tweener guard being paid 70 million dollars who we're already apparently trying to move.
 

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it's more valuable then a tweener guard being paid 70 million dollars who we're already apparently trying to move.

We are? Do you have a link or a quote for such? I knew most fans were displeased by him but I hadn't heard about us trying to move him.
 

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Unless they can convince Knight to come off the bench they should be trying to move him. Booker is the most promising and exciting young player since Amare, even if he isn't superior to Knight yet they should afford him every opportunity to play and learn.
 

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Unless they can convince Knight to come off the bench they should be trying to move him. Booker is the most promising and exciting young player since Amare, even if he isn't superior to Knight yet they should afford him every opportunity to play and learn.

Plenty of minutes available for Knight to repair his reputation and Booker to develop his game. Otherwise we won't be trading Knight, we'll be giving him away.
 

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it's more valuable then a tweener guard being paid 70 million dollars who we're already apparently trying to move.

Yea I'm not sure how anyone can seriously think that the Lakers pick isn't more valuable than a player like Brandon Knight.
 

Mainstreet

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Yea I'm not sure how anyone can seriously think that the Lakers pick isn't more valuable than a player like Brandon Knight.

Why don't we wait to see who the player who is conveyed with that pick before judging it? Then it may take years to know.
 

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