"The Guns of August": A book we Cards fans might want to read.

[Lomax to Green 84]

The book "Guns of August" is referred to in the movie 13 Days which chronicled the US/Soviet Cuban missile crisis. In the movie, President Kennedy refers to the book when he tries to convince his advisors that things maybe aren't quite as grim as they appear. The book is about the build up to World War I and how countries decided to join in the war largely because their perception of the situation was that things were alot worse than what was really going on.

Is it possible that we Cardinal fans are experiencing our own version of the Guns of August? Gloom and doom about our offensive line and quarterback situation has led many here and in the media to say that the Cardinals are headed to a disasterous 2012 season. But is it possible that things aren't quite as grim as the perception?

Offensive Line: They have looked really bad, but is it possible that this line comes together to be at least serviceable? During the 7-2 run last year the line played better as a unit. Levi Brown's injury hurts, but did we really lose a pro bowl talent in Brown? Nope. We replace a mediocre left tackle with a guy in Batiste who wants to prove he can start in the league. We replace the revolving door at right tackle with a young but very promising kid in Bobbie Massie.

Quarterback: To me John Skelton will never be a guy who wows us in practice or in the pre-season. He will never put up gawdy stats and have the desireable touchdown to interception ratio. Skelton has proven, however, that he is a winner. All the pre training camp buzz coming from the NFL Network that the players preferred Skelton may have actually been true. Just last week Warren Sapp was asked if he was on the Cardinals, which quarterback would he want to go to war with and Sapp answered emphatically that John Skelton would be his guy because of one reason: Skelton is a winner.

The optimist in me looks at our situation and sees a talented defense who should only get better, a talented slew of young skill position players at the wide receiver and running back position, and a schedule loaded with early home games which improves the odds of getting off to a good start.

 

[Darkside]

The book "Guns of August" is referred to in the movie 13 Days which chronicled the US/Soviet Cuban missile crisis. In the movie, President Kennedy refers to the book when he tries to convince his advisors that things maybe aren't quite as grim as they appear. The book is about the build up to World War I and how countries decided to join in the war largely because their perception of the situation was that things were alot worse than what was really going on.

Is it possible that we Cardinal fans are experiencing our own version of the Guns of August? Gloom and doom about our offensive line and quarterback situation has led many here and in the media to say that the Cardinals are headed to a disasterous 2012 season. But is it possible that things aren't quite as grim as the perception?

Offensive Line: They have looked really bad, but is it possible that this line comes together to be at least serviceable? During the 7-2 run last year the line played better as a unit. Levi Brown's injury hurts, but did we really lose a pro bowl talent in Brown? Nope. We replace a mediocre left tackle with a guy in Batiste who wants to prove he can start in the league. We replace the revolving door at right tackle with a young but very promising kid in Bobbie Massie.

Quarterback: To me John Skelton will never be a guy who wows us in practice or in the pre-season. He will never put up gawdy stats and have the desireable touchdown to interception ratio. Skelton has proven, however, that he is a winner. All the pre training camp buzz coming from the NFL Network that the players preferred Skelton may have actually been true. Just last week Warren Sapp was asked if he was on the Cardinals, which quarterback would he want to go to war with and Sapp answered emphatically that John Skelton would be his guy because of one reason: Skelton is a winner.

The optimist in me looks at our situation and sees a talented defense who should only get better, a talented slew of young skill position players at the wide receiver and running back position, and a schedule loaded with early home games which improves the odds of getting off to a good start.

Interesting analogy, but not really applicable here. During the Cuban missile crisis and WWI there were teams willing to join each side. With us as a football team there's really just teams piling against us. We don't have allies who can sub in a few lineman or a QB.

I do believe things are quite as grim as perception, in answer to your question. I think they're actually worse because I think the fans here on ASFN gloss over our incredibly weak situation. The ones who do predict doom and gloom this year are derided as being negative nancies or Darksiders. The truth is, we're in a world of hurt, and I don't know how Whis can scheme us out of it. I believe we'll run a lot more but I'm not sure, given our deficiencies, if that'll be enough.

Offensive line: We didn't lose a Pro Bowl talent in Levi, but we lost a guy who's started all 16 games since he got here. He wasn't even replaced or spelled during games that I recall, he played every down. Batiste has never even played 16 full games in any season. He may play as well as Brown (that's the absolute best I hope for) but he won't be able to maintain the consistency over several games. I doubt during long drives and at the end of games that he can even keep playing without needing a breather. And come the end of the season you can forget about it.

Levi was in excellent--more like outstanding--shape for a LT. So consistent. And even if you or others want to say he was consistently mediocre, that's fine, but it's more than we're going to get from Batiste. The injuries to Brown and Bridges mean we have to bring in guys to play more than they've ever played in their entire careers. We have no quality depth, which means at the end of long drives and the end of long games we're screwed because our new starting tackles are going to need air. It means at the end of the season when they're beat up and mentally and physically exhausted that we're screwed.

It's not just that bad, it's worse. Because I love our team and so does everyone here posting, so we don't even see it objectively no matter how hard we try. And if I'm saying it's that bad, being a total koolaider, then I know it's worse than I imagine.

Offense: Skelton deserves to start. But he's going to get blown up. A lot. All that stuff we all love about the dude, his poise and pocket awareness, will start to change after many weeks of getting destroyed.

Defense: They won't be nearly as dominant as people think with our offense going 3 and out so often. They'll be good and deserve to be good, but before this all happened with the oline and QB situation, I thought they'd be dominant. Not anymore. Too much time on the field. It wears on you through a full season, through full games.

I'll be happy to go 8-8 again with our schedule.

 

[Pariah]

What is it about this season that we, as a group, can't come to grips with?

"Maybe we're hiding Floyd"
"Maybe Whiz isn't giving Skelton the chance he needs in the preseason so he has reason to bench him"
...and now, "Maybe the OL and QB aren't as bad as they seem."

Let's apply occams's razor here folks: the most likely reason for the QBs and the OL (and by extension, Floyd) not looking so great is...wait for it....they're not that great.

I'm sure the line will at times look okay, as will Skelton. But in the NFL "okay"generally doesn't get you to the playoffs and "sometimes okay" gets you a top-12 draft pick.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

At this point, I'll go with 'OK'.

For them not to be, Snyder has to be worst than Hadnot; Massie worst than the turnstiles we had at R-tackle and Baptiste not meet the basic needs at L-tackle. Until demonstrated on the field of play, I won't panic and will go with a supremely confident, "they'll be OK".

 

[Darkside]

What is it about this season that we, as a group, can't come to grips with?

"Maybe we're hiding Floyd"
"Maybe Whiz isn't giving Skelton the chance he needs in the preseason so he has reason to bench him"
...and now, "Maybe the OL and QB aren't as bad as they seem."

Let's apply occams's razor here folks: the most likely reason for the QBs and the OL (and by extension, Floyd) not looking so great is...wait for it....they're not that great.

I'm sure the line will at times look okay, as will Skelton. But in the NFL "okay"generally doesn't get you to the playoffs and "sometimes okay" gets you a top-12 draft pick.

Yep, the NFL is all about consistency. People see Batiste for a game or two and say he'll be fine, but playing left tackle every down for 16 games is totally different. Same thing applies to Massie and just about every position on our Oline at this point, because we have no quality depth and only average--at best--starters. Massie and Batiste are in for an awakening, unfortunately.

 

[NV555]

Thank you for the great post.

In a nut shell we have not replaced #13 and without that foundation we can not rebuild.

 

[Darkside]

Thank you for the great post.

In a nut shell we have not replaced #13 and without that foundation we can not rebuild.

Not just KW, we haven't even replaced the mediocre line he had. We've regressed in both areas.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Guns of August is a fantastic book. As far as doom and gloom for Cards fans it's warranted and I wouldn't expect anything more than four wins with this team.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Interesting analogy, but not really applicable here. During the Cuban missile crisis and WWI there were teams willing to join each side. With us as a football team there's really just teams piling against us. We don't have allies who can sub in a few lineman or a QB.

I do believe things are quite as grim as perception, in answer to your question. I think they're actually worse because I think the fans here on ASFN gloss over our incredibly weak situation. The ones who do predict doom and gloom this year are derided as being negative nancies or Darksiders. The truth is, we're in a world of hurt, and I don't know how Whis can scheme us out of it. I believe we'll run a lot more but I'm not sure, given our deficiencies, if that'll be enough.

Offensive line: We didn't lose a Pro Bowl talent in Levi, but we lost a guy who's started all 16 games since he got here. He wasn't even replaced or spelled during games that I recall, he played every down. Batiste has never even played 16 full games in any season. He may play as well as Brown (that's the absolute best I hope for) but he won't be able to maintain the consistency over several games. I doubt during long drives and at the end of games that he can even keep playing without needing a breather. And come the end of the season you can forget about it.

Levi was in excellent--more like outstanding--shape for a LT. So consistent. And even if you or others want to say he was consistently mediocre, that's fine, but it's more than we're going to get from Batiste. The injuries to Brown and Bridges mean we have to bring in guys to play more than they've ever played in their entire careers. We have no quality depth, which means at the end of long drives and the end of long games we're screwed because our new starting tackles are going to need air. It means at the end of the season when they're beat up and mentally and physically exhausted that we're screwed.

It's not just that bad, it's worse. Because I love our team and so does everyone here posting, so we don't even see it objectively no matter how hard we try. And if I'm saying it's that bad, being a total koolaider, then I know it's worse than I imagine.

Offense: Skelton deserves to start. But he's going to get blown up. A lot. All that stuff we all love about the dude, his poise and pocket awareness, will start to change after many weeks of getting destroyed.

Defense: They won't be nearly as dominant as people think with our offense going 3 and out so often. They'll be good and deserve to be good, but before this all happened with the oline and QB situation, I thought they'd be dominant. Not anymore. Too much time on the field. It wears on you through a full season, through full games.

I'll be happy to go 8-8 again with our schedule.

If we go 8-8 Whiz is a miracle worker and should be able to lockup

the head coaching job for at least 5 more years. Just dont

draft Fluker( a massive right tackle) and try to make him a left tackle

 

[Krangodnzr]

I say what if; what if Baptiste is no downgrade from Levi and Massie develops into a good starter? It's not that unlikely, Levi was a pretty poor pass blocker since he took over on the left side.

I'm usually a pass-pass-pass kind of guy, but I'm in a agreement this year that the Cardinals really need to try to go against the grain and run-run-run. Slow the game down, take pressure off Skelton, and let him shine when the game is on the line.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Yep, should have read the book.

 

[Stout]

Guess what book I picked up from the university library for some light reading between classes?

 

[Catfish]

All gloom and doom coupled with fear and anxiety. Darksiders convention. Fourteen days later we have 2-0, a win in Gillette, 9 wins in the last 11 games, our designated starter hurt, (but the backup that nobody said could play is 2-0), the D is playing near top 5 football. C-mon Darksiders, join the fun.

 

[Stout]

Heck, I was just commenting on the book.

 

[Mulli]

my next get on my kindle.

 

[Stout]

my next get on my kindle.

It's absolutely riveting. I've had it since Monday, have no time or life because of school/personal stuff, and am still beyond 150 pages.