The Head Coach and the Star Players Don't Get It

[Mitch]

In listening to and reading Ken Whisenhunt's and the players' reactions to Sunday's meltdown it just confirms even more why the Cardinals will not win without Kurt Warner.

The Head Coach doesn't get it.

Adrian Wilson doesn't get it.

Joey Porter doesn't get it.

That's for starters.

Case #1: Ken Whisenhunt. We know from listening to his press conferences that he never accepts any blame for the team's failures.

Yesterday, it got worse.

Yesterday, when asked about how hard the last two losses were, Whisenhunt echoed a hollow, old Dave McGinnis refrain when he said, "it makes you sick to your stomach."

It gets worse.

Then Whisenhunt conceded that lopsided losses like the ones in Atlanta and San Diego and Seattle are "bitter" but easier to take because in applying the "24 hour rule" all you have to do is "get mad and move on."

Wow.

He went on to say that the three point losses are harder to take because "they stay with you longer."

These comments afford an inside view of why Coach Whisenhunt is so tolerant of embarrassing losses, and why those embarrassments are likely to keep occurring under his watch.

"You get mad and you move on."

Sorry, Coach, that is lame. Totally lame.

Has Whisenhunt even a small clue of what it means to be a Cardinal fan?

Does he even know what those lopsided, embarrassing no-show games do to the psyche of the fans, let alone the players?

Those embarrassing losses make rabid Cardinals' fans feel disgusted that we ever even put an iota of faith (and tons of time and money) into the coaching staff and the players to give us a product that we can believe in.

Rabid fans would MUCH rather watch their team play competitively, even if the team inexplicably rolls over with the game on the line than to watch them play like total frauds for four quarters.

What rabid fans don't want to hear from the HC are excuses...

What rabid fans don't want to hear from the HC is "it make you sick to your stomach"...especially when the same coaching mistakes are being made game after game.

And the last thing rabid fans want to hear from the HC is that all the HC has to do following a debacle is "get mad and move on."

If there ever was a loser's reaction to a blowout loss, this is it.

What rabid fans want to hear from the HC is a sense of responsibility.

What rabid fans want to hear from the HC is that blowout losses cannot ever ever ever be tolerated.

What rabid fans want to hear from the HC is what he intends to do to prevent the blowout and close losses.

After a close loss, what rabid fans want to hear from the HC is what the HC and the players learned and what they can do to correct the mistakes...even at the expense of saying "this week you will see a different approach"...this week you will see that we will be "astute in our time management"..."we will make those improvements because we know better."

In other words...the hollow "it makes you sick to your stomach" means nothing if and when the HC does SO LITTLE TO CHANGE THE APPROACH.

If you are THAT sick to your stomach, how about doing something about it?

For one example, if you are THAT sick of watching your Pro Bowl SS get abused in pass coverage, how about DOING something about it?

Speaking of the Pro Bowl SS...he concluded his media remarks yesterday by claiming rather vociferously that "we are not on the same page."

Then...without explaining further...he left the scene in a huff.

This left the reporters speculating as to the ambiguity of Wilson's use of the word "we."

Who?

The coaches and the players?

The coaches and the defense?

The players on the defense?

The players on both the offense and defense?

Or, all of the above?

Sorry to say, but this has been a redundant refrain from Wilson throughout his tenure in AZ.

He was quick to divulge this summer that he and Rolle were rarely on the same page.

This time around Wilson is simply taking a lessson from his HC.

Instead of simply stating, "Yes, I was assigned to cover Shinacoe and I should never have allowed him to catch both the seam passes down the stretch. The first one I let up on thinking I had safety help, and the second one I was in much better position to make the play, but for some reason I guessed the ball was traveling wide right of the target, which is why I did what DBs are not supposed to do, which is get turned around, just when the ball is about to arrive"...

Yup, instead of simply fessing up, Wilson deflects the blame. It's oh so easy. You just say "we are not on the same page" and storm off.

Remember Wilson is the veteran player/leader of the defense who assured all the folks at FOX before the first game that "the road to the NFC West Championship still goes through Arizona."

More hollow rhetoric when the speaker of that quote seems to lack the desire, the hustle and/or the fundamentals to finish off a standard play in coverage.

Then there is the prize free agent DE/OLB Joey Porter who became enraged that suddenly a host of reporters wanted to speak with him after the game Sunday in light of the fact that Porter finally had a good day rushing the passer (2 sacks). Porter throws this nutty at the reporters asking them "Where were you the last few weeks, huh?"

Um, Joey, the last few weeks you were still taking an extended BYE week. Your slow-ass lethargic double was filling in for you while you were still whooping it up somewhere else.

Funny that with all your experience in the NFL you don't know or understand this.

The media tends to interview the players who make an impact on the game.

Brett Favre did something today to try to galvanize his teammates...he said that instead of directing so much attention to their rocky standing with their embittered HC, each player including himself should simply focus on correcting his own mistakes in order to make the team better.

Refreshing...even in the aftermath of an epic comeback win that rocked the USA...with every reason in the world to wish his HC be fired---Favre was willing to offer a "mea culpa" of sorts and was urging his teammates to do the same.

I've never been a huge Brett Favre fan...but he won me over with this one...because...he truly gets it. And as we saw Sunday, beaten and battered as he was...he truly wants to win.

 

[moklerman]

Favre has certainly brought much on himself but he has certainly had magical moments. Last year vs. SF when he threw that last second TD to win the game...it was damn impressive. Maybe he's still got something left and maybe the Cardinals have given the Vikings that spring board game to get them rolling. Giving up a 14 point lead with 3 minutes left in the game certainly brings back memories of Chicago, etc.

Whis has certainly been the leader of a roller coaster team though. Even with Warner, you could never really feel safe with a lead or even feel confident about any particular game. The NE game comes to mind when they got destroyed.

I've already learned that my patience isn't strong enough to try to keep pace with Whis. I guess it's better to think that he's unflappable and has a plan and doesn't let emotion get the best of him but there have certainly been times where I just don't agree with his approach. He's proven me wrong more times than not, but it's very hard to go along with what he's doing at times.

 

[jefftheshark]

Too bad Whiz isn't Japanese, then he'd know how to satisfy the fans after a loss:

You must be registered for see images attach

JTS

 

[82CardsGrad]

I have never been and still am not a Favre fan... however, the dude does battle, endlessly... and for that, I can't fault him.

As for the rest of your rant Mitch - I really think you're going overboard in an attempt to connect dots that just aren't there. What Whiz said in those statements is not at all terrible, not at all surprising and not at all out of step with being a solid headcoach. And, what we don't know is what he actually says to the people that matter most - his players and coaches.
As for Wilson and Porter - since when did either of those two put on redeeming displays with the media?? Uh, how 'bout NEVER! The way they addressed the media in those clips you referenced below is exactly in keeping with their historical media performances... nothing new there.

Look, the Cards are 3 & 5 and one game out of first place. Seriously, all kidding aside, do you really, REALLY expect them to have a better record at this stage of the season??
As I've stated since week 1, this upcoming 5 game stretch, where four of the 5 games are home, will determine our fate... Let's see what transpires over this period before going on wild witch-hunts...

 

[MrYeahBut]

Look, the Cards are 3 & 5 and one game out of first place. Seriously, all kidding aside, do you really, REALLY expect them to have a better record at this stage of the season?? As I've stated since week 1, this upcoming 5 game stretch, where four of the 5 games are home, will determine our fate... Let's see what transpires over this period before going on wild witch-hunts...

You are probably right about the expectations to some degree, at least with me. I think the way they got there has left alot to be desired...ie blow out losses and then the way the last 2 games ended. Fans expect teams to be competitive and accept responsiblity when they are not

 

[THESMEL]

Favre complimented the Cardinals, again and again and again, So did Peyton Manning last year. post game.

Seems were suddenly the lovable Cardinals nobody hates and everybody wants to play every week.

I liked it better when we were THAT BIRD in the 2008 playoffs.

Whiz looks like he's in over his head, as does every member of this franchise.

I say Mike Miller, Russ Grimm need to step up with responsibility for their units.
as Well as Davis and Spencer. It's time to get some of Mitch's answers from the coordinators.

Wade Phillips, He's a man and out of my doghouse when he left the Cowpukes.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Favre complimented the Cardinals, again and again and again, So did Peyton Manning last year. post game.

Seems were suddenly the lovable Cardinals nobody hates and everybody wants to play every week.

I liked it better when we were THAT BIRD in the 2008 playoffs.

Whiz looks like he's in over his head, as does every member of this franchise.

I say Mike Miller, Russ Grimm need to step up with responsibility for their units.
as Well as Davis and Spencer. It's time to get some of Mitch's answers from the coordinators.

Wade Phillips, He's a man and out of my doghouse when he left the Cowpukes.

Yea, our special teams SUCKS this year, huh???

 

[PaulW]

Just one thing to say: When people tell me "just forget this game", you know how many games I have to forget. I've been a rabid fan since 1960. I'm now 67 and either travel to games as I did this week to MN and watch all the other games on DirectTV.

Mitch, I enjoy your rants, because your right on top of this one! Wilson should never be covering anyone in sure passing situations, he shoul be rushing the QB from the best point of attack. B. Robinson should not be on this team, he gets pushed down field and is never double teamed, doesn't have to be.

I also agree that this is an inferior coaching staff, when Davis cannot adjust to the slants from the right side, it was open all day. D. Washington should have been not Wil Davis, he's too slow.

I do not like the casual approach taken by our head coach, no discipilne on this team. Every talks about the great shape that the team is in, but week after week they beat up in the 4th quarter; and Rhodes was completely exhausted after running 64 yards and stumbles and fumbles.

This is not what I want in the team that I spend alot of time rooting for and as Mitch put it spends alot of money on, especially going to games like this week. It's along weekend when you live in NJ.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This is not what I want in the team that I spend alot of time rooting for and as Mitch put it spends alot of money on, especially going to games like this week. It's along weekend when you live in NJ.

Then go find another team.

Some of the Cardinals fans in NJ. Spend the money, and don't cry about it every single week when everything isn't perfect 100% of the time. Nobody put a gun to my head to pay. I am not so blind that I don't remember this is the Cardinals, they have not been a successful organization. Recently sure, but come on, that is 2 years out of 60. If fans are so "rabid" how can they not know what they are getting into.

Sorry to be rude but you specifically state this is not what you want. Root for the Giants they win a lot.


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A thread expecting perfection from a team at each and every level.

Isn't the "perfect fan" supposed to support its team through thick and thin ?

After reading this thread, I don't think I want to be a "rabid fan". Doesn't sound like I am arrogant, illogical, or over-emotional enough. (I think some will differ with that opinion LOL)

 

[bg7brd]

Then go find another team.

Some of the Cardinals fans in NJ. Spend the money, and don't cry about it when everything isn't perfect 100% of the time.

A thread expecting perfection from a team at each and every level.

Isn't the "perfect fan" supposed to support its team through thick and thin ?

Sorry this thread is over the top, over dramatic, and is the exact reason why I am very thankful "rabid fans" don't run this organization.

How quickly "hardcore fans" turn their back on there team.

I agree with your post 100%.

 

[Mitch]

Just one thing to say: When people tell me "just forget this game", you know how many games I have to forget. I've been a rabid fan since 1960. I'm now 67 and either travel to games as I did this week to MN and watch all the other games on DirectTV.

Mitch, I enjoy your rants, because your right on top of this one! Wilson should never be covering anyone in sure passing situations, he should be rushing the QB from the best point of attack. B. Robinson should not be on this team, he gets pushed down field and is never double teamed, doesn't have to be.

I also agree that this is an inferior coaching staff, when Davis cannot adjust to the slants from the right side, it was open all day. D. Washington should have been not Wil Davis, he's too slow.

I do not like the casual approach taken by our head coach, no discipilne on this team. Every talks about the great shape that the team is in, but week after week they beat up in the 4th quarter; and Rhodes was completely exhausted after running 64 yards and stumbles and fumbles.

This is not what I want in the team that I spend alot of time rooting for and as Mitch put it spends alot of money on, especially going to games like this week. It's along weekend when you live in NJ.

Great points, Paul.

We watch the games...and it's as simple as when the coaches on this team say they will evaluate the tape and the likes of Bryan Robinson and Gerald Hayes are starting in place of two superior athletes in Dan Williams and Daryl Washington (benched after a 10 tackle 1 sack performance no less) and Adrian Wilson, once again, is getting abused in coverage (remember his gutless no hustle effort versus TE Jeremy Shockey who was limping on his routes?...and it goes back way farther than that)...the coaches lose all credibility.

And despite what anyone says...this is OUR team and we have every right to be pissed off. No one expects perfection...but is it too much to expect rational, intelligent decision making and maximum effort.?

This team needs the incentive of getting the bye week off to get at least the maximum effort. It's pathetic.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

As for the rest of your rant Mitch - I really think you're going overboard in an attempt to connect dots that just aren't there. What Whiz said in those statements is not at all terrible, not at all surprising and not at all out of step with being a solid headcoach. And, what we don't know is what he actually says to the people that matter most - his players and coaches.

Agreed.

I need to see an example of the head coach that accepts responsibility.

Actually, I want to know what counts as accepting responsibilty, cause I see Whiz accepting a lot of it.

Also, I would like to know what makes Whiz so arrogant. He is arrogant when he does what is best for the team, but only when it goes bad.

When he does accept responsibilty, it is not good enough. I guess until he spills blood for his sins against such supportive, and "rabid fans as these" it won't be good enough.

Whiz has a lot of fault this year, no doubt. But it has gone past logical with a lot of the complaints lately.

Some of us have to get back to reality and then make the complaints.

As for Wilson and Porter - since when did either of those two put on redeeming displays with the media?? Uh, how 'bout NEVER! The way they addressed the media in those clips you referenced below is exactly in keeping with their historical media performances... nothing new there.

Agreed.

Again, this is just ridiculous, and yes at risk of being dissrespectful, I fully 100% think this whole thread is RIDICULOUS.

Get angry because you don't feel players care, or try, then get angry again when the player is angry about losing. LOL. How illogical is that ?

Back to pushing them in the pool, and yelling at them for being wet.

Look, the Cards are 3 & 5 and one game out of first place. Seriously, all kidding aside, do you really, REALLY expect them to have a better record at this stage of the season??
As I've stated since week 1, this upcoming 5 game stretch, where four of the 5 games are home, will determine our fate... Let's see what transpires over this period before going on wild witch-hunts...

I love all the talk about how people think they deserve better.

"Deserves, got nothing to do with it"

First, off there are some fans on this board that don't deserve a 3 & 5 team. This is support for you team ? Jeez. Uh, way to have patience for about 2 weeks LOL.

Second, if it is so bad, and you all deserve better then go root for another team. Go to one of those "great organizations" that "win all the time" and NEVER EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG.

Don't mean to rant, but if we are just going to be ridiculous, then so be it.

 

[Darkside]

Mitch, always enjoy reading your stuff, but I disagree to some extent with what you're saying. I'm not saying you're wrong, I think it's a matter of personal taste. If I wanted snappy lines and fire and emotion from the coach I'd still be wishing we had Denny Green. Buddy Ryan was good at that too. Now is the worst time possible to get emotional and start blaming people, even if they're just blaming themselves (more on that in a bit). It's actually Whiz's calmness and steadiness--he's always the same, win or lose--that keeps me hopeful, along with our remaining schedule. If he came out and said all the things you want him to say, I'd be even more worried. I don't want to be right about what's going on with this team, I really don't, because if it's that simple and stupid as we all seem to think then Whiz truly isn't a very good coach.

There's a difference between die-hard fans and a coach and players. I expect shrill proclamations from die-hard fans. That's what they do; it's who they are. I don't want nor expect that from a coach. I prefer the calm approach, as if he knew it would be tough and he's working through it. I have to assume, I just have to, that he's way more aware of the problems than we are--in his mind, it's probably way worse than we can possibly imagine. I have to believe that.

Finally, the sad truth is, many of the players and coaches simply can't be as honest as we feel they should be. Because the truth is when an offense only puts up 10 points, like they did last week, you aren't going to win many games. Not many at all. People act like we played the game of the year last week, when the truth is the Vikings are still a bad team, and we could only produce 10 damn points of offense. 10!! That won't win anything. That may not even win if you double it up. So they're reduced, in many situations, to offering up platitudes instead of the truth--because the truth would mean pointing fingers at your teammates on offense, or a single player, or frankly even the coaches. Do we really want that? Because I don't. I'd rather they take care of it and discuss it internally and work it out.

And people act like taking all the blame on themselves, as an individual, is the way to go. But that's disingenuous also. What's LRod supposed to say? I need to play better? That isn't honesty, it's nice to hear, but it's not necessarily the truth. Is he supposed to say, "I kicked ass, no clue why we lost, someone other than me sucks." Won't happen, shouldn't happen. Whiz could say, "I coached like a dog," or something to that effect, and that would make everyone feel much better so they could say I-told-you-so, but it doesn't make it true, not when Fitz is running wide open all day and not when everything I've read has suggested that Whiz out-coached Chilly in every phase of the game. These may be things we want to hear, for whatever reason, but it doesn't make them true, and saying them doesn't make him more honest than saying, "We'll get mad and move on." You have to stick together as a team, and to be perfectly honest and sappy I love the way this team sticks together. They honestly do support each other. I remember Whiz saying he loves Flag and one of the main reasons is because he can sit and watch who sits with who during dinner and who's close and tight knit so he can see what kind of family he's got. We have a slim chance of doing anything significant this year, but without sticking together as a team we have no chance.

(Edit: And as far as effort, the team is obviously giving everything they have. What you call lack of effort is akin to your saying ADub sucks and has nothing left. It's not Adub's fault he's put in a position against a slot receiver and told to cover one on one, and quite honestly, expecting him to cover Shiancoe 1on1 is insane also and everyone knows it. He's never been a cover guy, but I've seen him covering more receivers and TE's this year than any other. It's ridiculous, and quite frankly insulting. Ronnie Lott couldn't cover some of these receivers 1on1 at the line of scrimmage, and forget about Shiancoe. That's what he means about being on the same page: either they got confused on defense and he was covering dudes he wasn't supposed to, or he thought the scheme didn't suit their talents.)

 

[bg7brd]

Agreed.

I need to see an example of the head coach that accepts responsibility.

Actually, I want to know what counts as accepting responsibilty, cause I see Whiz accepting a lot of it.

Also, I would like to know what makes Whiz so arrogant. He is arrogant when he does what is best for the team, but only when it goes bad.

When he does accept responsibilty, it is not good enough. I guess until he spills blood for his sins against such supportive, and "rabid fans as these" it won't be good enough.





Agreed.

Again, this is just ridiculous, and yes at risk of being dissrespectful, I fully 100% think this whole thread is RIDICULOUS.

Get angry because you don't feel players care, or try, then get angry again when the player is angry about losing. LOL. How illogical is that ?

Back to pushing them in the pool, and yelling at them for being wet.




I love all the talk about how people think they deserve better.

"Deserves, got nothing to do with it"

First, off there are some fans on this board that don't deserve a 3 & 5 team. This is support for you team ? Jeez. Uh, way to have patience for about 2 weeks LOL.

Second, if it is so bad, and you all deserve better then go root for another team. Go to one of those "great organizations" that "win all the time" and NEVER EVER DO ANYTHING WRONG.

Don't mean to rant, but if we are just going to be ridiculous, then so be it.

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't get the main point of the rant. I know when I played sports the close losses always ate at me a lot more than the blowouts. And, I thought most athletes would agree with me. I'm not sure why that would be different at the NFL level.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And despite what anyone says...this is OUR team and we have every right to be pissed off. No one expects perfection...but is it too much to expect rational, intelligent decision making and maximum effort.?

Despite what anyone says this is OUR team, and we have every right to enjoy the team, and defend them when they are unjustly accused by over dramatic fans.

I have every right to call out something they find to be untrue, and over dramatized.

I am done dealing with this "Plight of the Pissed Off" Who in the heck is preventing the pages, upon pages of whining, moaning, bitching, and inane misery filled B.S. that is spread all over this board, that board, everywhere.

To say that you are speaking "despite" other people is further ridiculousness, there hasn't been a rant, complaint, or howl to the sky that has been censored or erased. It has all been able to be posted, talked about, and discussed to death and back. Despite ? That is ridiculous to say.

You got what ? One or two posters like myself that have had enough and say "This is just madness." Or call out the posters who EVERY SINGLE FLIPPIN' WEEK say "I am leaving this team, I deserve better, etc., etc." IF there is any despite. It is I enjoy this team, and try to defend it DESPITE being ganged up on, DESPITE being ridiculed for doing so from OTHER CARDINALS FANS NO LESS, DESPITE having to hear the standard "they are fans and can complain if they want" post EVERY time.

Yet, I ask for freedom to enjoy and it is lunacy ?

Despite my fanny, more like it.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Too bad Whiz isn't Japanese, then he'd know how to satisfy the fans after a loss:

You must be registered for see images attach

JTS

Do a comedy schtick with Buck Henry?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't get the main point of the rant. I know when I played sports the close losses always ate at me a lot more than the blowouts. And, I thought most athletes would agree with me. I'm not sure why that would be different at the NFL level.

You would have to play sports, give 100% of everything you have, and lose to know that.

There is no other way to understand the situation. NONE.

Anyone can talk X's and O's, watch film, and learn the game they watch. But when you play it, and you sweat, and you fight, you bleed, etc., etc. Then you understand the "culture" for lack of a better term of the game.

Hence my frustration. You can't get angry at a player for being angry after a loss, when the reason you are angry is because you think they don't give a damn. It makes no sense, at least to someone who has been in that position, on and very very very very small scale compared to these atheletes.

 

[ReddBird]

So even though we lost in OT -- to a team that was favored to beat us by nine points -- there's nothing positive to report? The coach is an idiot, the star players are chumps, and our season is completely over?

If the Cards had held on to win in the closing seconds, I doubt Mitch would have embraced the Dark Side so thoroughly. There's more bitterness here than reality.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

So even though we lost in OT -- to a team that was favored to beat us by nine points -- there's nothing positive to report? The coach is an idiot, the star players are chumps, and our season is completely over?

If the Cards had held on to win in the closing seconds, I doubt Mitch would have embraced the Dark Side so thoroughly. There's more bitterness here than reality.

He doesn't get it.

But maybe I am just not RABID enough.

Sorry, to be so confrontational, and rude, but this is my team and my board just as it is everyone's. Felt the need to rant and vent about what I find to be going a little too far, IMO. And also vent about some of what is being said that is being posted that is insulting to me.

It makes me no better or no worse understood, but as I said I felt the need to vent so I did.

 

[jefftheshark]

Do a comedy schtick with Buck Henry?

Buck Henry? I thought it was Harry Reid.

JTS

 

[Buckybird]

But maybe I am just not RABID enough.

I think many of us fans are "rabid" and pissed at what has happened this year because of what took place just 24 games ago...a trip to the Super Bowl. Expectations have been raised & many feel the Redbirds had finally turned to so-called corner. Reality would have to look at this season as a rebuilding year given this status of the QB situation & uncertainty on defense. The natural fan reaction is to question the coach first & then the players. I'm not giving up on the HC because I think he can still lead us to the promised land...again!!! I think coaches, players & fans are frustrated about what we've seen on the field this year. As I said, expectations have been raised.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think many of us fans are "rabid" and pissed at what has happened this year because of what took place just 24 games ago...a trip to the Super Bowl. Expectations have been raised & many feel the Redbirds had finally turned to so-called corner. Reality would have to look at this season as a rebuilding year given this status of the QB situation & uncertainty on defense. The natural fan reaction is to question the coach first & then the players. I'm not giving up on the HC because I think he can still lead us to the promised land...again!!! I think coaches, players & fans are frustrated about what we've seen on the field this year. As I said, expectations have been raised.

Yeah that is great, and understood.

Again, question the coach, question the players. No problem.

But if those accusations are untrue and outrageious then prepared to hear about it.

If I said Derek Anderson just needs a little more time, and his passes are accurate but it is all the WR's fault, I would justifiably be torn apart and appropriately so.

Now with the "Plight of the Pissed" off and the arrogance ? Sorry, enough is enough.

I can understand frustration, venting, etc., etc. I have done it, and will do it again I am sure of it.

But come on there is more to football than wins and loses. There is some reality that we are in fact Cardinals fans, lets have some sense about that fact.

Furthermore, there is no denying that there are a lot of fans that complained all throughout 2008 and 2009. Now are really laying it on thick in 2010.

I mean, even Cheesebeef, enjoyed 2008 and 2009, and he is dead to rights brutal on this team when warranted. Same goes for K9.

Fans who complain all the time, do exactly that. How in the heck do they know what is bad, if they have no idea what is good ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think many of us fans are "rabid"

I prefer the term loyal.

 

[Buckybird]

I prefer the term loyal.

Yeah, when we finally hoist the Super Bowl trophy we all better get a replica from Mr B for all the $$$ & trips to other NFL cities we've watched these guys in.

I want a ring Dammit!!!