The Holiday Bowl Thread

[GSP Insomniac]

ASU football at its finest. I stayed up until 2am for this. I don't know who I am more disappointed in. Graham, the Team or me.....

 

[devilalum]

ASU football at its finest. I stayed up until 2am for this. I don't know who I am more disappointed in. Graham, the Team or me.....

This

They should have just declined the invitation if they weren't gonna show up.

Really disappointing! TT is not a very good team.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Great showing by TT and their coaches. They came ready to play.

ASU blew this one with their lack of preparation and their mindset coming into the game which showed on the field big time. I belatedly read today that Davon Coleman didn't play due to violation of team rules. What's up with that.

Very embarrasing.

On the glass half full side, this will put something under ASU's skin during the offseason and hopefully serve as a learning experience. One I didn't think they would need in several respects, but still.

Coach Graham's post game comments saying he was going to "immediately" address the special teams problems that were "killing us" makes it sounds like someone on the staff is going to get canned. This has been a problem all year long.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Great showing by TT and their coaches. They came ready to play.



ASU blew this one with their lack of preparation and their mindset coming into the game which showed on the field big time. I belatedly read today that Davon Coleman didn't play due to violation of team rules. What's up with that.



Very embarrasing.



On the glass half full side, this will put something under ASU's skin during the offseason and hopefully serve as a learning experience. One I didn't think they would need in several respects, but still.



Coach Graham's post game comments saying he was going to "immediately" address the special teams problems that were "killing us" makes it sounds like someone on the staff is going to get canned. This has been a problem all year long.

Was wondering what happened to Coleman... What a joke...
The issue with Special Teams is not the coaching. We simply don't have the talent - which is amazing to think that a school like ASU can't find a qualified FBS punter...
The reality is, while this team achieved solid success this season, they lack top tier talent across the entire team. Aside from Sutton (who I don't believe will be an impact player on Sundays) and Bradford, there are no other players anywhere on this team that will play in the NFL... None that will even get drafted.
So the success they enjoyed this season came as a result of a monumental coaching effort from Graham... Which makes their performance tonight all the more puzzling.
Next year will be year 3 for Graham. The team will now be "his" team for all intents and purposes... Gonna be very interesting to see if they are able to improve upon a season where they won the Pac-12 South. I really don't see them being in a position to beat Stanford, or even Oregon for that matter... So, what then will "improvement" really look like?? I mean, they stand a very good chance of not defending their Pac-12 South Championship crown... And even if they did, they will get bounced again by Stanford or Oregon...
I have serious doubts about the offense and Norvell. Is the system and the coach able to step up in huge games? Tonight wasn't "huge" and yet they looked completely overmatched... I said all year that our lack of a game-breaker on offense would kill us. We looked like we were stuck in molasses compared to the top-tier speed of Texas Tech. We have below average speed at WR and at RB. Hard to be successful in big games when playing top-tier talented teams when you lack speed at those positions...
Should be a very interesting season in 2014 for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Was wondering what happened to Coleman... What a joke...
The issue with Special Teams is not the coaching. We simply don't have the talent - which is amazing to think that a school like ASU can't find a qualified FBS punter...
The reality is, while this team achieved solid success this season, they lack top tier talent across the entire team. Aside from Sutton (who I don't believe will be an impact player on Sundays) and Bradford, there are no other players anywhere on this team that will play in the NFL... None that will even get drafted.
So the success they enjoyed this season came as a result of a monumental coaching effort from Graham... Which makes their performance tonight all the more puzzling.
Next year will be year 3 for Graham. The team will now be "his" team for all intents and purposes... Gonna be very interesting to see if they are able to improve upon a season where they won the Pac-12 South. I really don't see them being in a position to beat Stanford, or even Oregon for that matter... So, what then will "improvement" really look like?? I mean, they stand a very good chance of not defending their Pac-12 South Championship crown... And even if they did, they will get bounced again by Stanford or Oregon...
I have serious doubts about the offense and Norvell. Is the system and the coach able to step up in huge games? Tonight wasn't "huge" and yet they looked completely overmatched... I said all year that our lack of a game-breaker on offense would kill us. We looked like we were stuck in molasses compared to the top-tier speed of Texas Tech. We have below average speed at WR and at RB. Hard to be successful in big games when playing top-tier talented teams when you lack speed at those positions...
Should be a very interesting season in 2014 for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Coleman deal is part of Graham's discipline deal. You have to take the good with the bad on that. He kept Bradford out of a game earlier in the season.

I think you are overstating a lot of things in your posts about the game, including the lack of talent, etc., but that is understandable in light of the poor performance. For example, I have been extremely impressed with Cornerback Irabor all season long. You hardly ever hear him mentioned since he has his man covered and they don't throw at him. I didn't see all of the game last night, but it looked like Nelson was the one getting burned.

As far as the coaching, last night was partially due to ASU's extreme emphasis on the Rose Bowl. That is the big goal and it is hammered into the players. So if they don't get in, there is a natural let down. Not sure how to handle that but I am sure they will address it next year.

Just talked to a friend this morning who is a huge Oregon fan. He says they have virtually their whole starting offense and defense coming back next year. If we manage to get to the Pac 12 title game, we are going to have our hands full again for sure.

I think Graham and Norvell both need to come up with some variety to their basic offense and defensive sets. On D, we blitz virtually every play. TT had that figured out and kept burning us over the top through out the first half. But can't we build in a first half adjustment to something more like we deployed against Oregon State to shut down their passing game? Seems like we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't working.

And Norvell's playcalling was ridiculously predictable. No apparent changes when we weren't moving the ball in the first half.

Going into a bowl game there are weeks to prepare. You have to bring something different to the table.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The Coleman deal is part of Graham's discipline deal. You have to take the good with the bad on that. He kept Bradford out of a game earlier in the season.

I think you are overstating a lot of things in your posts about the game, including the lack of talent, etc., but that is understandable in light of the poor performance. For example, I have been extremely impressed with Cornerback Irabor all season long. You hardly ever hear him mentioned since he has his man covered and they don't throw at him. I didn't see all of the game last night, but it looked like Nelson was the one getting burned.

As far as the coaching, last night was partially due to ASU's extreme emphasis on the Rose Bowl. That is the big goal and it is hammered into the players. So if they don't get in, there is a natural let down. Not sure how to handle that but I am sure they will address it next year.

Just talked to a friend this morning who is a huge Oregon fan. He says they have virtually their whole starting offense and defense coming back next year. If we manage to get to the Pac 12 title game, we are going to have our hands full again for sure.

I think Graham and Norvell both need to come up with some variety to their basic offense and defensive sets. On D, we blitz virtually every play. TT had that figured out and kept burning us over the top through out the first half. But can't we build in a first half adjustment to something more like we deployed against Oregon State to shut down their passing game? Seems like we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't working.

And Norvell's playcalling was ridiculously predictable. No apparent changes when we weren't moving the ball in the first half.

Going into a bowl game there are weeks to prepare. You have to bring something different to the table.

LOL... you essentially agreed with just about everything I said!

FWIW, Irabor might be the only other potential player to make it to the next level. Can you name another?? Anyone from the offensive side of the ball??
Can you counter my points about lack of speed on the offensive side of the ball?? Aside from Foster, who is fast but compartively slower than so many other speedsters at this level, who else?? It's a serious problem - particularly at the WR position.

And as for the coaching - again, you basically agreed with my comments. The playcalling and system on both sides of the ball was largely vanilla and predictable all year long. Coaching and precise execution - particularly from Kelly - is what led to the success. However, better teams like Stanford and Oregon will destroy that type of mundane system...(obviously, Stanford did just that).

IMHO, it was premature to crown Norvell and make him a "Deputy", pumping his compensation to $750k... He really, really needs to earn that bump in 2014. He seriously needs to develop a much more creative scheme that provides way more versatility and diversity... The strict reliance on the read option, particularly with the serious lack of speed, will not lead to the type of success Graham says he's after...

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

LOL... you essentially agreed with just about everything I said!

FWIW, Irabor might be the only other potential player to make it to the next level. Can you name another?? Anyone from the offensive side of the ball??
Can you counter my points about lack of speed on the offensive side of the ball?? Aside from Foster, who is fast but compartively slower than so many other speedsters at this level, who else?? It's a serious problem - particularly at the WR position.

And as for the coaching - again, you basically agreed with my comments. The playcalling and system on both sides of the ball was largely vanilla and predictable all year long. Coaching and precise execution - particularly from Kelly - is what led to the success. However, better teams like Stanford and Oregon will destroy that type of mundane system...(obviously, Stanford did just that).

IMHO, it was premature to crown Norvell and make him a "Deputy", pumping his compensation to $750k... He really, really needs to earn that bump in 2014. He seriously needs to develop a much more creative scheme that provides way more versatility and diversity... The strict reliance on the read option, particularly with the serious lack of speed, will not lead to the type of success Graham says he's after...

Well for starters, I am no NFL scout for sure but I disagree with your statements that Jaleen Strong and Taylor Kelly will not play at the next level. Strong may end up leaving after next year. I expect Kelly to have an even better and more consistent year next year and be drafted to become someone's back up QB. I wouldn't be surprised if an OT lineman or 2 make it to to the NFL.

Isn't our kicker a Freshman? And he looks like he has a bright future as well as do several of our defensive players.

I am not saying that our players are going to be All pros at the next level, but it is overly pessimistic to say that no one is going to make it to the NFL.

Unless we get out there with a stopwatch, its anybody's guess as to actual speed. For example, I know you have said Foster is slow. The guys on the broadcast last night were remarking on how fast he was. You say the whole team is slow, but I think you would be surprised by some of the 40 times of our DB's and perhaps some of our receivers as well.

 

[gmabel830]

You must be registered for see images attach

What was that you were saying?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well for starters, I am no NFL scout for sure but I disagree with your statements that Jaleen Strong and Taylor Kelly will not play at the next level. Strong may end up leaving after next year. I expect Kelly to have an even better and more consistent year next year and be drafted to become someone's back up QB. I wouldn't be surprised if an OT lineman or 2 make it to to the NFL.

Isn't our kicker a Freshman? And he looks like he has a bright future as well as do several of our defensive players.

I am not saying that our players are going to be All pros at the next level, but it is overly pessimistic to say that no one is going to make it to the NFL.

Unless we get out there with a stopwatch, its anybody's guess as to actual speed. For example, I know you have said Foster is slow. The guys on the broadcast last night were remarking on how fast he was. You say the whole team is slow, but I think you would be surprised by some of the 40 times of our DB's and perhaps some of our receivers as well.

Never said Foster is slow... Just that is relation to true speed guys, he is slower...
I would be very surprised to see Kelly suiting up in any capacity on Sundays. Strong? Maybe not as surprised as I would be with Kelly, but I honestly don't see him having any type of impact in the NFL...
As for the kicker... C'mon man... The guy can't even handle kickoff duties...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

What was that you were saying?

You must be registered for see images

Yawn.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

You must be registered for see images

Yawn.

Somehow it seems that we had just enough team speed to blow out the Wildcats. ;-)

 

[82CardsGrad]

Somehow it seems that we had just enough team speed to blow out the Wildcats. ;-)

And not enough to prevent being blown out by Stanford twice, Texas Tech once and losing to Notre Dame...
As you know, I'm a fan of the Devils and Graham! I'm just being realistic and rational...

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

And not enough to prevent being blown out by Stanford twice, Texas Tech once and losing to Notre Dame...
As you know, I'm a fan of the Devils and Graham! I'm just being realistic and rational...

Me too, and I don't think I am being irrational here, so much of this is subjective that it is not rational to be so pessimistic. LOL.

I would also add Grice to the NFL list. Its going to be a tough go with his injury, but I expect him to make an NFL team.

Sure, we have seen a lot of speed demons on other teams, but I don't chalk those losses up to a lack of speed. Stanford was more of a lack of brawn, we were manhandled. TT and Notre Dame, outcoached and not prepared mentally for the big stage.

I haven't found a list of 40 times for ASU, but I did find out that Randall runs a 4.40 in the 40. Do you think that is slow?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Me too, and I don't think I am being irrational here, so much of this is subjective that it is not rational to be so pessimistic. LOL.



I would also add Grice to the NFL list. Its going to be a tough go with his injury, but I expect him to make an NFL team.



Sure, we have seen a lot of speed demons on other teams, but I don't chalk those losses up to a lack of speed. Stanford was more of a lack of brawn, we were manhandled. TT and Notre Dame, outcoached and not prepared mentally for the big stage.



I haven't found a list of 40 times for ASU, but I did find out that Randall runs a 4.40 in the 40. Do you think that is slow?

Randall doesn't play offense... And while we were indeed out muscled by Stanford and Notre Dame, and badly out coached by Tech, the fact that we don't have a game breaking threat on offense allowed Stanford and Notre Dame to stack the box and blitz us to shreds...
A legit speed threat could and should neutralize some of that.
As for Grice, I love the guy... But injury or not, he is not NFL caliber material. Very nice college player - sorta like Strong. But a notch or two below NFL caliber material....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[82CardsGrad]

By comparison, Michigan State is showing how to be effective against the Stanford defense. Cook is a much better passer than Kelly, and the Spartans wide outs are 10x better/faster than any of ASU's WR's...
Of course, the Spartans online is doing a much better job than ASU's did in both of their games...
IMO, Kelly and our lack of speed on offense is not anywhere close to being the recipe for success against Stanford, and Michigan State's performance thru 2 1/2 quarters is bearing it out...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[82CardsGrad]

Should also mention that Michigan State's defense - especially their linebackers and secondary are tremendous tacklers... Unlike the Devils, Gafney has had a much more difficult time breaking tackles and running for big gains.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[devilalum]

And not enough to prevent being blown out by Stanford twice, Texas Tech once and losing to Notre Dame...
As you know, I'm a fan of the Devils and Graham! I'm just being realistic and rational...

ASU and Oregon both struggled against Stanford because of their size and physicality. This is the same reason that Oregon got spanked by Alabama a couple of years ago. To get to the next level the Devils are gonna have to get bigger and stronger up front.

 

[82CardsGrad]

ASU and Oregon both struggled against Stanford because of their size and physicality. This is the same reason that Oregon got spanked by Alabama a couple of years ago. To get to the next level the Devils are gonna have to get bigger and stronger up front.

I actually think ASU is bigger than Michigan State up front! The problem is complex... However, it's crystal clear that Cook is a far better passer than Kelly, and Fowler, Kings and slippery are 100x faster and better than any 3 or 4 ASU wideouts...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[devilalum]

I actually think ASU is bigger than Michigan State up front! The problem is complex... However, it's crystal clear that Cook is a far better passer than Kelly, and Fowler, Kings and slippery are 100x faster and better than any 3 or 4 ASU wideouts...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that the Devils need to get faster receivers that don't DROP TOUCHDOWN PASSES but against Stanford they got manhandled.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I agree that the Devils need to get faster receivers that don't DROP TOUCHDOWN PASSES but against Stanford they got manhandled.

They got manhandled largely because Stanford never felt the passing game was a legit threat. They crashed the box on almost every play.... In two games, we never made them think about our passing game... Ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Broseph]

And just watched Mich St beat Stanford and the Spartans were able to match Stanfords physicality. Mich St would of destroyed ASU most likely as they are even more physical than Stanford is. Losing to TT (who got absolutely destroyed in their last 5 games) was a disgrace. ASU is still far from being an elite football school. They are an above average program and that is it until they can show me they can win a big game or beat a top 10 team.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

They got manhandled largely because Stanford never felt the passing game was a legit threat. They crashed the box on almost every play.... In two games, we never made them think about our passing game... Ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are you talking about? Kelly threw for 367 yards and 3 TD's in the first game. And Strong, the receiver you think is so sub-par had 12 catches for 168 yards and a TD in the first Stanford game.

 

[82CardsGrad]

What are you talking about? Kelly threw for 367 yards and 3 TD's in the first game. And Strong, the receiver you think is so sub-par had 12 catches for 168 yards and a TD in the first Stanford game.

What am "I" talking about?? LOL...

How many of those 367 yards came in the second half/4th quarter?? Same for Strong?
And what happened to Kelly and Strong in the second game??

Again, I am a fan of ASU. I think Kelly is a very good college QB (mainly due to the system he is in however...). I think Strong is an average wideout.
And my point still stands... ASU has a serious lack of speed on offense. They play fast. But they aren't a fast offensive unit by any stretch...

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

What am "I" talking about?? LOL...

How many of those 367 yards came in the second half/4th quarter?? Same for Strong?
And what happened to Kelly and Strong in the second game??

Again, I am a fan of ASU. I think Kelly is a very good college QB (mainly due to the system he is in however...). I think Strong is an average wideout.
And my point still stands... ASU has a serious lack of speed on offense. They play fast. But they aren't a fast offensive unit by any stretch...

Not sure what you are laughing at. True to form, your language is way over the top pessimistic toward ASU. Your word choice was "In two games, we never made them think about our passing game... Ever". You were blatantly wrong as I pointed out with the stats. Its not necessary that I throw in that Kelly threw a 65 yard touchdown pass in the first half, but there you go.

Now you are saying Strong is an average wideout? Wow. This was his first year in the bigtime and he didn't even have the benefit of Spring practice as I recall. He still put up over 70 catches for over 1,100 yards and 7 TD's. That put him at 25th in the nation in his first year. No one on Michigan State did better than that by the way.

And just to further the point, how do you know that Michigan State's receivers are faster than Strong? Do you have 40 times or are you speculating? Your speed assessments are your subjective opinions. So I really don't know why you are throwing them around so much.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Not sure what you are laughing at. True to form, your language is way over the top pessimistic toward ASU. Your word choice was "In two games, we never made them think about our passing game... Ever". You were blatantly wrong as I pointed out with the stats. Its not necessary that I throw in that Kelly threw a 65 yard touchdown pass in the first half, but there you go.

Now you are saying Strong is an average wideout? Wow. This was his first year in the bigtime and he didn't even have the benefit of Spring practice as I recall. He still put up over 70 catches for over 1,100 yards and 7 TD's. That put him at 25th in the nation in his first year. No one on Michigan State did better than that by the way.

And just to further the point, how do you know that Michigan State's receivers are faster than Strong? Do you have 40 times or are you speculating? Your speed assessments are your subjective opinions. So I really don't know why you are throwing them around so much.

OK... I'll simply leave it here. As always, time will tell.. and truthfully, I hope you are more right than me. I am highly suspect to say the least, but hey, I've been known to be wrong a time or two...