The Legend of Josh McCown`

[conraddobler]

The QB can be a leader. But I think it depends on the team. Recently there have been QB's that have been sucessful without being the straight out leader of a team. Trent Difler with the Ravens and Brad Johnson with the Bucs also come to mind. They didn't have to take the load soley on their shoulders.

However, if your only source of leadership is coming from the QB. Then you are putting yourself in a potentially bad situation. Recent examples of this are Peyton Manning's inability to get to the 'big game' and Green Bays recent struggles (I wonder how bad the Pack will be when Favre retires). When the only 'head' of your team is cut off like with the Colts in Manning and Favre with Green Bay... Big problems are coming your way.

One reason I think the Patriots have been so sucessful is because they have leaders on both sides of the ball. Tom Brady is great. But It doesn't ALL fall on him to carry that team. If he struggles, they can turn to other people because the Patriots regard them selves as a TEAM. In which everyone is responsible for performance. Tom Brady is the conductor, not the magician (sp?). And I think that's what I think Green is trying to achieve with McCown.

Considering his age and experince. Maybe people are expecting too much with Josh in regards to leadership... Considering that he is still trying to prove that he is a good enough player himself to be in the NFL.

I agree with all of that.

I am dissapointed in the result and Josh did not play perfectly but he did well enough to win 90% of the time today.

I just don't see why he is drawing the full force of this awful loss.

 

[Redsz]

Thanks Conrad.

I think people are just trying to find the reason for the loss.

Wouldn't it be great if we could just change one thing and we won every game? Unfortunatley this loss is contributed to alot of things so no quick fix is out there.

We will get better though. Even though most of us feel like we have been kicked in the nuts today.

 

[conraddobler]

Thanks Conrad.

I think people are just trying to find the reason for the loss.

Wouldn't it be great if we could just change one thing and we won every game? Unfortunatley this loss is contributed to alot of things so no quick fix is out there.

We will get better though. Even though most of us feel like we have been kicked in the nuts today.

I see a lot of reason for hope.

I don't get depressed as long by stuff like this anymore because I know it's just growing pains.

Growing pains are still pains but it isn't utter despair.

Even after this game I still wouldn't trade teams with the 49ers. We are a young team with up and comming talent they would kill for.

They won today but there are a whole lot of butt kickings comming down the pike for them for several years.

Young teams lose games like this because they start to believe their own press clippings.

Our defense vaunted as it was before this game just found out it takes 4 quarters to win a football game. They will adjust and be better for it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the only thing you may have got right there would be in your expertise on what constitutes a feeble mind.

good old tango. always count on you to make it personal and insult.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

McCown wasn't the reason we lost this game. To put all the blame on him isn't reasonable. There were places where we should of won this game. But it didn't work out. I'm as pissed as anyone.

To say McCown has a feeble mind is pure BS. I have met people who are great football players but aren't the brightest. You can question McCown's football intelligence, but to say that he is out right stupid is way off base.

perhaps i should have re-phrased it to poor football mind and feeble heart. but then y'all would tredge up the fact that he wants it so bad he cried last week. what it comes down to is i think his football smarts suck and he has no mental toughness. THAT's what i meant by feeble mind. nowhere did i say he was "stupid." i have no idea what his level of intelligence may be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

28 points should have been enough to win this game. This loss is placed solely on the defense and special teams because special teams allowed a TD on a punt return. When you have a 12 point lead with a little over 5 minutes left in the 4th. quarter, it is up to the defense to finish it off and win the game for you. It didn't happen.

not entirely true. the good teams have an offense that strings together ball control, clock eating, drives that keeps the defense off the field. our offense failed to do that. it's a combination. let's not make mistakes here, this was a TOTAL collapse on the part of the whole team. coaching included.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Josh did well today, well enough to win. People don't like him and that's fine but to twist this game into his fault is just beyond stretching it.

see, and this is where i think you guys twist things. i don't dislike josh. i'm pulling for him to be an adequate nfl qb and then a good one. i just don't see any growth. he's not a leader. he doesn't WIN games. and when the pressure is on, other than ONE game (minny), he retreats into his shell.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There were a few times when looking at the kid that I thought his mannerisims were strange.

He has one very public comeback to his credit when it really mattered to him so he is capable of it.

My only response to your observations is that yes you might be right or he got the deer in the headlights syndrome just like everyone else did.

Really the whole defense just collapsed in a here we go again way and to single the dude out this early in his career is just jumping the gun IMO.

I simply don't know about the guy yet. I see the same things you do but maybe because I am older, I'm 38, I am more inclined to believe it takes different people different times to mature.

Josh is still a kid, the announcer were mentioning him glowingly all game and pointed out several times how he was reading blitzes better and throwing to where the defender had vacated.

I think he is getting more knowlegeable every game but our whole team isn't some offensive masterpiece he is ruining. The problems are different people on different plays.

What you see as wrong with him I understand, I really do and if he fails it will be for the reasons you dislike him. It will be more of a weird intangible thing that he will lack that will do him in.

Honestly it's a catch 22, I don't think you can start King because this year happens to be Josh's audition for the job. You really don't want to let Josh get benched for this now start King let Josh go and find out that he did have what it takes and take someone else to the Superbowl.

You simply have to ride him out and make that call at the end of the year that is all I am saying.

i actually agree with this post 100%. but none of that lessens my misgivings about mccown. i'm just not seeing the mental toughness.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just don't see why he is drawing the full force of this awful loss.

for me it's not the full force of this loss, but rather, the cumulative force of all the losses. if you see my thread about losing on all four fronts you'll see i'm not singling mccown out, but including him amongst our defense and special teams failures as well.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not one to give up quickly on a young player especially when I think this team is so young and can grow together but...I am sick and tired of an inefficient offense, I am sick of poor passes, I am sick of poor decisions and I'd really love for once to see our WRs get some significant yards after catch.

.

Speaking of YAC, there was one drive where Fitz caught consecutive dump passes. On the first one he caught the ball and dove to the ground with no effort to run, even the DB looked surprised. Next play he caught it and turned it up for the first down, I would LIKE to think that the reason he did that was someone, in the huddle, or from the sideline, yelled "hey we're paying you a HELL of a lot of money can you at least TRY to get some YAC?"

After that he played great but I gotta admit when he flopped on that first play I was fuming.