The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Amazon Prime)

[ajcardfan]

You want to talk about violating canon? That would be a MAJOR violation. I can't see the Tolkien estate being ok with that.

It's ok to disagree. If it is him, then why bother with the hints? Just say it's him. And even in the Third Age, he wasn't some all-powerful being. It wasn't even until he "died" that he became The White.

In the credits there is a Tolkien name (can't remember who). I assume he is mostly making sure the story doesn't veer too far off.

 

[Chaplin]

Think about how anticlimactic it will be if say in the middle of season 2, they finally reveal for certain that the stranger is Gandalf. I'm just not buying it.

The hints you are all referencing are so on the nose, I question why they didn't overt just call him Gandalf and be done with it. Not revealing for sure whether he's Gandalf or not is classic redirection.

 

[Chaplin]

In the credits there is a Tolkien name (can't remember who). I assume he is mostly making sure the story doesn't veer too far off.

I think it's Christopher and he's a consultant on the show.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Think about how anticlimactic it will be if say in the middle of season 2, they finally reveal for certain that the stranger is Gandalf. I'm just not buying it.

The hints you are all referencing are so on the nose, I question why they didn't overt just call him Gandalf and be done with it. Not revealing for sure whether he's Gandalf or not is classic redirection.

The big question the entire season is Who Is Sauron. The Stranger was a consistent red herring they played that question with. I mean… literally, they named him Sauron in the cold open and kept playing that beat for half the episode.

They couldn’t play with that question nearly as well if the one guy who had powers was known to be Gandalf. Stranger or Halrand (or whatever his name was) were the two biggest characters suspected.

I actually don’t think they believe at this point a Gandalf reveal is even being played for misdirection. They’re winking at the audience with his last line of the season “Follow your nose.” I think all of this is now just a part of his story arc to get there.

What are they getting by not revealing he’s another Wizard? I’d think in a show for the masses, the reveal he’s the Brown Wizard would fall flat on it’s face. I have no idea who that is and I read all the books and loved the movie.

Maybe he’s Sauruman? He was good before eventually turning to Sauron, right? I guess that could be a redirect, but the character has been shaded so close to Gandalf that I think that would be a womp womp moment for most people.

 

[Chaplin]

The big question the entire season is Who Is Sauron. The Stranger was a consistent red herring they played that question with. I mean… literally, they named him Sauron in the cold open and kept playing that beat for half the episode.

They couldn’t play with that question nearly as well if the one guy who had powers was known to be Gandalf. Stranger or Halrand (or whatever his name was) were the two biggest characters suspected.

I actually don’t think they believe at this point a Gandalf reveal is even being played for misdirection. They’re winking at the audience with his last line of the season “Follow your nose.” I think all of this is now just a part of his story arc to get there.

What are they getting by not revealing he’s another Wizard? I’d think in a show for the masses, the reveal he’s the Brown Wizard would fall flat on it’s face. I have no idea who that is and I read all the books and loved the movie.

Maybe he’s Sauruman? He was good before eventually turning to Sauron, right? I guess that could be a redirect, but the character has been shaded so close to Gandalf that I think that would be a womp womp moment for most people.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't fit the canon. Gandalf doesn't even come to Middle Earth until the Third Age, so how is he there during the Second Age? I will grant that he is likely alive at this time, but nowhere near this incarnation. From what I can tell, he wasn't even technically an Istar (wizard) until coming to Middle Earth (again in the Third Age). And pretty sure he never traveled by meteor.

I don't know enough about Saruman to speculate, I actually don't figure The Stranger as Saruman. He doesn't really seem to care one way or another about hobbits, which disqualifies him, IMO.

Look, I get it, as a fan it's super simple to just say he's Gandalf and be done with it. But the hints are so in-your-face, it doesn't make sense to me that didn't just confirm it. And so what if the "Who Is Sauron" question is the crux of the series? The whole thing with the Stranger has always been Plot B regardless, and for the most part isn't really related to the "Who is Sauron" plot, even with the 3 Rhunic weirdos saying he was.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's all well and good, but it doesn't fit the canon. Gandalf doesn't even come to Middle Earth until the Third Age, so how is he there during the Second Age? I will grant that he is likely alive at this time, but nowhere near this incarnation. From what I can tell, he wasn't even technically an Istar (wizard) until coming to Middle Earth (again in the Third Age). And pretty sure he never traveled by meteor.

I don't know enough about Saruman to speculate, I actually don't figure The Stranger as Saruman. He doesn't really seem to care one way or another about hobbits, which disqualifies him, IMO.

Look, I get it, as a fan it's super simple to just say he's Gandalf and be done with it. But the hints are so in-your-face, it doesn't make sense to me that didn't just confirm it. And so what if the "Who Is Sauron" question is the crux of the series? The whole thing with the Stranger has always been Plot B regardless, and for the most part isn't really related to the "Who is Sauron" plot, even with the 3 Rhunic weirdos saying he was.

Chap, who is Sauron isn’t the crux of the whole series… it was the crux of the season. And if you’re going to have a mystery about the identity of a main character, you’re going to need to raise questions about other char… eh, never mind.

Guess we’ll see as the show unfolds.

 

[SpokaneCardfan]

I guess I'm glad I don't know much about the canon of LOR because I am really enjoying this series. As they say Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess I'm glad I don't know much about the canon of LOR because I am really enjoying this series. As they say Ignorance is bliss.

A good example of why the things some of us think are blatantly obvious are so to us, but not to the masses the show is trying to connect with.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Wizard:

Spoiler: Spoiler

It can't be Gandalf as he doesn't arrive in physical form before the 3rd age. According to the books Tolkien there were five original Istari (a.k.a. wizards) who were sent to Middle-earth. Three of them arrived around the same time. I believe there was reference of two Blue Wizards in the Second Age.

I am fuzzy on details now that I think about it but I found this.

"Only two Maiar came: Curumo (later named Saruman) sent by Aulë, and Alatar (Morinehtar), sent by Oromë. Manwë summoned Olórin (later named Gandalf), asking if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin claimed he was too weak and that he feared Sauron. However, Manwë said that was all the more reason to go, and he commanded him go, whereupon Varda said, "Not as the third." Yavanna asked Curumo to take Aiwendil also (later named Radagast), and Alatar took his friend Pallando (Rómestámo) as his companion. They were forbidden to dominate the free peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power and if they deviated from their appointed task their powers and memory of Valinor would begin to wane."

"The Wizards were known by various names and were arrayed in different colors. Of those who came to Middle-earth, sent by the Valar, five are known, the Heren Istarion (Order of Wizards). After arriving in Middle-earth, the two Blue Wizards apparently went east before the War of the Ring; whether they played a part in the events of that war is unknown."

"Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the East... who both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have... outnumbered the West."—J.R.R. Tolkien"

That seems to indicate that it's one of the Blue Wizards. Tolkien wrote very little of the Blue wizards which is why I think it's one of them. It gives the writers freedom to write around them. He only mentions they wore blue clothing and were sent to the Eastern and Southern regions of Middle-earth in order to subdue some of Sauron’s support in those lands. Also, it might lead to darker stories. They don't rise to the legend of the others which means they likely don't survive the 2nd Age.

So, it would seem to be a huge break in canon if they make it Gandalf. It would be the first huge break in canon. I don't see them going there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Wizard:

Spoiler: Spoiler

It can't be Gandalf as he doesn't arrive in physical form before the 3rd age. According to the books Tolkien there were five original Istari (a.k.a. wizards) who were sent to Middle-earth. Three of them arrived around the same time (Sauron, Saruman, and Radagast). Followed by the last two in the Second Age which were Blue Wizards.

I think he is one of the Blue Wizards. Tolkien wrote very little of the Blue wizards which is why I think it's one of them. It gives the writers freedom to write around them. He only mentions they wore blue clothing and were sent to the Eastern and Southern regions of Middle-earth in order to subdue some of Sauron’s support in those lands. Once more because we hear little of them, the chances are they don't survive the 2nd Age and never mean to rise to the same level of legend as the others.

So, it would seem to be a huge break in canon. It would be the first huge break in canon. I don't see them going there.

There’s a bunch of huge breaks in canon already.

 

[Covert Rain]

There’s a bunch of huge breaks in canon already.

I have not seen any huge breaks in canon. This seems to be taking a similar approach to the movies and making slight changes for this adaptation. I have seen NOTHING the size of that kind of change. What are you referring to?

I think it's Christopher and he's a consultant on the show.

I think it's Simon.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have not seen any huge breaks in canon. This seems to be taking a similar approach to the movies and making slight changes for this adaptation. I have seen NOTHING the size of that kind of change. What are you referring to?


I think it's Simon.

How about how all of the rings of power were made in the first place and who made them? It’s the basis for the entire story.

Rings of Power's Sauron Reveal Breaks LOTR Canon - But Does That Really Matter?

With Season 1 over, fans finally know Sauron's identity on The Rings of Power -- but some fans aren't happy that the reveal breaks LOTR canon again.

www.cbr.com

Three elven rings? How the 'Rings of Power' finale changes LOTR canon

Here's how the Season 1 finale of 'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' seriously changes Tolkien canon by ending with the creation of the Three Elven Rings.

www.inverse.com

I don’t really care about the change… and to be honest, didn’t even know about it. And didn’t even know Gandalf didn’t show up until the 3rd age. And I’m guessing a boatload of others don’t either… or don’t care. But you asked for one and the one I gave is a pretty big one considering the entire show and story from start to finish is all about the rings and how Sauron’s one ring came to rule them all.

 

[ajcardfan]

How about how all of the rings of power were made in the first place and who made them? It’s the basis for the entire story.

Rings of Power's Sauron Reveal Breaks LOTR Canon - But Does That Really Matter?

With Season 1 over, fans finally know Sauron's identity on The Rings of Power -- but some fans aren't happy that the reveal breaks LOTR canon again.

www.cbr.com

Three elven rings? How the 'Rings of Power' finale changes LOTR canon

Here's how the Season 1 finale of 'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' seriously changes Tolkien canon by ending with the creation of the Three Elven Rings.

www.inverse.com

I don’t really care about the change… and to be honest, didn’t even know about it. And didn’t even know Gandalf didn’t show up until the 3rd age. And I’m guessing a boatload of others don’t either… or don’t care. But you asked for one and the one I gave is a pretty big one considering the entire show and story from start to finish is all about the rings and how Sauron’s one ring came to rule them all.

There has to be a coherent story on a realistic scale for a series like this. If this series truly told a linear story completely faithful to the canon, how many episodes would it take?

Just spitballing here.... a buttload.

 

[cardncubfan]

The big question the entire season is Who Is Sauron. The Stranger was a consistent red herring they played that question with. I mean… literally, they named him Sauron in the cold open and kept playing that beat for half the episode.

They couldn’t play with that question nearly as well if the one guy who had powers was known to be Gandalf. Stranger or Halrand (or whatever his name was) were the two biggest characters suspected.

I actually don’t think they believe at this point a Gandalf reveal is even being played for misdirection. They’re winking at the audience with his last line of the season “Follow your nose.” I think all of this is now just a part of his story arc to get there.

What are they getting by not revealing he’s another Wizard? I’d think in a show for the masses, the reveal he’s the Brown Wizard would fall flat on it’s face. I have no idea who that is and I read all the books and loved the movie.

Maybe he’s Sauruman? He was good before eventually turning to Sauron, right? I guess that could be a redirect, but the character has been shaded so close to Gandalf that I think that would be a womp womp moment for most people.

Radagast the Brown is the wizard in the woods in the Hobbit movies. He had a sled pulled by rabbits.

 

[cardncubfan]

After watching the RoP series I re-watched the Hobbit trilogy & I'm now re-watching the LOTR.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Think about how anticlimactic it will be if say in the middle of season 2, they finally reveal for certain that the stranger is Gandalf. I'm just not buying it.

The hints you are all referencing are so on the nose, I question why they didn't overt just call him Gandalf and be done with it. Not revealing for sure whether he's Gandalf or not is classic redirection.

I think this is an odd statement. For more common viewers it would be anticlimactic if the big announcement was someone they never heard of. It would be big if it was someone they knew. The only person that fits that bill is Gandalf.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Radagast the Brown is the wizard in the woods in the Hobbit movies. He had a sled pulled by rabbits.

Oh right. I think I blocked everything from memory from those Hobbit movies. They were awful, by and large.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think this is an odd statement. For more common viewers it would be anticlimactic if the big announcement was someone they never heard of. It would be big if it was someone they knew. The only person that fits that bill is Gandalf.

Bingo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bingo.

I get that it could derail canon. And the writers could certain stray from what’s commonly the template for large audience consumption. It would actually be refreshing. I just don’t think it’s likely.

 

[Covert Rain]

How about how all of the rings of power were made in the first place and who made them? It’s the basis for the entire story.

Rings of Power's Sauron Reveal Breaks LOTR Canon - But Does That Really Matter?

With Season 1 over, fans finally know Sauron's identity on The Rings of Power -- but some fans aren't happy that the reveal breaks LOTR canon again.

www.cbr.com

Three elven rings? How the 'Rings of Power' finale changes LOTR canon

Here's how the Season 1 finale of 'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power' seriously changes Tolkien canon by ending with the creation of the Three Elven Rings.

www.inverse.com

I don’t really care about the change… and to be honest, didn’t even know about it. And didn’t even know Gandalf didn’t show up until the 3rd age. And I’m guessing a boatload of others don’t either… or don’t care. But you asked for one and the one I gave is a pretty big one considering the entire show and story from start to finish is all about the rings and how Sauron’s one ring came to rule them all.

The biggest change is chronology which they said from the start of the show it would be different. They had to compress the second age. They introduced the Three most powerful Rings (Nenya, Narya, and Vilya) which are the most powerful rings next to the ONE RING. The other rings were "lesser". That is canon. The biggest change here seems to be the order in which they were created which is minor. The three rings we watched get forged were the Greater rings.

According to Tolkien, the Three Rings were known as Nenya, Narya, and Vilya. While little is known about their specific powers, the three did contain colored stones that matched the elements they were named after (water, fire, and air)."

"The lesser rings were forged by the elves as essays in the craft of ring-making. These rings were made sometime between S.A. 1200, when Sauron came in disguise to Eregion, and 1500, when they began crafting the greater Rings of Power. Unlike the greater rings, these were round and unadorned, without gems."

We don't even know if the others will be introduced which would make the change above even more minor IMO. That's the basis of the show. The other change is using Mithril for all 3 was a change but again it's minor. IMO, "major" would be something that completely destroys canon. Nobody but diehards, purists will care the order in which they were forged.

 

[Covert Rain]

More numbers. According to Parrot Analytics, ROP audience demand was 34.5 times the demand of the average TV series in the United States. According to Nielsons one of the most watched series ever in TV history. For example, there were 988 million minutes of viewing time in the U.S. during the week of September 12-18.

 

[cardncubfan]

1883 was probably my favorite with this being a close second.

 

[oaken1]

Season 2 starts on the 29th...saw the comiccon clip..looks absolutely amazing..seems they ramped it up.

If you are on the fence, Google the sneak preview from comiccon

 

[Devilmaycare]

It's more non-canon garbage like S1.

 

[ajcardfan]

It's more non-canon garbage like S1.

I love LOTR, all Tolkien, my all time favorite reads. Loved the movies.

But, it's not sacred scripture. Personally, I think it's okay for other writers to use their imagination in that world. IF it's well done, I will watch it. If it isn't, it can go in the junk pile of the first LOTR movie.