The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Amazon Prime)

[TRW]

I like it .

 

[Chaplin]

Points are being proven. This is taking a premature opinion and regardless of whether or not it actually is good, sticking to it.

Outlets that expressed concern from a few stills and seconds-long clips have now changed their mind because they've seen the finished product, and they are working for Amazon? LOL This is sour grapes from people that are using whatever poor reasoning they thought they had now that the show is out.

And Covert is absolutely right, both the main problems people had before the show premiered have been pretty much debunked, and now it's something completely different that makes this a terrible show. Gotcha.

 

[Devilmaycare]

No it isn't. Read the start of this thread. The two primary complaints were the show looked cheap. BUSTED. This show has movie quality visuals like I have never seen on a TV show. The second complaint was that it destroyed canon. BUSTED. It doesn't.

Now many of you are moving the goal post. Now it's "dialogue" and "bought reviews". This could be the best show on TV and people are going to find a way to bash it because the two primary complaints by the naysayers online have been proven wrong.

They broke canon right from the start with the way the elves went to middle earth and that wasn't the only thing. That complaint is not destroyed. I'm not going to argue it with you guys though since your minds are made up that there's nothing wrong and everyone that's complain is toxic fandom. If you're not going to stick to the source material then make a new property instead of trying to leech onto the existing fandom. We're going to complain when you do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They broke canon right from the start with the way the elves went to middle earth and that wasn't the only thing. That complaint is not destroyed. I'm not going to argue it with you guys though since your minds are made up that there's nothing wrong and everyone that's complain is toxic fandom. If you're not going to stick to the source material then make a new property instead of trying to leech onto the existing fandom. We're going to complain when you do.

I actually want to apologize for the tact I’ve taken the longer this thread has gone on. Even though I don’t understand the reticence to this Rings adaptation that you and others have, it’s a bummer that it isn’t working for you and I don’t need to keep banging on you for that.

My bad there.

I’m gonna watch this week when I get back to LA. Kinda wish I had seen before the glowing reviews because I liked going in with zero expectations.

 

[Chaplin]

I actually want to apologize for the fact I’ve taken the longer this thread has gone on. Even though I don’t understand the reticence to this Rings adaptation that you and others have, it’s a bummer that it isn’t working for you and I don’t need to keep banging on you for that.

My bad there.

I’m gonna watch this week when I get back to LA. Kinda wish I had seen before the glowing reviews because I liked going in with zero expectations.

You haven’t seen any eps yet?

 

[InspectorClouseau]

Better than the shitshow that is the Wheel of Time and that's the best I can say about it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You haven’t seen any eps yet?

No. I’m at my parents this weekend and they won’t watch it and I don’t want to spoil it watching on my iPad or phone. I want to be home, lights turned down, volume up on my flat screen and probably spark a bowl before.

 

[Devilmaycare]

I actually want to apologize for the fact I’ve taken the longer this thread has gone on. Even though I don’t understand the reticence to this Rings adaptation that you and others have, it’s a bummer that it isn’t working for you and I don’t need to keep banging on you for that.

My bad there.

I’m gonna watch this week when I get back to LA. Kinda wish I had seen before the glowing reviews because I liked going in with zero expectations.

All good. And to clarify on my post that you responded to, the "you" in it was the general "you" and not directed at you or Covert. I think the context gave that but that did hit me when I reread it as the quote in your post.

This might be a larger discussion to have, but part of why you might not be understanding it is due to your level of fandom for this and some of the other main franchises. There's a lot of built up frustration in fandom over what's happened to Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Wheel of Time, etc. over the last number of year. Largely at the hands of JJ Abrams and/or people that came from his tree. He's nicknamed The Destroyer of Franchises and the company is known as Bad Reboot for a reason. So there's been trepidation over Rings since it was announced partly due to that. The show runners are from his family tree.

So when all of the news, leaks, and info coming from the production started following along the same lines it threw up red flags and put everyone in defend Tolkien mode. We just want things to stay true to the source material that we've loved for decades if you're going to profit off of us. The feeling that the community has is that these productions want to use us to give them built-in audience but doesn't want to respect the franchises' history.

And now that I've seen it I think it's worse then what I was expecting.

Lol… of course it is.

I was actually thinking about this exchange last night and had been thinking of clarifying what I meant too. Going into the show I was expecting to not like it over how it's handling the lore but that it was going to be a decent show. Basically that if it was "generic fantasy show" it would have been ok but fell due to trying to glom onto the LotR name.

After the first two episode I was disappointed with the writing and some of the acting. I found it to be CW quality instead of $60m/ep on Amazon's flagship show quality. That's the genesis of my comment. It was simply due to some of the elements that I thought were going to be good ending up being a disappointment.

 

[Devilmaycare]

No. I’m at my parents this weekend and they won’t watch it and I don’t want to spoil it watching on my iPad or phone. I want to be home, lights turned down, volume up on my flat screen and probably spark a bowl before.

Olive branch You're welcome to stop by to watch them while you're in town. I have a monster sound system and the 120" screen is running now. Basically my room is IMAX now but I have more low end.

The only caveat would be your Mom. I don't know how strict you are on quarantining when seeing her now and I don't want to do anything to risk her health if she's still in any danger zones. How's she doing now?

 

[Chaplin]

All good. And to clarify on my post that you responded to, the "you" in it was the general "you" and not directed at you or Covert. I think the context gave that but that did hit me when I reread it as the quote in your post.

This might be a larger discussion to have, but part of why you might not be understanding it is due to your level of fandom for this and some of the other main franchises. There's a lot of built up frustration in fandom over what's happened to Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Wheel of Time, etc. over the last number of year. Largely at the hands of JJ Abrams and/or people that came from his tree. He's nicknamed The Destroyer of Franchises and the company is known as Bad Reboot for a reason. So there's been trepidation over Rings since it was announced partly due to that. The show runners are from his family tree.

So when all of the news, leaks, and info coming from the production started following along the same lines it threw up red flags and put everyone in defend Tolkien mode. We just want things to stay true to the source material that we've loved for decades if you're going to profit off of us. The feeling that the community has is that these productions want to use us to give them built-in audience but doesn't want to respect the franchises' history.



I was actually thinking about this exchange last night and had been thinking of clarifying what I meant too. Going into the show I was expecting to not like it over how it's handling the lore but that it was going to be a decent show. Basically that if it was "generic fantasy show" it would have been ok but fell due to trying to glom onto the LotR name.

After the first two episode I was disappointed with the writing and some of the acting. I found it to be CW quality instead of $60m/ep on Amazon's flagship show quality. That's the genesis of my comment. It was simply due to some of the elements that I thought were going to be good ending up being a disappointment.

You are totally cool to have that opinion, but CW quality? Speaking as someone who actually worked at that network, that is unbelievably not the case. CW is far, far lower in quality in virtually every aspect.

I’m curious to know what you think CW quality is. I get you don’t like it, but when you equate it with CW, you should expect that to be called out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All good. And to clarify on my post that you responded to, the "you" in it was the general "you" and not directed at you or Covert. I think the context gave that but that did hit me when I reread it as the quote in your post.

This might be a larger discussion to have, but part of why you might not be understanding it is due to your level of fandom for this and some of the other main franchises. There's a lot of built up frustration in fandom over what's happened to Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Wheel of Time, etc. over the last number of year. Largely at the hands of JJ Abrams and/or people that came from his tree. He's nicknamed The Destroyer of Franchises and the company is known as Bad Reboot for a reason. So there's been trepidation over Rings since it was announced partly due to that. The show runners are from his family tree.

So when all of the news, leaks, and info coming from the production started following along the same lines it threw up red flags and put everyone in defend Tolkien mode. We just want things to stay true to the source material that we've loved for decades if you're going to profit off of us. The feeling that the community has is that these productions want to use us to give them built-in audience but doesn't want to respect the franchises' history.



I was actually thinking about this exchange last night and had been thinking of clarifying what I meant too. Going into the show I was expecting to not like it over how it's handling the lore but that it was going to be a decent show. Basically that if it was "generic fantasy show" it would have been ok but fell due to trying to glom onto the LotR name.

After the first two episode I was disappointed with the writing and some of the acting. I found it to be CW quality instead of $60m/ep on Amazon's flagship show quality. That's the genesis of my comment. It was simply due to some of the elements that I thought were going to be good ending up being a disappointment.

I get the JJ hate and fear. I think he definitely destroyed Star Wars and is basically a copy of a copy of a copy of the great directors from our childhood. But almost everyone in the geek and non geek community seem to agree that he took Star Wars and turned it into complete and utter drek so it’s not like y’all are the canary in the coal mine there.

But you’re also talking to someone who went CRAZY for the LOTR. Read every book, saw every movie multiple times, own the extended versions and loved the entire series so much and knew it so well, that one of my first spec scripts was a complete parody of the series that opened a few doors for me many many moons ago. It was really a love letter to everything Tolkien but told through my voice and perspective, which was super ridiculous/offensively funny back in the day. So, I understand the slavish devotion to the work… and even having a little trepidation, but some of the stuff from geek fandom has just been so over the top about anything that’s come out in the sci fi space the last 7 years or so… I just don’t get.

 

[Devilmaycare]

You are totally cool to have that opinion, but CW quality? Speaking as someone who actually worked at that network, that is unbelievably not the case. CW is far, far lower in quality in virtually every aspect.

I’m curious to know what you think CW quality is. I get you don’t like it, but when you equate it with CW, you should expect that to be called out.

Fair enough, with that I was referring to the writing. When it comes to PQ, AQ, effects, and the different technical merits I agree that they're not even close. Those are also areas that I will give Rings of Power big props on. You can tell they spent money there.

For the writing, with CW quality the rep/joke with them is that they don't do much and are mainly people standing around talking about their feelings and isn't always logically consistent. Stuff that has bother me so far with the writing is stuff like telling us over and over again how adventurous Nori is instead of showing up (this was a little better in E2). Saying the same thing multiple times in a row with slightly different wording, they've done this a ton. Then I've also found the dialog uneven with them trying to sound like Tolkien and also trying to sound more modern. That mix isn't working for me and some of it I found to be cringy.

In story telling I also like it better when the characters drive the plot and not the plot driving the characters. This is one of my issues with the later seasons of GoT too. I want the character to always behave how they normally would and not change only due to the plot needing it for convenience.

 

[Chaplin]

Fair enough, with that I was referring to the writing. When it comes to PQ, AQ, effects, and the different technical merits I agree that they're not even close. Those are also areas that I will give Rings of Power big props on. You can tell they spent money there.

For the writing, with CW quality the rep/joke with them is that they don't do much and are mainly people standing around talking about their feelings and isn't always logically consistent. Stuff that has bother me so far with the writing is stuff like telling us over and over again how adventurous Nori is instead of showing up (this was a little better in E2). Saying the same thing multiple times in a row with slightly different wording, they've done this a ton. Then I've also found the dialog uneven with them trying to sound like Tolkien and also trying to sound more modern. That mix isn't working for me and some of it I found to be cringy.

In story telling I also like it better when the characters drive the plot and not the plot driving the characters. This is one of my issues with the later seasons of GoT too. I want the character to always behave how they normally would and not change only due to the plot needing it for convenience.

Fair enough. But then again, this is Tolkien, who, while having good characters, still writes stories that are more plot driven than character driven. For example, the elves were never that interesting to me in the original trilogy. I love Legolas, but he, like most of the elves, have almost zero personality. I think that is probably why I liked the Dwarf stuff in Ep2 so much.

Spoiler

Ironically, the only character that has driven the plot rather than being driven BY the plot is Galadriel (even if it was only a single time). Her jumping from the ship was her decision and not dictated by the plot (although to be fair, the script does require her to be a main character, so technically, they HAD to have her jump ship). As much as I love my friend Nazanin, Bronwyn is still reacting to what is happening around her, although she showed some balls at the end when she put the Orc head on the butcher block

.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Fair enough, with that I was referring to the writing. When it comes to PQ, AQ, effects, and the different technical merits I agree that they're not even close. Those are also areas that I will give Rings of Power big props on. You can tell they spent money there.

For the writing, with CW quality the rep/joke with them is that they don't do much and are mainly people standing around talking about their feelings and isn't always logically consistent. Stuff that has bother me so far with the writing is stuff like telling us over and over again how adventurous Nori is instead of showing up (this was a little better in E2). Saying the same thing multiple times in a row with slightly different wording, they've done this a ton. Then I've also found the dialog uneven with them trying to sound like Tolkien and also trying to sound more modern. That mix isn't working for me and some of it I found to be cringy.

In story telling I also like it better when the characters drive the plot and not the plot driving the characters. This is one of my issues with the later seasons of GoT too. I want the character to always behave how they normally would and not change only due to the plot needing it for convenience.

I also think there’s a bit of overvaluing Tolkien. He did create really great characters but some of his plotting was mind-numbingly stupid/repetitive. How many times were the good guys all but dead to rights only for someone to MAGICALLY come to their rescue like the Gandalf and crew at Helm’s Deep or the freaking Eagles outside Mordor.

Truly… don’t get me started on the Eagles. Those sons of ******* were the laziest MFer’s in all of middle earth. Coulda flown Bilbo to the Mordor a hell of a lot sooner and saved everyone a lot of time, trouble and death.

 

[Devilmaycare]

I get the JJ hate and fear. I think he definitely destroyed Star Wars and is basically a copy of a copy of a copy of the great directors from our childhood. But almost everyone in the geek and non geek community seem to agree that he took Star Wars and turned it into complete and utter drek so it’s not like y’all are the canary in the coal mine there.

But you’re also talking to someone who went CRAZY for the LOTR. Read every book, saw every movie multiple times, own the extended versions and loved the entire series so much and knew it so well, that one of my first spec scripts was a complete parody of the series that opened a few doors for me many many moons ago. It was really a love letter to everything Tolkien but told through my voice and perspective, which was super ridiculous/offensively funny back in the day. So, I understand the slavish devotion to the work… and even having a little trepidation, but some of the stuff from geek fandom has just been so over the top about anything that’s come out in the sci fi space the last 7 years or so… I just don’t get.

(mod note: if we start getting too into the weeds here and off topic let me know and I'll split things into a new thread)

It's cool that you were into LotR that much too. One of the things you might be missing, and say this lovingly, is that you might be too normal. I even am compared to some. The sci-fi/fantasy fandoms have historically been heavy with the geeks and misfit growing up and many are on the spectrum. I'm aspie myself. So first off there's the mental comfort of the familiar for people that are on it. But then in general with the nerd factor of it. Comic and the other worlds from our sci-fi and fantasy was our safe place to escape to from the bullying and other aspects of real life growing up. So when you perceive an "attack" on that due to "outsiders" trying to come in and change things people get defensive. There's a large perception that that's what's been going on. Some of it's justified and some of it isn't.

There's some similarities to it with with sports. We can post "Kyler sucks!" but if a Rams or Cowboys fan comes in and says that then we circle the wagons.

It's funny. There still some titles like that from my childhood that in my head are comfort food but when I watch them now I think they're crap.

 

[Devilmaycare]

I also think there’s a bit of overvaluing Tolkien. He did create really great characters but some of his plotting was mind-numbingly stupid/repetitive. How many times were the good guys all but dead to rights only for someone to MAGICALLY come to their rescue like the Gandalf and crew at Helm’s Deep or the freaking Eagles outside Mordor.

Truly… don’t get me started on the Eagles. Those sons of ******* were the laziest MFer’s in all of middle earth. Coulda flown Bilbo to the Mordor a hell of a lot sooner and saved everyone a lot of time, trouble and death.

NOOOO, not the eagles argument. This is going to be a long night now.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Jetstream Green]

They take some liberties if one is aware of the original storylines of "The Silmarillion" and other unfinished stories of Tolkien but the production is top notch and really enjoyed the series so far. I look at it like this, this is not the book (which is always better, it's a freaking classic with an intense detail of its own) but it's a marvelous adaption of the stories inspired by the literature

 

[Cheesebeef]

(mod note: if we start getting too into the weeds here and off topic let me know and I'll split things into a new thread)

It's cool that you were into LotR that much too. One of the things you might be missing, and say this lovingly, is that you might be too normal. I even am compared to some. The sci-fi/fantasy fandoms have historically been heavy with the geeks and misfit growing up and many are on the spectrum. I'm aspie myself. So first off there's the mental comfort of the familiar for people that are on it. But then in general with the nerd factor of it. Comic and the other worlds from our sci-fi and fantasy was our safe place to escape to from the bullying and other aspects of real life growing up. So when you perceive an "attack" on that due to "outsiders" trying to come in and change things people get defensive. There's a large perception that that's what's been going on. Some of it's justified and some of it isn't.

There's some similarities to it with with sports. We can post "Kyler sucks!" but if a Rams or Cowboys fan comes in and says that then we circle the wagons.

It's funny. There still some titles like that from my childhood that in my head are comfort food but when I watch them now I think they're crap.

Devil… the overwhelming majority of screenwriters in LA were/still are the biggest geeks in the world. We ain’t sitting around with pipes and bandying about in smoking jackets, gracing our hands on rich mahogany in writers rooms. It’s a constant “I can outdork you!” contest to show who’s really got the OG nerd street cred and I can almost guarantee to you, those in the Rings writers room, are probably some of the biggest in the biz.

I mean… it’s a collection of people who are such dorks and geeks that they went against all conventional wisdom and tried to turn their geekdom into an actual profession that is near IMPOSSIBLE to break into. Screenwriters by and large are the outcasts who somehow made It through to live out the fantasy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They take some liberties if one is aware of the original storylines of "The Silmarillion" and other unfinished stories of Tolkien but the production is top notch and really enjoyed the series so far. I look at it like this, this is not the book (which is always better, it's a freaking classic with an intense detail of its own) but it's a marvelous adaption of the stories inspired by the literature

Bingo. That’s another important thing here… they’re playing in kind of uncharted territory so it’s going to have some differences in order to tell a bigger story.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Bingo. That’s another important thing here… they’re playing in kind of uncharted territory so it’s going to have some differences in order to tell a bigger story.

Exactly, this is not intended to be a testament to the book but an adaption with similar content. Different art forms (film during this era) and different genres of that art take on a different expression. Now "The Hobbit" and the Battle of the Five Armies with big arse worms which disappear which say "hello" and could have easily won the battle alone, and Dwarves riding mountain goats, is when an adaption just gets silly, while Legolas is doing West Coast skateboarding moves, and Dwarves are playing an eighties video game on barrels, is when the Monty Python officer needs to interrupt the proceedings and stop the absurdity

 

[Chaplin]

Heck, it's not like The Simarillion is a filmable book. For the most part, that book is barely READABLE, let along filmable.

And as far as nerd cred goes, I'm still eagerly awaiting a live action Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Exactly, this is not intended to be a testament to the book but an adaption with similar content. Different art forms (film during this era) and different genres of that art take on a different expression. Now "The Hobbit" and the Battle of the Five Armies with big arse worms which disappear which say "hello" and could have easily won the battle alone, and Dwarves riding mountain goats, is when an adaption just gets silly, while Legolas is doing West Coast skateboarding moves, and Dwarves are playing an eighties video game on barrels, is when the Monty Python officer needs to interrupt the proceedings and stop the absurdity

The Hobbit films were atrocious. An epically bloated mess. Probably would have been good as one three hour epic.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Heck, it's not like The Simarillion is a filmable book. For the most part, that book is barely READABLE, let along filmable.

And as far as nerd cred goes, I'm still eagerly awaiting a live action Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

They don't have the right to The Simarillion BTW in case you weren't aware. The appendixes of the LotR books are all they have the rights to. At least at the time this was written. They might have rights to The Hobbit now due to the MGM purchase but I haven't seen anything solid one way or the other on that. It probably depends on how that contract was written.

The Hobbit films were atrocious. An epically bloated mess. Probably would have been good as one three hour epic.

Now this we can strongly agree on. They butchered those movies. It would have been much better if they did a good 3 hour epic like you said that stuck to the book more. Leave out Azog and Gandalf's quest.

 

[carrrnuttt]

The Hobbit films were atrocious. An epically bloated mess. Probably would have been good as one three hour epic.

WB execs are masters of ruining existing work with their meddling.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[ajcardfan]

They take some liberties if one is aware of the original storylines of "The Silmarillion" and other unfinished stories of Tolkien but the production is top notch and really enjoyed the series so far. I look at it like this, this is not the book (which is always better, it's a freaking classic with an intense detail of its own) but it's a marvelous adaption of the stories inspired by the literature

Just jumping in on the last page here.

Huge Tolkien fan. When i was 14 I read the Hobbit and LOTR in about a week as I just never stopped reading. It was literally all I did for that time. I was thrilled with the Jackson LOTR movies. Can watch them anytime. The Hobbit trilogy, not so much but I won't slam it.

Tolkien purists were never going to be completely satisfied with whatever the series turned out to be. The Silmarillon does not lend itself to linear storytelling that modern audiences would watch. While i have read to book several times, it was not like the other books obviously. My impression was always it was the novel Tolkien never finished. It reads more like an encyclopedia than a novel.

The show looks amazing so that is good.

Episode 1 was pretty slow but I understand they have to establish the story lines and characters. At this point, I am not too engaged with any of the characters. One challenge of this series will be that it is driven by elves as the main characters. Elves, in Tolkiens world, are not exactly emotive. The facial expressions are predominantly stoic.

That said, i do have high hopes it is going to go places that will make it a worthy edition to the Tolkien movies.