To move this discussion from the Ayton suspension, I'm taking @CRC83 's suggested name and starting a thread for people to talk Luka. Please keep all Doncic discussion here unless it really belongs in another thread. So if you want to second guess taking Ayton because Luka had a great game, post in "The Luka Report"! Easy enough, I think. We'll see.
The Luka Report
- Thread starter Hoop Head
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I'm stealing this post to get the discussion going also....
I think the Suns have the edge now with Booker and Ayton. Would anyone prefer Doncic and Porzingis? I think that's a good enough question to start this. It's more than just who should have been drafted but what team would you rather have.
I think the Suns have the edge now with Booker and Ayton. Would anyone prefer Doncic and Porzingis? I think that's a good enough question to start this. It's more than just who should have been drafted but what team would you rather have.
Chaplin
Better off silent
So what do you think about Deandre Ayton? I think he’s underrated because he actually had a historically good rookie year.
CRC83
Veteran
I agree that he is being underrated nationally. Part of that has to do with how well Doncic and Young have played. Those two are also the number one option on their teams and play a flashy style, which gets more coverage from the national media.
Can’t wait until Ayton gets back. Hopefully he comes back extra motivated.
CardsSunsDbacks
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#1 options and play the point position so virtually every possession goes through them. Ayton will never be a guy that orchestrates the offense and to be considered near their level nationally he will have to continue to improve in all aspects and that especially means becoming a good defender.
Proximo
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Ok, I know I said in the other thread I thought he peaked.
I was wrong. I watched the game last night and some of the passes he was making were insane. Like some of the best passes I have ever seen. I guess I just haven't watched enough of him recently.
He is still not that great of shooter - that is where he can and probably will improve. Otherwise he is about maxed out for his athleticism because he can get open to do whatever he wants at will already.
I was wrong. I watched the game last night and some of the passes he was making were insane. Like some of the best passes I have ever seen. I guess I just haven't watched enough of him recently.
He is still not that great of shooter - that is where he can and probably will improve. Otherwise he is about maxed out for his athleticism because he can get open to do whatever he wants at will already.
Proximo
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Ayton has the physical tools to be about the best center in the league.
It really all comes down to his will to improve, and his will to be aggressive enough on the court. Unfortunately he has not really shown much of a killer instinct as of yet. Can Monty get him there? To me that is the real question.
I think we hashed this thing out last year. Time to killed this comparison on picks. He is a Euro player he stinks
I think it's delusional at this point to compare Ayton and Doncic. Move on. The dude has a marginally better career at this point than LeBron had. Doncic is also significantly better overall player than Booker. I don't like it but thats the way it is. He will most likely be an All Star this season and in the MVP convo in 2-3 years.
CRC83
Veteran
Take Booker and Doncic off of their teams...do you think Phoenix or Dallas has more talent? Both have good coaches, although the edge goes to Dallas at this point. Carlisle is a top 5 coach. Otherwise, I’d say the supporting cast is pretty similar. Maybe slightly more talent on the suns but I am biased.
Will be interesting to see who ends up with the better record. Could be a key factor in a Doncic vs Booker debate.
Will be interesting to see who ends up with the better record. Could be a key factor in a Doncic vs Booker debate.
Proximo
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CardsSunsDbacks
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That's also a bit of an apples and oranges comparison as well (not as much as the Ayton vs Doncic, but still).
Doncic is THE primary ball handler and play-maker for Dallas. He is playing the PG position and is a better passer and rebounder than Booker, but Booker is a better shooter, better athlete, better pure scorer and at least a slightly better defender. Doncic is the better of the two at creating scoring opportunities off the dribble, but Booker is definitely the more dangerous of the two off the ball.
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I think their roster is very similar to ours although I'd probably give us the edge when Ayton's available. Unless Porzingis gets it all together, and then the Dallas roster gets the nod IMO.
GatorAZ
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SirStefan32
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Rosters are very similar. One thing that Phoenix has that Dallas does not is Kelly Oubre. There is nobody on the Mavs' roster that has the ability to be that third guy with a little bit of attitude. Luka is their undisputed leader/ best player, then there if Kristaps, and then there is really nobody who stands out.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
29, 14, and 15 for Luka for another triple double in another win. This kid is just amazing.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Even though the numbers will tail off he’s probably a shoe-in for 2nd team all-nba barring injury. The Mavs should be good enough to warrant it and there’s guy who made it last year that are out.
Matt L
formerly known as mattyboy
I'm not sure that Booker is a better athlete than Doncic. Luka appears to be stronger and seems to get anywhere he wants on the court with the ball
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CardsSunsDbacks
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He's a good ball handler and uses fakes and hesitation moves very well. Booker is definitely quicker, faster, jumps higher and changes directions faster, but does not have the same level of craftiness as a ball handler that Luka has.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
It depends on how you define athleticism. Neither of these two guys are quick, agile, and neither one of them is really a high-flying basketball player. Booker probably has a slight edge, but not much of it. Both of them are good ball handlers, crafty, have great balance, and both of them are extremely smart. Luka definitely has a slight edge there, mostly because he's played an actual point guard professionally for five or six years. Luka is also a LOT bigger than Book. That makes it easier for him to see over the defense and make better passes. He can also hold his own in the low post better defensively, and it allows him to be able to "bully" people on offense. Flip side of that is that someone who is two or three inches taller and 25-30lb heavier is going to be a little slower. Book is probably a better shooter, and both of them are quite nasty and both of them have "it." The main point here is that athleticism is not just about how high someone can jump and how quickly they can change directions. Frankly, talking about those things as they relate to Luka and Devin is like talking about speed-racing between a Toyota Corolla and a Chevy Cavalier. Neither one of them are going to be winning anything based off of their speed, quickness, agility, and the jumping ability.
All in all, all things being pretty equal, I'll take a point guard built like a power forward over a prototypical swingman, especially if he happens to be younger. They are both excellent players with incredible skills. They do most things similarly well, and neither is perfect. Both of them are among my favorite players in the league, but I do give Luka a slight edge due to his size and versatility. I just love the fact that he can be a point guard on offense and a power forward on defense, even though Booker is clearly a more capable perimeter defender.
EDIT:
Another big factor for me is that Luka seem to be able to see things develop better and faster than Book. Again, this is likely due to him having played PG for years. I am not quite sure if I am explaining this well, but he just seems to understand how plays develop. Booker can make a pass, but Luka seems to be able to see what pass he needs to make much faster, and he understand that he has to make a pass to player A so the player A can set up player B. I don't think Booker sees plays ahead of time the way Luka does. Note that this is not a slam on Book at all. I honestly haven't seen anyone who can do this better than Doncic since Steve Nash in his prime. Before Nash, you'd probably have to go back to Stockton or Magic, though Stockton was more of a pick and roll master/ specialist.
All in all, all things being pretty equal, I'll take a point guard built like a power forward over a prototypical swingman, especially if he happens to be younger. They are both excellent players with incredible skills. They do most things similarly well, and neither is perfect. Both of them are among my favorite players in the league, but I do give Luka a slight edge due to his size and versatility. I just love the fact that he can be a point guard on offense and a power forward on defense, even though Booker is clearly a more capable perimeter defender.
EDIT:
Another big factor for me is that Luka seem to be able to see things develop better and faster than Book. Again, this is likely due to him having played PG for years. I am not quite sure if I am explaining this well, but he just seems to understand how plays develop. Booker can make a pass, but Luka seems to be able to see what pass he needs to make much faster, and he understand that he has to make a pass to player A so the player A can set up player B. I don't think Booker sees plays ahead of time the way Luka does. Note that this is not a slam on Book at all. I honestly haven't seen anyone who can do this better than Doncic since Steve Nash in his prime. Before Nash, you'd probably have to go back to Stockton or Magic, though Stockton was more of a pick and roll master/ specialist.
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CardsSunsDbacks
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I define it as speed, quickness, leaping and agility and Booker is at least a little above Doncic in those regards. Doncic is a better ball handler and has a much more natural feel for the game with the ball in his hands and that is why he can get wherever he wants. Also doesn't hurt that he is bigger and stronger than most of the guys guarding him, but in terms of pure athleticism I'm not sure how you could even think they are really all that close. Booker is a very underrated athlete IMO.
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Sunburn
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Is there anyone who still doesn't think Luka is special? Or wouldn't take him over Ayton?
They're both special, but different players on different timelines, weird considering Luka is the younger one. I'd still take Ayton.
Right now me. Luka is doing what every scout said he would do. He would hit the ground running in the NBA. Where Ayton was going to be a player that took time to develop. All being said, assuming they both reach potential, there is no question I would take a legit big man over Luka. There is a better chance of landing another player like Luka in future drafts than a legit big man.
Ayton might never get there. Have no clue. However, everyone said Ayton wasn't going to hit the ground running like Luka. I think it's too early to judge Ayton just entering his second season and riding the bench out of stupidity right now. I may feel different by seasons end.
elindholm
edited for content
Those are crazy numbers!
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