The Luka Report

SirStefan32

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Right now me. Luka is doing what every scout said he would do. He would hit the ground running in the NBA. Where Ayton was going to be a player that took time to develop. All being said, assuming they both reach potential, there is no question I would take a legit big man over Luka. There is a better chance of landing another player like Luka in future drafts than a legit big man.

Ayton might never get there. Have no clue. However, everyone said Ayton wasn't going to hit the ground running like Luka. I think it's too early to judge Ayton just entering his second season and riding the bench out of stupidity right now. I may feel different by seasons end.

Even the biggest Luka fans among the scouts did not say he would be averaging 26.7 points, 10.3 rebounds, and 9.5 assist in his second season. I was a huge Luka fan and I honestly though his ceiling would end up being what he averaged last year (21, 8, and 6.)

Suns drafted Ayton for what he could be in a few years, and I am still fine with that, but the more I watch Luka, the more impressed I get with him.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It depends on how you define athleticism. Neither of these two guys are quick, agile, and neither one of them is really a high-flying basketball player. Booker probably has a slight edge, but not much of it. Both of them are good ball handlers, crafty, have great balance, and both of them are extremely smart. Luka definitely has a slight edge there, mostly because he's played an actual point guard professionally for five or six years. Luka is also a LOT bigger than Book. That makes it easier for him to see over the defense and make better passes. He can also hold his own in the low post better defensively, and it allows him to be able to "bully" people on offense. Flip side of that is that someone who is two or three inches taller and 25-30lb heavier is going to be a little slower. Book is probably a better shooter, and both of them are quite nasty and both of them have "it." The main point here is that athleticism is not just about how high someone can jump and how quickly they can change directions. Frankly, talking about those things as they relate to Luka and Devin is like talking about speed-racing between a Toyota Corolla and a Chevy Cavalier. Neither one of them are going to be winning anything based off of their speed, quickness, agility, and the jumping ability.

All in all, all things being pretty equal, I'll take a point guard built like a power forward over a prototypical swingman, especially if he happens to be younger. They are both excellent players with incredible skills. They do most things similarly well, and neither is perfect. Both of them are among my favorite players in the league, but I do give Luka a slight edge due to his size and versatility. I just love the fact that he can be a point guard on offense and a power forward on defense, even though Booker is clearly a more capable perimeter defender.

EDIT:
Another big factor for me is that Luka seem to be able to see things develop better and faster than Book. Again, this is likely due to him having played PG for years. I am not quite sure if I am explaining this well, but he just seems to understand how plays develop. Booker can make a pass, but Luka seems to be able to see what pass he needs to make much faster, and he understand that he has to make a pass to player A so the player A can set up player B. I don't think Booker sees plays ahead of time the way Luka does. Note that this is not a slam on Book at all. I honestly haven't seen anyone who can do this better than Doncic since Steve Nash in his prime. Before Nash, you'd probably have to go back to Stockton or Magic, though Stockton was more of a pick and roll master/ specialist.
Agree with all of this. Interestingly I recall that predraft book’s measured athleticism was much better than expected. But it doesn’t seem to fully translate to the court. For an elite player he gets his layups and shots blocked far more frequently than most imo.
 

Mainstreet

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The Suns drafted Ayton, not Luka, so I'm still hoping that proves to be the correct decision long term.
If Ayton had not been suspended I would feel much better about it.

Make no mistake, Luka is the best player out of the 2018 draft now.

Ayton will have to have an excellent career for fans not to regret drafting him over Luka. I do think it's possible for Ayton, Luka and Trae Young to be stars. It doesn't have to be either or with these players. They could all be plums.
 

Covert Rain

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Even the biggest Luka fans among the scouts did not say he would be averaging 26.7 points, 10.3 rebounds, and 9.5 assist in his second season. I was a huge Luka fan and I honestly though his ceiling would end up being what he averaged last year (21, 8, and 6.)

Suns drafted Ayton for what he could be in a few years, and I am still fine with that, but the more I watch Luka, the more impressed I get with him.

Ofcourse not but the season is young. His numbers will stabilize and he is a young talent on a team that grew very old over the past several years. He is the focal point right now. That doesn't take anything away from his numbers. My point was that people universally felt he could play and be an IMPACT on his team right away.

To compare him to a player that everyone said would take sometime to determine who you would rather have seems premature.
 

Matt L

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I'll be interested to see the Mavs match up with the Clippers. I wonder how he will respond to that defense.
 

Mainstreet

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I'll be interested to see the Mavs match up with the Clippers. I wonder how he will respond to that defense.

Luka is such a gamer having played in big games in Europe he will likely take what the defense gives him. I can't see him be rattled or shut down. He can always rebound and pass to make other teammates better. Luka is so creative I still think he will get his shots.
 

Chaplin

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It would be nice if we could watch Ayton and be impressed. :rolleyes:
The kid had a historically good season last year as a rookie big man! What exactly does he need to do at this young age to impress you??
 

Chaplin

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Let's say, just for argument's sake, that the league consensus thought two players were going to pretty much have identical careers as far as impact goes (different positions means different contributions, but I'm talking impact). The Phoenix Suns were going to get one of them. Do they take a big man or do they take a hybrid guard? Geez, it's a NO-BRAINER which one the Suns would take, and they went that way. Look at our history, look at that team's current needs, and it's no wonder Ayton was taken.
 

gimpy

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Sorry, it was all sarcasm because of his 25 game suspension.

I'm not upset with the pick or his play.
 

Mainstreet

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Sorry, it was all sarcasm because of his 25 game suspension.

I'm not upset with the pick or his play.

If you missed the Kings game tough luck. :D
 

Sunburn

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Doncic has won titles and mvp's in the second most competitive league in the world as an 18 year old. That's never been seen before, by a pretty wide margin. He's averaging not just MVP numbers, but historically great numbers, at 20 years old in his second season in the NBA. We've rarely ever seen these numbers in history, let alone from a 20 year old. Doncic is a basketball genius, plain and simple. It's a proven fact at this point. To me, it's pretty clear already who is and will be the better player. And that's not even a knock on Ayton. If Doncic continues this career trajectory, he's easily going down as an all-timer.
 

SirStefan32

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Doncic has won titles and mvp's in the second most competitive league in the world as an 18 year old. That's never been seen before, by a pretty wide margin. He's averaging not just MVP numbers, but historically great numbers, at 20 years old in his second season in the NBA. We've rarely ever seen these numbers in history, let alone from a 20 year old. Doncic is a basketball genius, plain and simple. It's a proven fact at this point. To me, it's pretty clear already who is and will be the better player. And that's not even a knock on Ayton. If Doncic continues this career trajectory, he's easily going down as an all-timer.

Yeah, I really think that we as Suns fans tend to under-appreciate just how good Doncic is. I have a hunch that if he was taken by someone else ahead of the Suns taking Ayton, we'd be more objective when it comes to Doncic.
 

AzStevenCal

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Yeah, I really think that we as Suns fans tend to under-appreciate just how good Doncic is. I have a hunch that if he was taken by someone else ahead of the Suns taking Ayton, we'd be more objective when it comes to Doncic.

I also think our history of never having a difference maker at the 5 has a lot to do with it, I know that was the deciding factor for me when I chose DA as my pick. But I don't know how anyone can watch both players and not walk away far more impressed by Doncic and the way he impacts the game. We can only hope that Ayton will someday rival that level of impact (positional differences notwithstanding). Fortunately, him becoming a dominant force isn't pure fantasy, it just requires far more dedication from the guy than we've seen to date.
 

Dr. Jones

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The kid had a historically good season last year as a rookie big man! What exactly does he need to do at this young age to impress you??
Making an impact is so much more than a box score IMO.
Let's say, just for argument's sake, that the league consensus thought two players were going to pretty much have identical careers as far as impact goes (different positions means different contributions, but I'm talking impact). The Phoenix Suns were going to get one of them. Do they take a big man or do they take a hybrid guard? Geez, it's a NO-BRAINER which one the Suns would take, and they went that way. Look at our history, look at that team's current needs, and it's no wonder Ayton was taken.

If this was 1990, a big man was the no-brainer. Bowie vs. Jordan. Oden vs. Durant. And so on and so on.

Since the rule changes (zone defense, hand checking, and 3 point line distance) Ball handlers are much more important than Centers. Unless you have Jokic level skills, or Porzingis level offense, or Gobert level defense, you can be schemed right out of a game. Or worse...... a playoff series.

I am still of the opinion we would have been better off with Jackson than Ayton. But I would have gone Ayton still.


Did you know that Shaq was the last "TRUE" center to win MVP? And that was at the turn of the freaking century in 99-00.

Duncan was maybe the next but him and KG were primarily 4's. Since KG in 2004 Giannis last year was the first "post" player to win the award. And I think we all know that KG, & Giannis weren't "Centers". Yet since 2000, Point Guards have won the award 7 times, with Harden not counted.

It was a bad decision IMO. I said it then, and I will say it now.
 

Chaplin

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Making an impact is so much more than a box score IMO.


If this was 1990, a big man was the no-brainer. Bowie vs. Jordan. Oden vs. Durant. And so on and so on.

Since the rule changes (zone defense, hand checking, and 3 point line distance) Ball handlers are much more important than Centers. Unless you have Jokic level skills, or Porzingis level offense, or Gobert level defense, you can be schemed right out of a game. Or worse...... a playoff series.

I am still of the opinion we would have been better off with Jackson than Ayton. But I would have gone Ayton still.


Did you know that Shaq was the last "TRUE" center to win MVP? And that was at the turn of the freaking century in 99-00.

Duncan was maybe the next but him and KG were primarily 4's. Since KG in 2004 Giannis last year was the first "post" player to win the award. And I think we all know that KG, & Giannis weren't "Centers". Yet since 2000, Point Guards have won the award 7 times, with Harden not counted.

It was a bad decision IMO. I said it then, and I will say it now.
It was not a "bad" decision, and it hasn't proven to be a "bad" decision. Could it be down the road? Sure, if Ayton gets kicked out of the league for drugs or regresses. But his career trajectory is 100% going up. He has a lot more room to grow than Doncic does, simply because Luka is already at a high level. I'm confident Ayton can get there, even with people that WANT him to fail simply to prove a point.

And sorry to tell you, but Ayton has A LOT more in common with Giannis and KG than he does with Shaq. But you're basing everything on a label. Center. We don't NEED Ayton to win the MVP. We've already got a guy that fits that mold with Booker.
 

BC867

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Maybe not be suspended (pretty sure that was his point).
That is a valid point. Not being available, whether due to suspension, foul trouble, injuries,
bad attitude, laziness or stupidity are all part the evaluation of a ball player.

He'd be great if only he could . . . does not make a player good, let alone great.
 

Dr. Jones

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It was not a "bad" decision, and it hasn't proven to be a "bad" decision. Could it be down the road? Sure, if Ayton gets kicked out of the league for drugs or regresses. But his career trajectory is 100% going up. He has a lot more room to grow than Doncic does, simply because Luka is already at a high level. I'm confident Ayton can get there, even with people that WANT him to fail simply to prove a point.

And sorry to tell you, but Ayton has A LOT more in common with Giannis and KG than he does with Shaq. But you're basing everything on a label. Center. We don't NEED Ayton to win the MVP. We've already got a guy that fits that mold with Booker.
Waiting and hoping. The worst place to be with a complacent big man with poor defensive skills.

And comparing Ayton to KG or Giannis when they both have proven to have a Kobe level mindset combined with HOF level defensive skills is..... just...... crazy talk IMO. Like, Jake Tsakilidis & Alex Len were one bounce away from being an all-star level crazy. Or Levi Brown was the right choice level crazy.
 

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