The Luka Report

[Hoop Head]

Waiting and hoping. The worst place to be with a complacent big man with poor defensive skills.

And comparing Ayton to KG or Giannis when they both have proven to have a Kobe level mindset combined with HOF level defensive skills is..... just...... crazy talk IMO. Like, Jake Tsakilidis & Alex Len were one bounce away from being an all-star level crazy. Or Levi Brown was the right choice level crazy.

And creating a new narrative while ignoring what was actually said is just troll talk. Seriously, did you read the post? Ayton wasn't compared to KG and Giannis specifically because they're a good comparison for his game, it was said he has more in common with them than he does with Shaq, do you disagree with that? I know it's harder to complain and bash him if you stick with what was said but I'm sure you'll find a way.

Hours after the Suns play a fantastic 48 minutes of basketball, you have to attack their 21 old year old center who is not playing in order to keep up your negativity, it's ridiculous. All so you can say you were right about Luka, when you've made 100 posts saying you were right to how many actually saying you wanted him? I looked and I found just as many as you made saying you wanted them to trade up for Colin Sexton, 1. Why don't we talk about how wrong you were about Sexton? You wanted to give up assets to add him also, not just select him where the Suns pick was. You'd probably say it's too soon to give up on Sexton or something about the bad situation he's in over in Cleveland but don't afford Ayton the same criteria to be judged.

People can be wrong and they can be right but it's far too soon with Ayton to say he sucks because he had a historically great rookie year from a statistical standpoint on a dumpster fire of a Suns team without a PG or a legit head coach. He's played 1 game this year and put up fantastic numbers in that also, showing some defensive prowess but that doesn't fit your narrative so let's ignore it. He's not KD or Giannis so he sucks.

 

[Dr. Jones]

And creating a new narrative while ignoring what was actually said is just troll talk. Seriously, did you read the post? Ayton wasn't compared to KG and Giannis specifically because they're a good comparison for his game, it was said he has more in common with them than he does with Shaq, do you disagree with that? I know it's harder to complain and bash him if you stick with what was said but I'm sure you'll find a way.

Hours after the Suns play a fantastic 48 minutes of basketball, you have to attack their 21 old year old center who is not playing in order to keep up your negativity, it's ridiculous. All so you can say you were right about Luka, when you've made 100 posts saying you were right to how many actually saying you wanted him? I looked and I found just as many as you made saying you wanted them to trade up for Colin Sexton, 1. Why don't we talk about how wrong you were about Sexton? You wanted to give up assets to add him also, not just select him where the Suns pick was. You'd probably say it's too soon to give up on Sexton or something about the bad situation he's in over in Cleveland but don't afford Ayton the same criteria to be judged.

People can be wrong and they can be right but it's far too soon with Ayton to say he sucks because he had a historically great rookie year from a statistical standpoint on a dumpster fire of a Suns team without a PG or a legit head coach. He's played 1 game this year and put up fantastic numbers in that also, showing some defensive prowess but that doesn't fit your narrative so let's ignore it. He's not KD or Giannis so he sucks.

1. He said that he was more like KG & Giannis than Shaq. Is that not a comparison?

2. "Suspended Center". FTFY

3. The sexton argument is classic deflection. I have wanted a PG, he was a PG, I wanted Sexton, Luka, and then Coby White, and is why I thought Ricky Rubio was overpaid (beginning to think differently about that though).

I don't think Ayton sucks..... He has superstar potential. That's a big deal and we have him. I just think we have to keep perspective regarding this. I think we need two more years on DA before we can fully label him one way or the other. I just get very pissy when they are compared because Luka looks like a superstar now. Still has his warts, but he is playing like an all-star and he is playing period.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Just a quick update:

Luka may be a top 5 MVP contender one month into THIS season.

11 games in:
#3 team offensive efficiency. ESPN, Hollinger's ratings.
#2 in offensive rating on NBA.com
#4 player in usage rating.

28.7ppg - #4 in League
10.3 Rpg - 13th in league
9.3 assists - 2nd
30.62 PER - 2nd

Not able to buy liquor in the USA until 2/28/2020

1/8th of the season. So the sample size is only 13.4% of the season but damn man.

 

[CRC83]

Just a quick update:

Luka may be a top 5 MVP contender one month into THIS season.

11 games in:
#3 team offensive efficiency. ESPN, Hollinger's ratings.
#2 in offensive rating on NBA.com
#4 player in usage rating.

28.7ppg - #4 in League
10.3 Rpg - 13th in league
9.3 assists - 2nd
30.62 PER - 2nd

Not able to buy liquor in the USA until 2/28/2020

1/8th of the season. So the sample size is only 13.4% of the season but damn man.

Crazy numbers. Almost averaging a triple double at 20 years old.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Some were really wrong on this kid.

 

[SirStefan32]

Some were really wrong on this id.

Even those of us who liked Luka and thought he'd be good were wrong. I had no idea he would be as good as he is.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Even those of us who liked Luka and thought he'd be good were wrong. I had no idea he would be as good as he is.

Yeah I was a big proponent but I saw him more like better Lonzo Ball than smaller Lebron James

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My wish was to sell the farm for Doncic and draft Ayton.

 

[elindholm]

His numbers are great and I've watched him a bit now. His awareness, especially on offense, is very good. His best offensive weapon is a half-running floater when he gets to about the dotted circle inside the lane -- he makes nearly all of those, and defenses continue to seem surprised by it. Obviously he puts up strong assist and rebounding numbers. His vision is good and he can see a play developing before the defense can. As for rebounding, I disagree with some on this board that he's especially skilled there; most of the rebounds he gets are uncontested and his teammates defer to him as being the one to collect them.

By far his most exceptional characteristic is his swagger. He's already getting star treatment from the officials, which I find amazing. He engages fans, officials, and the opposing team with a smug superiority that I suspect is rapidly going to make him one of the most disliked players in the league, but as for now he's taking advantage of the honeymoon period. He's not a particularly good outside shooter, but every time he makes a three, he prances around like he's unstoppable.

To me he still looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards. But he's surprisingly wide in the upper body, and he's crafty enough to use that width to create space. He's not a particularly adept ball-handler, and one of the opposing teams I watched (I can't remember which) took him out of his game by double-teaming him far from the basket, which he didn't have the skill to punish. He's much better than I thought he would be, but I think the jury's still out on whether he'll be able to sustain this hot start to his career.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

His numbers are great and I've watched him a bit now. His awareness, especially on offense, is very good. His best offensive weapon is a half-running floater when he gets to about the dotted circle inside the lane -- he makes nearly all of those, and defenses continue to seem surprised by it. Obviously he puts up strong assist and rebounding numbers. His vision is good and he can see a play developing before the defense can. As for rebounding, I disagree with some on this board that he's especially skilled there; most of the rebounds he gets are uncontested and his teammates defer to him as being the one to collect them.

By far his most exceptional characteristic is his swagger. He's already getting star treatment from the officials, which I find amazing. He engages fans, officials, and the opposing team with a smug superiority that I suspect is rapidly going to make him one of the most disliked players in the league, but as for now he's taking advantage of the honeymoon period. He's not a particularly good outside shooter, but every time he makes a three, he prances around like he's unstoppable.

To me he still looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards. But he's surprisingly wide in the upper body, and he's crafty enough to use that width to create space. He's not a particularly adept ball-handler, and one of the opposing teams I watched (I can't remember which) took him out of his game by double-teaming him far from the basket, which he didn't have the skill to punish. He's much better than I thought he would be, but I think the jury's still out on whether he'll be able to sustain this hot start to his career.

He should be guarded by Booker when we play them on the 29th so it will be interesting to see how Booker takes those antics.

 

[elindholm]

He should be guarded by Booker when we play them on the 29th

Uh, really? I was thinking Oubre or Bridges. Doncic is larger than Booker (he lines up as a SF) and I don't see that match-up going well for the Suns.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Uh, really? I was thinking Oubre or Bridges. Doncic is larger than Booker (he lines up as a SF) and I don't see that match-up going well for the Suns.

Seth Curray and Doncic are the back court. I don't think Rubio will guard Doncic. Their 3 is also 6'7"

 

[Carolinacacti]

Ayton was the safe bet. I wanted him because Booker can play defense better then Doncic if you can believe that. Booker turns the ball over to much and I would rather have Doncic. But Ayton was the right pick,

 

[Hoop Head]

Just a quick update:

Luka may be a top 5 MVP contender one month into THIS season.

11 games in:
#3 team offensive efficiency. ESPN, Hollinger's ratings.
#2 in offensive rating on NBA.com
#4 player in usage rating.

28.7ppg - #4 in League
10.3 Rpg - 13th in league
9.3 assists - 2nd
30.62 PER - 2nd

Not able to buy liquor in the USA until 2/28/2020

1/8th of the season. So the sample size is only 13.4% of the season but damn man.

He's not going to be in contention for MVP until the Mavericks start winning a lot more games. His numbers are gaudy but the voters learned that averaging a triple double isn't as special as it once was since Westbrook has done so for the last 3 years and is averaging one still this year. Westbrook's MVP year was the first year in a long time that the MVP went to a player whose team didn't finish as a top 2 seed for the playoffs. Prior to Westbrook winning it as a 6th seed the last time a player won it with their team not finishing in the top 2 in their conference was Michael Jordan in 87-88 when the Bulls finished 3rd.

Here's a look at the MVP's from 2000 up until Russ' win in 2016-17 and their team's winning percentage, plus where they finished in their conference. Here's the article I got that from. The same arguments used against Westbrook winning MVP, and repeating, would be used against Doncic.

It's definitely an impressive feat for Doncic, for sure, and I'm not trying to discredit what he's doing but there is a difference between insane stats and being the league's MVP. Unfortunately for Doncic, the NBA world handed out an MVP trophy 3 years ago to someone for his insane numbers and they aren't likely to do it again for some time.

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

Seth Curray and Doncic are the back court. I don't think Rubio will guard Doncic. Their 3 is also 6'7"

I would bet that Oubre/Bridges almost certainly gets the majority of that assignment. Depending on lineups you might even see some moments of Saric taking on Doncic.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Even those of us who liked Luka and thought he'd be good were wrong. I had no idea he would be as good as he is.

Yup. I was crazy to dream we could somehow get him and Ayton. But even I didn’t see this!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My wish was to sell the farm for Doncic and draft Ayton.

Me too

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His numbers are great and I've watched him a bit now. His awareness, especially on offense, is very good. His best offensive weapon is a half-running floater when he gets to about the dotted circle inside the lane -- he makes nearly all of those, and defenses continue to seem surprised by it. Obviously he puts up strong assist and rebounding numbers. His vision is good and he can see a play developing before the defense can. As for rebounding, I disagree with some on this board that he's especially skilled there; most of the rebounds he gets are uncontested and his teammates defer to him as being the one to collect them.

By far his most exceptional characteristic is his swagger. He's already getting star treatment from the officials, which I find amazing. He engages fans, officials, and the opposing team with a smug superiority that I suspect is rapidly going to make him one of the most disliked players in the league, but as for now he's taking advantage of the honeymoon period. He's not a particularly good outside shooter, but every time he makes a three, he prances around like he's unstoppable.

To me he still looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards. But he's surprisingly wide in the upper body, and he's crafty enough to use that width to create space. He's not a particularly adept ball-handler, and one of the opposing teams I watched (I can't remember which) took him out of his game by double-teaming him far from the basket, which he didn't have the skill to punish. He's much better than I thought he would be, but I think the jury's still out on whether he'll be able to sustain this hot start to his career.

29
10
9

and still questioning, wow.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's not going to be in contention for MVP until the Mavericks start winning a lot more games. His numbers are gaudy but the voters learned that averaging a triple double isn't as special as it once was since Westbrook has done so for the last 3 years and is averaging one still this year. Westbrook's MVP year was the first year in a long time that the MVP went to a player whose team didn't finish as a top 2 seed for the playoffs. Prior to Westbrook winning it as a 6th seed the last time a player won it with their team not finishing in the top 2 in their conference was Michael Jordan in 87-88 when the Bulls finished 3rd.

Here's a look at the MVP's from 2000 up until Russ' win in 2016-17 and their team's winning percentage, plus where they finished in their conference. Here's the article I got that from. The same arguments used against Westbrook winning MVP, and repeating, would be used against Doncic.

It's definitely an impressive feat for Doncic, for sure, and I'm not trying to discredit what he's doing but there is a difference between insane stats and being the league's MVP. Unfortunately for Doncic, the NBA world handed out an MVP trophy 3 years ago to someone for his insane numbers and they aren't likely to do it again for some time.

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I’d agree with this. But he’ll still likely finish in a top group of vote getters.

 

[Dr. Jones]

He's not going to be in contention for MVP until the Mavericks start winning a lot more games. His numbers are gaudy but the voters learned that averaging a triple double isn't as special as it once was since Westbrook has done so for the last 3 years and is averaging one still this year. Westbrook's MVP year was the first year in a long time that the MVP went to a player whose team didn't finish as a top 2 seed for the playoffs. Prior to Westbrook winning it as a 6th seed the last time a player won it with their team not finishing in the top 2 in their conference was Michael Jordan in 87-88 when the Bulls finished 3rd.

Here's a look at the MVP's from 2000 up until Russ' win in 2016-17 and their team's winning percentage, plus where they finished in their conference. Here's the article I got that from. The same arguments used against Westbrook winning MVP, and repeating, would be used against Doncic.

It's definitely an impressive feat for Doncic, for sure, and I'm not trying to discredit what he's doing but there is a difference between insane stats and being the league's MVP. Unfortunately for Doncic, the NBA world handed out an MVP trophy 3 years ago to someone for his insane numbers and they aren't likely to do it again for some time.

You must be registered for see images attach

Triple Doubles?

The dude has a higher PER than everyone but Giannis.

I know someone mentioned how staggering it was at age 20 but triple doubles have nothing to do with the utter domination he is displaying. The offense is basically him on that team (Kristaps hasn't really gotten off to a good start at all) and he is keeping them at the top of team efficiency rankings as well as crushing his own productivity metrics.

The dude is a top 7 to 9 player in the league right now.

the only question is...... can he keep it up. I tend to think yes since he is actually playing less this year than in previous years. But time will tell.

 

[SirStefan32]

His numbers are great and I've watched him a bit now. His awareness, especially on offense, is very good. His best offensive weapon is a half-running floater when he gets to about the dotted circle inside the lane -- he makes nearly all of those, and defenses continue to seem surprised by it. Obviously he puts up strong assist and rebounding numbers. His vision is good and he can see a play developing before the defense can. As for rebounding, I disagree with some on this board that he's especially skilled there; most of the rebounds he gets are uncontested and his teammates defer to him as being the one to collect them.

By far his most exceptional characteristic is his swagger. He's already getting star treatment from the officials, which I find amazing. He engages fans, officials, and the opposing team with a smug superiority that I suspect is rapidly going to make him one of the most disliked players in the league, but as for now he's taking advantage of the honeymoon period. He's not a particularly good outside shooter, but every time he makes a three, he prances around like he's unstoppable.

To me he still looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards. But he's surprisingly wide in the upper body, and he's crafty enough to use that width to create space. He's not a particularly adept ball-handler, and one of the opposing teams I watched (I can't remember which) took him out of his game by double-teaming him far from the basket, which he didn't have the skill to punish. He's much better than I thought he would be, but I think the jury's still out on whether he'll be able to sustain this hot start to his career.

Denver did an excellent job double-teaming him. I missed one of his games this year, but that Denver game was the only game I watched where the opposing team managed to shut him down (relatively speaking, anyway). There was one other game where he got doubled (against Boston, I think), but he gave his teammates plenty of open shots. They missed most of them though. I don't agree that he is not a very good ball handler. I think he is outstanding, especially for his size.

To some degree, you are right about his rebounding. There is a bit of an OKC Westbrook thing going on there. It seems that their plan is to let Luka get the rebounds and start the fast break himself. I still think he is a very good rebounder, but not as good as the numbers suggest.

Glad you noticed how big/ wide he is. I find that to be the biggest problem for the opposing teams. He can overpower most of the power forwards, let alone the smaller players. He is very strong, and he appears to be in a better shape this year than last season. Last season, it was painfully obvious he hasn't spent much time in the gym, and that he enjoys fast food. He looks leaner, but stronger. He is insanely good in the low post, though he doesn't play there as much as he should.

You are also right about his swagger. I think he gets away with his smugness because he is really good, and he also has that baby-face thing going on. He just looks likeable. I don't know if you've noticed this, but before every game, he goes over to each official, shakes their hands, and chats for a few moments. Maybe this is normal, and maybe it's something most "stars" do, but I just found it to be very interesting. I also think his swagger gets him a certain amount of respect. He is smug, but he backs it up with his play. I remember Lebron telling him he was "one bad *****" after their game.

 

[SirStefan32]

Uh, really? I was thinking Oubre or Bridges. Doncic is larger than Booker (he lines up as a SF) and I don't see that match-up going well for the Suns.

Seth Curray and Doncic are the back court. I don't think Rubio will guard Doncic. Their 3 is also 6'7"

I would bet that Oubre/Bridges almost certainly gets the majority of that assignment. Depending on lineups you might even see some moments of Saric taking on Doncic.

Booker should go nowhere near Doncic. If Booker guards Doncic, he will pick up a foul every other possession. Luka is way too strong for Booker to handle. I also have a feeling Booker would get into a you-know-what-measuring contest, and he would lose badly. As far as the refs are concerned, Luka is a Superstar. Neither of our wings are strong enough for Luka, but Oubre and Bridges at least have some serious length. They can back off and give him long jumpers while using their length to contest them. Another strategy is to double him after every pick and roll attempt and hope the rest of the Mavs miss the open threes they will get. Don't leave Kleber open in the corner, but outside of that, give them some open threes, and hope none of them are on fire that game. That's how Denver beat them, that's how Boston beat them, that's how the Knicks beat them the first time, if I remember correctly.
I do like the idea of putting Saric on him as well. He might be able to not get overpowered, but if he gives him space, he will give him a lot of step-back threes, which I am OK with. Luka is great at many things, but he is not a great shooter. I'd rather give him step-back threes than those mid-range and paint shots.

 

[pokerface]

A very enjoyable thread to read and I dont remember a time where I agree with almost everyone on it.

Last year before we received our draft order I flirted with the idea of taking Doncic number one if we got the chance. Truthfully, I almost wanted the suns to get the number two pic and be 'forced' to take Luka. Well low and behold we got the number one pic for the first time in franchise history. But anyway, Luka was not only a basketball prodigy but a proven winner and was likely to make his teammates better as well. To me that made him special. His stats now are very impressive. I didnt expect him to get these numbers so early in his career nor am I totally shocked either. It's 'kinda' what I expected...

Having said all that I still couldn't get myself to want the suns to pull the trigger and take Doncic over Ayton. And STILL I'd take Ayton over Doncic. As we all know quality generational bigs are usually the hardest commodity to get in the NBA. Aytons numbers are not a slouch and I think his ceiling is still higher than Doncic. Plus I think as suns fans we have a "big man complex" meaning we never drafted a center like this. We are all still secretly ticked we never got Jabbar with that coin flip...ha. So this was a chance to rectify things just a little little bit. I think too our team as currently constructed is better fit to have Ayton on board versus Doncic.

So anyway...good thread!

 

[JCSunsfan]

A very enjoyable thread to read and I dont remember a time where I agree with almost everyone on it.

Last year before we received our draft order I flirted with the idea of taking Doncic number one if we got the chance. Truthfully, I almost wanted the suns to get the number two pic and be 'forced' to take Luka. Well low and behold we got the number one pic for the first time in franchise history. But anyway, Luka was not only a basketball prodigy but a proven winner and was likely to make his teammates better as well. To me that made him special. His stats now are very impressive. I didnt expect him to get these numbers so early in his career nor am I totally shocked either. It's 'kinda' what I expected...

Having said all that I still couldn't get myself to want the suns to pull the trigger and take Doncic over Ayton. And STILL I'd take Ayton over Doncic. As we all know quality generational bigs are usually the hardest commodity to get in the NBA. Aytons numbers are not a slouch and I think his ceiling is still higher than Doncic. Plus I think as suns fans we have a "big man complex" meaning we never drafted a center like this. We are all still secretly ticked we never got Jabbar with that coin flip...ha. So this was a chance to rectify things just a little little bit. I think too our team as currently constructed is better fit to have Ayton on board versus Doncic.

So anyway...good thread!

Yeah. This is pretty much the way I feel. I was all in on Ayton but that was not because I thought Doncic was dog meat. Doncic is the real deal, the jury is still out on Ayton but he is looking good. But we also have a team now. So, it takes moe than one. I am not sure how well Doncic and Book would coexist. Same with Book and Trae. The defense would have been a big issue.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the key with Ayton is patience. Every reasonable person knew Doncic would be better in his first season, second season, third season, so Ayton was drafted for what he would be a few years later. Big problem was that Ayton was so over-hyped by the local homers as well as the crowd that thinks every white European player is a Darko Milicic that people had crazy expectations for Ayton. He obviously has the issues every reasonable person was aware of (lack of drive, aggression, nastiness, defense, etc) but in my opinion he is far better than I expected him to be in his rookie season. Now if he could only stop getting stoned and then trying to cover it up, it would be even better, but he is still further along in his development than I expected him to be. Oddly enough, so are Doncic and Young.