The most bone headed coaching decision

[Buckybird]

What I think is curious (not surprising) is the percentage of pundits who are saying Belichick made the right decision.

Really...really?

Could you imagine the national lambasting the Cardinal staff would've had if it were our team?

The exact same point I made earlier in the thread.

If Wiz would have made the same decision, this board would have melted down, the media would have been ripping the Cards (although the Pats get a pass) and fans would be calling for the head coaches head.

Those who agree with the decision are totally nuts. You give your team the best chance to win & Bellicheat didn't do that for his team.

MAKE the other team beat you!!! Don't gift wrap a win.

 

[Capital Card]

Put me on board the "Belichick is an arse of a human being, along with possibly the greatest NFL coach ever" bandwagon.

I was stunned when he made the call, and impressed that he had the guts to actually do it. When they didn't convert on 3rd down, I was convinced that Indy would win. Obviously, Belichick did too. He bet on his offense and lost. Those types of "crazy" decisions made an incredible game, unforgetable.


It reminded me of when the D'Backs, up by 2, intentionally walked Barry Bonds with the bases loaded.

Worked for the D'Backs, not so much for the Pats. In both instances, I was happy for the end result.

Go Cards!!!

 

[gusmahler]

Seems the cold hard unbiased numbers back Billicheck's decision:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/defending-belichicks-fourth-down-decision/

I posted the same thing. Football Outsiders did something similar, though concluded it was a wash.

The jist is that old media and people who go by gut instinct all say it wasn't just a bad decision, but one of the worst decisions ever. Statheads (who actually analyze based on stats and what's happened in the past) think it was a good decision or, at worst, a coinflip.

But, like it or not, Wisenhunt is a coach who takes chances. Several times, he's gone for it on 4th and goal when every other coach (except Bellicheck) would have kicked a FG. It happened last year against St. Louis. It happened yesterday. When someone posted on another board that no other coach in the NFL would have gone for it, I said that Wisenhunt would have at least thought about it.

 

[Shogun]

The exact same point I made earlier in the thread.

If Wiz would have made the same decision, this board would have melted down, the media would have been ripping the Cards (although the Pats get a pass) and fans would be calling for the head coaches head.

Those who agree with the decision are totally nuts. You give your team the best chance to win & Bellicheat didn't do that for his team.

MAKE the other team beat you!!! Don't gift wrap a win.

My argument for the 'What if it was your team?' is that the Cardinals don't have one of the greatest clutch performers of our era leading one of the most potent offensive in the league, nor do they have a consistently stout defense.

The Patriots took the lesser of two evils by having two chances to win the game - A) Go for it and succeed; game over, OR B) Miss the conversion, but still have your defense go out there and make the stop since they still needed a TD. Either way, they were going to have to see Peyton Manning mounting a potentially game-winning drive, so why not try and remove him from the equation all together?

People are saying 'allow your defense to make a play', but they DID have a chance to stop Manning and the offense. While it may have been a more difficult situation than it would have been had they punt the ball, they still had a chance for the stop and they failed.

It was a ballsy call and I'm not sure I could have made that same decision, but give props for Captain Hoodie for having enough confidence in Tom Brady to make the conversion and faith in his defense.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I posted the same thing. Football Outsiders did something similar, though concluded it was a wash.

The jist is that old media and people who go by gut instinct all say it wasn't just a bad decision, but one of the worst decisions ever. Statheads (who actually analyze based on stats and what's happened in the past) think it was a good decision or, at worst, a coinflip.

But, like it or not, Wisenhunt is a coach who takes chances. Several times, he's gone for it on 4th and goal when every other coach (except Bellicheck) would have kicked a FG. It happened last year against St. Louis. It happened yesterday. When someone posted on another board that no other coach in the NFL would have gone for it, I said that Wisenhunt would have at least thought about it.

He didn't go for it during the Washington game last year with just over 2 minutes to go when we were down 6. I don't think Whiz would have gone for that one.

 

[Duckjake]

I posted the same thing. Football Outsiders did something similar, though concluded it was a wash.

The jist is that old media and people who go by gut instinct all say it wasn't just a bad decision, but one of the worst decisions ever. Statheads (who actually analyze based on stats and what's happened in the past) think it was a good decision or, at worst, a coinflip.

Well there is a High School coach who never punts for that exact reason but in HS the field position gained on a punt aren't that much. Wins all the time.

 

[Pariah]

Well there is a High School coach who never punts

My buddy and I were having this conversation yesterday (afternoon, way before the NE game) and he brought this guy up. Apparently he crunched a lot of numbers to figure this out...do you know where you heard about him? I'd love to see the article, or better yet, the logic/numbers behind never punting.

 

[Shane]

Thought the decision was crazy!

However I LOVED IT!

AGGRESSIVENESS RULES!

 

[Duckjake]

My buddy and I were having this conversation yesterday (afternoon, way before the NE game) and he brought this guy up. Apparently he crunched a lot of numbers to figure this out...do you know where you heard about him? I'd love to see the article, or better yet, the logic/numbers behind never punting.

It was in an issue of Sports Illustrated.

EDIT:

Here's the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1160256/index.htm

 

[Pariah]

Thanks!

 

[Duckjake]

Thanks!

Just in case you didn't see the edit:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1160256/index.htm

 

[82CardsGrad]

What I think is curious (not surprising) is the percentage of pundits who are saying Belichick made the right decision.

Really...really?

Could you imagine the national lambasting the Cardinal staff would've had if it were our team?

Apples and Oranges... Belichik's decision was only made due to the QB's in the game. If either Brady or Manning were not in the game, this decision would not have been made.

 

[Mitch]

I LOVED BB's decision...one of the gutsiest decisions ever. The only thing that surprises me is, BB could have still come out the genius if he had just asked his defense to give up the score immediately (since he was conceding it anyway), and then get the ball back in Brady's hands to get the offense in field goal territory, for the game winning FG.

Once BB made the decision to get the fate of the game in Brady's hands, he should have dictated it better and made sure that Brady had the last laugh. That's what was so surprising. Even as smart as BB is, he didn't have this thought completely through.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Just listened to three former head coaches on the NFL Network, two with Super Bowl rings, discuss the call: UNANIMOUS... it was the right call given all the circumstances.

 

[WildBB]

I LOVED BB's decision...one of the gutsiest decisions ever. The only thing that surprises me is, BB could have still come out the genius if he had just asked his defense to give up the score immediately (since he was conceding it anyway), and then get the ball back in Brady's hands to get the offense in field goal territory, for the game winning FG.

Once BB made the decision to get the fate of the game in Brady's hands, he should have dictated it better and made sure that Brady had the last laugh. That's what was so surprising. Even as smart as BB is, he didn't have this thought completely through.

I don't think he was conceding anything. But could you imagine if he did that and it DID NOT WORK. WOW!

 

[Mitch]

I don't think he was conceding anything. But could you imagine if he did that and it DID NOT WORK. WOW!

Hey, WBB, if you want the game in Brady's hands do it all the way. Just saying.

BTW, Whiz has the cajones to make a call like this...and I think it's great for football. Take the game into your own hands if and when you have the chance and the players that you believe in most.

 

[ajcardfan]

Just listened to three former head coaches on the NFL Network, two with Super Bowl rings, discuss the call: UNANIMOUS... it was the right call given all the circumstances.

Not surprising. Had Whisenhunt made a call like that, I bet he wouldn't get unanimous support. And, if they truly believe what they are saying, then they are just as wrong-headed as Belicheck. (I would say that even if it had worked. But, second-guessing is a lot more fun when a decision doesn't work.)

 

[chickenhead]

I'm still pretty much on the fence. But the one question I have about the statistical analysis that supports the decision is that it's based on times when this scenario has actually happened, right? So those results are based on specific teams making the choice against specific opponents. My guess is that the coaches who actually go for it are more likely to be in charge of a quality offense. So the data on its success is probably affected more significantly by good teams. Meanwhile I imagine that a poor offense is much more likely to punt the ball away, and a lot of those poor offensive teams are going to be poor teams in general. So the data on the failure when you punt it away may be affected more significantly by them. Just a thought.

 

[WildBB]

Hey, WBB, if you want the game in Brady's hands do it all the way. Just saying.

BTW, Whiz has the cajones to make a call like this...and I think it's great for football. Take the game into your own hands if and when you have the chance and the players that you believe in most.

Here you go Mitch.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/11/16/20091116boivinwhiz1117.html

 

[Dback Jon]

The only reason ANYONE is defending this is because Belicheck did it. Any other coach would be crucified

Face it, it was one of the stupidest calls in the history of the game - there is NO WAY around that.

He has disrespected his defense - wouldn't be suprised to see them quit on the fat man this season. He should have just gathered them around and said - look, I have NO FAITH that you guys can stop Manning.

 

[Pariah]

The only reason ANYONE is defending this is because Belicheck did it. Any other coach would be crucified

Face it, it was one of the stupidest calls in the history of the game - there is NO WAY around that.

All of the evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[Pariah]

And, what no one is mentioning is that, to me, it seems liked they got a crappy spot and in fact got the first down.

The first time I saw the play was last night during MNF.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The only reason ANYONE is defending this is because Belicheck did it. Any other coach would be crucified

Face it, it was one of the stupidest calls in the history of the game - there is NO WAY around that.

He has disrespected his defense - wouldn't be suprised to see them quit on the fat man this season. He should have just gathered them around and said - look, I have NO FAITH that you guys can stop Manning.

Absolutely disagree. In fact, I respect Belichick a little more now that he did it. I absolutely love it when coaches put the ball in their best player's hands (Brady) and want them to make a play.

 

[ajcardfan]

And, what no one is mentioning is that, to me, it seems liked they got a crappy spot and in fact got the first down.

The first time I saw the play was last night during MNF.

Actually, like all parts of the play, it's been talked to death. IMO, the official was so emphatic about the bobble being the reason for the spot nothing could've been seen on the replay to overturn it. On the other hand, had he ruled it a first down, I don't think that could've been overturned either.


And, don't forget, the reason the "genius" couldn't challenge the call was the Pats had started the series burning a timeout AFTER a tv timeout, before the first down play.

 

[ajcardfan]

Absolutely disagree. In fact, I respect Belichick a little more now that he did it. I absolutely love it when coaches put the ball in their best player's hands (Brady) and want them to make a play.

I think his testicles have shrunk over the years. He was scared to put his side of the ball out there with the game on the line. don't you remember how the Pats used to brag (with reason) about how their defense shut down Manning in the playoffs? Now it's so completely flipped he doesn't have the nuts to make calls in a 2 minute situation with about 70 yards to go. instead, he makes an absurdly high risk call on offense to get out of that situation. Bruschi is right. His defense has to hate him right now.