The most logical trade partner involving Kyler is Philadelphia

[Chopper0080]

I doubt Houston would be willing to do a straight up trade. The Cards should offer Kyler + one 1st round pick for Watson.

Houston would take a straight up deal 100% and feel like they got a steal.

 

[Chopper0080]

Folks need to stop bringing up Watson until he is cleared.


Rodgers just went one & done with arguably the most talented team he ever had, even more than the SB team. If he couldn’t get it done in GB, what makes you think he can get it done with a less talented team?



Russ’ faults are almost identical to Kyler’s, except he is older & doesn’t have the LOB to help him out.

Russ is corny but I would love to hear you expand on this because I really disagree. Russ doesn't seem to have problems reading defenses, leadership concerns or work ethic concerns.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cardinal draft philosophy would eliminate Watson IMHO. So you have to ask if you could make a deal with Philly what could you get. Murray seems to be somewhat damaged goods. I think 2 firsts and maybe a vet. Not sure I’d take one of their QBs.

Keim isn't going to take a deal that gets him fired and that deal would get him fired.

 

[DVontel]

Russ is corny but I would love to hear you expand on this because I really disagree. Russ doesn't seem to have problems reading defenses, leadership concerns or work ethic concerns.

I thought it was well-documented that Russell struggles hitting the intermediate part of the field &, like Kyler, has started really hot, but faded down the stretch the past couple of seasons. Like Kyler, that could be a height problem, but Russell has been known to go deep-or-die which has put a cap on that Seattle offense. He doesn’t have the work ethic concerns or leadership concerns(though I think this gets overrated to a bit), but I don’t think he raises the ceiling that much more than Kyler for this team, especially he is only getting older & slower.

 

[AZman5103]

Ok, no.

1-Minshew is a meme, nothing more. He carries no value in a deal.

2-If you don't get a comparable QB back, you are not trading Kyler. The GM has to make this deal and the GM is not going to make a deal that gets him fired. You could get 10 1st rounders back and the deal would not be worth it. Smith and Sanders as well. And I am considered a Kyler critic.

If you haven't figured out that the only thing that matters in the NFL is having a top 10 QB, I don't know what else to tell you.

Why would a team with a "comparable" QB be trading for Kyler? It would either be a much older guy like Rodgers, Wilson, etc...or a guy that may not play again next season (Watson).

The only team that would be willing to trade for Kyler was a team that had a need at QB...thats just common sense.

That being said, I would take Minshew, Smith, Sanders and 3 first rounders for Kyler all day long. The Eagles would laugh us out of the building at that asking price.

The reality is that Kyler is probably worth 2 firsts at most. We are massively over valuing him here. Its pretty crazy to think that Deshaun Watson is older, paid WAY more, and facing a ton of legal issues...and they still wouldn't trade him for Kyler straight up...they would want picks from us.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade Kyler right now...unless he is "demanding' a trade. Its a bad QB draft, and I don't think we would get value for him after his piss poor playoff game. I also wouldn't extend him. I let him play year 4, pick up his 5th year option, and then franchise him. A lot is going to happen in that time. He is either going to become a true franchise QB, or the entire thing will have been blown up (KK and Keim gone) and so we will be looking to rebuild anyway.

 

[AZman5103]

Houston would take a straight up deal 100% and feel like they got a steal.

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't unless Watson said he would only go to AZ...which wont happen.

If Watson and his team are confident that he will play next year, and that all his legal troubles are civil and will go away...then they will get lots of offers for him.

Until that happens though they will get nothing. No team is going to risk trading for him until the possibility of criminal charges are gone.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

If Kyler was traded to the Texans straight up for Watson I think he would just quit football & go back to baseball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lol what?

Not actually raping any women is the same as "I didn't inhale"?

Lol. Oh boy. Who wants to educate Brit regarding Monica?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wouldn't call it rape because no intercourse or force took place. The worst allegation against him is that he coerced a woman into performing oral sex. Not forced, coerced.

Dude. Please tell me you are not supporting a professional male athlete coercing a woman to have oral sex. You might want to step that one back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right. Cognitive dissonance speaks to inconsistent thoughts, beliefs etc., which I don't suffer from and perhaps neither does KM.

It's illogical, IMO, to allow the hoi polloi to dictate your best interests. And if this board is a fair representation of fan views, I can't see why a self-respecting person would cater to those who have called him a fraud, a physical coward, immature, stupid, etc.

That, in your words, defies all logic.

$$$$

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am sure you have a perfectly conscientious and honorable soul. My point was that I am not a fan of the People's Court, partly because it often ignores foundational democratic values, and after all, we don't know if Watson is guilty of anything.

Except people’s court is a very real thing. Every single individual judges multiple people every single day. They don’t even know they’re doing it. Even the purest of souls do it. It’s human nature.

 

[Gandhi]

Except people’s court is a very real thing. Every single individual judges multiple people every single day. They don’t even know they’re doing it. Even the purest of souls do it. It’s human nature.

I absolutely agree, Ouchie. But that is also my point, that it is very dangerous to do. In this specific case, blindly believing a bunch of prosecutors is unfair to Watson, I think. It is not democratic, and it is not like he has a history of commiting crimes. But I certainly understand your point.

 

[BritCard]

Russ’ faults are almost identical to Kyler’s, except he is older & doesn’t have the LOB to help him out.

Nah. Russ has much better pocket presence than Kyler and is far better at reading defenses.

 

[BritCard]

If Kyler was traded to the Texans straight up for Watson I think he would just quit football & go back to baseball.

Kyler is never going back to baseball. That's done. There's no way Kyler is going from QB and super star to playing at best AAA ball in front of a few hundred fans and some goats and riding buses 5 nights a week in the hope that by the time he's 27 he might get to play in the MLB.

 

[cardpa]

If Murray did come out and demand a trade, my reply would be you have two choices, either play here or sit out. I wouldn't let him hold the team hostage. If he threatened to go to baseball I'd say fine but of course you have to pay back bonus money since you broke the contract. In the meantime I'd be working behind the scenes on a trade.

 

[Russ Smith]

If Kyler was traded to the Texans straight up for Watson I think he would just quit football & go back to baseball.

Again he's too old for that now, he's already 24 and hasn't played baseball in what 4 years? even if he's a complete freak he's going to start A ball or maybe AA. He would have to be unreal to get to the majors before he's 26 or 27 and there's no guarantee he ever does.

He would make more money by far just playing out his contract with us than he would quitting and going to baseball, the A's are not going to throw money at a 24 year and a half year old, when he was 21 yeah it was possible, not now.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nah. Russ has much better pocket presence than Kyler and is far better at reading defenses.

Thanks but I'm not that good (-:

 

[Russ Smith]

I absolutely agree, Ouchie. But that is also my point, that it is very dangerous to do. In this specific case, blindly believing a bunch of prosecutors is unfair to Watson, I think. It is not democratic, and it is not like he has a history of commiting crimes. But I certainly understand your point.

We don't know, but I'm 56 years old and I've never in my life heard of a case where that many women accused someone of doing something and they were all lying.

 

[AZman5103]

Dude. Please tell me you are not supporting a professional male athlete coercing a woman to have oral sex. You might want to step that one back.

You have to let people tell the truth. Watson has never been charged, or even accused of "rape". There is a legal definition of that word, and if he had been...he would be looking at life in prison.

Watson has been accused of "lewd behavior" by 22 women. 10 of those women filed police reports, and according to several articles the only criminal charges that could be brought would be misdemeanor "Indecent Assault". All 22 women are involved in a civil suit, and it seems like settlements are coming. Same articles say that 18 of the 22 women were prepared to settle the case in October.

All that being said, I think the guy is a dirtbag. I think he thought because he was rich and famous that he could either get those message therapists to have sex with him and think "wow its Deshaun Watson"...or just pay them to do so....or pay them to keep quiet if things didnt work out. I think dudes like that are bad people, who don't really care about anyone but themselves, and certainly have zero respect for women. If I were an NFL owner, I would not want him on my team, and I would push Goodell to issue as big a suspension as possible. However, Watson is not a rapist, and IMO it creates a problem in society and our legal system when we throw that term around for anything involving sex. IMO rapists should be up for the death penalty...so we have to have a clear and consistent definition that involves violence. Again, just my opinion.

 

[BritCard]

We don't know, but I'm 56 years old and I've never in my life heard of a case where that many women accused someone of doing something and they were all lying.

I don't think it's so black and white. There are some mitigating factors. I seem to recall Watson had testimony from around 20 therapists he used in recent years that said he was nothing but a gentleman. I also seem to recall he said the 2 sexual acts he is accused of which did take place were consensual.

I think there's something there. Remember that most of the accusations are simply that Watson propositioned them for sex, only a small number say there was actual sexual contact. I think that's highly likely.

I can see a scenario where the 2 women did consent. One of them decided there was a payday to be had and the rest smelled dollars and joined in. It isn't a crime to proposition someone for sex as long as you take no for an answer. It was surely awkward and uncomfortable but I don't think a crime.

After all this time I highly doubt anything comes of it. If there was enough there to prosecute or for them to win a civil case it would have been done by now.

The fact that Watson could have settled this early with an NDA and made it go away also leans me towards there being less in this than made out in the media.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think it's so black and white. There are some mitigating factors. I seem to recall Watson had testimony from around 20 therapists he used in recent years that said he was nothing but a gentleman. I also seem to recall he said the 2 sexual acts he is accused of which did take place were consensual.

I think there's something there. Remember that most of the accusations are simply that Watson propositioned them for sex, only a small number say there was actual sexual contact. I think that's highly likely.

I can see a scenario where the 2 women did consent. One of them decided there was a payday to be had and the rest smelled dollars and joined in. It isn't a crime to proposition someone for sex as long as you take no for an answer. It was surely awkward and uncomfortable but I don't think a crime.

After all this time I highly doubt anything comes of it. If there was enough there to prosecute or for them to win a civil case it would have been done by now.

The fact that Watson could have settled this early with an NDA and made it go away also leans me towards there being less in this than made out in the media.

You're forgetting we are in a pandemic and EVERYTHING takes longer right now. It's possible a crooked lawyer decided to cash in on his new contract and found out about his proclivity to bring in massage therapists due to Covid and decided he could exploit it. But the level of conspiracy required to get more than 20 women to agree to lie etc.

I do hope he's completely innocent but it just seems pretty likely he isn't. And from what I've read in more than half the cases he's accused of intentionally having them make "contact" with his goods which is beyond just asking them to do something. Saying can I get a happy ending is NOT the same as putting their hand there and saying it.

The reason i'm very skeptical as I've said before is Watson KNEW he was under scrutiny and kept doing it. He'd already been accused, not publicly, by several women and he continued to fly them in. He was either 100% innocent and had no fear, or he has a problem and had no fear. I tend to lean to the latter but I guess we'll see.

 

[BritCard]

But the level of conspiracy required to get more than 20 women to agree to lie etc.

I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's pretty easy for 20 women he propositioned at some point and never saw again to think "He did proposition me. There could be something in it for me here with a little embellishment". I don't think that's unlikely. Which may well be why Watson was so reticent to settle earlier because he knows a good chunk of them are chancers.

Is he a douche? Probably. I was a young man once. If I was a 25 year old multi millionaire on the road and there was an attractive single woman in my room would I not proposition her? I'd like to say no, but then 25 year old me was horny a lot.

On the other hand. Propositioning your masseuse while she's doing her job is douchy. At least wait until it's over and you're wearing some clothes then ask if she wants to stay for a drink.

When it comes down to it there are lots of douchy guys. Probably several already on our roster. I could live with another one that throws 33 TD's a year behind a crappy O line and has a connection with our WR1. If he's cleared of anything criminal.

 

[DVontel]

Nah. Russ has much better pocket presence than Kyler and is far better at reading defenses.

Kind of wild how he’s responsible for a good amount of the sacks he gets & how he struggles to throw into the MOF. Folks here seem to just miss Russ struggle in the 2nd half of seasons as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I absolutely agree, Ouchie. But that is also my point, that it is very dangerous to do. In this specific case, blindly believing a bunch of prosecutors is unfair to Watson, I think. It is not democratic, and it is not like he has a history of commiting crimes. But I certainly understand your point.

But it’s not blindly. I believe some women have come out and made statements. So a reader/listener can make a determination that they believe there’s some level of credibility. Also, you might want to call them “prosecutors” but others might call them “victims.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You have to let people tell the truth. Watson has never been charged, or even accused of "rape". There is a legal definition of that word, and if he had been...he would be looking at life in prison.

Watson has been accused of "lewd behavior" by 22 women. 10 of those women filed police reports, and according to several articles the only criminal charges that could be brought would be misdemeanor "Indecent Assault". All 22 women are involved in a civil suit, and it seems like settlements are coming. Same articles say that 18 of the 22 women were prepared to settle the case in October.

All that being said, I think the guy is a dirtbag. I think he thought because he was rich and famous that he could either get those message therapists to have sex with him and think "wow its Deshaun Watson"...or just pay them to do so....or pay them to keep quiet if things didnt work out. I think dudes like that are bad people, who don't really care about anyone but themselves, and certainly have zero respect for women. If I were an NFL owner, I would not want him on my team, and I would push Goodell to issue as big a suspension as possible. However, Watson is not a rapist, and IMO it creates a problem in society and our legal system when we throw that term around for anything involving sex. IMO rapists should be up for the death penalty...so we have to have a clear and consistent definition that involves violence. Again, just my opinion.

This a fair write up. There is a legal difference between rape, sexual assault and lewd behavior. I haven’t read the formal charges to know exactly which have been filed and charged (or expect to be charged). Concurrently, they all lie upon the same sexual predator spectrum. A powerful and rich man believing he can impose his will, sexually, on women who may or may not desire his actions. And no, he’s not been proven guilty yet. But that’s a TON of smoke and the facts on professional athletes generally don’t turn out positive.