The most logical trade partner involving Kyler is Philadelphia

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You have to let people tell the truth. Watson has never been charged, or even accused of "rape". There is a legal definition of that word, and if he had been...he would be looking at life in prison.

Watson has been accused of "lewd behavior" by 22 women. 10 of those women filed police reports, and according to several articles the only criminal charges that could be brought would be misdemeanor "Indecent Assault". All 22 women are involved in a civil suit, and it seems like settlements are coming. Same articles say that 18 of the 22 women were prepared to settle the case in October.

All that being said, I think the guy is a dirtbag. I think he thought because he was rich and famous that he could either get those message therapists to have sex with him and think "wow its Deshaun Watson"...or just pay them to do so....or pay them to keep quiet if things didnt work out. I think dudes like that are bad people, who don't really care about anyone but themselves, and certainly have zero respect for women. If I were an NFL owner, I would not want him on my team, and I would push Goodell to issue as big a suspension as possible. However, Watson is not a rapist, and IMO it creates a problem in society and our legal system when we throw that term around for anything involving sex. IMO rapists should be up for the death penalty...so we have to have a clear and consistent definition that involves violence. Again, just my opinion.

Also, regardless of all that, Brit’s comments are still his comments in which he essentially seemed to state it was okay that he coerced oral sex. Even if that didn’t happen that statement is gross.

 

[Gandhi]

We don't know, but I'm 56 years old and I've never in my life heard of a case where that many women accused someone of doing something and they were all lying.

Deshaun Watson finds support from 18 women amid sexual misconduct allegations

Embattled Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson, who is facing 21 lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct against him, is finding support from more than a dozen physical and massage therapists.

www.foxnews.com

Russ, that is a link to an article stating that 18 women, in the same job as the accusers, support Watson and think the accusations are false. I guess that is kind of a reverse perspective to your point.

 

[Gandhi]

But it’s not blindly. I believe some women have come out and made statements. So a reader/listener can make a determination that they believe there’s some level of credibility. Also, you might want to call them “prosecutors” but others might call them “victims.”

Absolutely readers can state that they believe that he is guilty. But that was not the case, as the poster simply stated that he was guilty, and not that the poster only believed that he was.

 

[Chopper0080]

I thought it was well-documented that Russell struggles hitting the intermediate part of the field &, like Kyler, has started really hot, but faded down the stretch the past couple of seasons. Like Kyler, that could be a height problem, but Russell has been known to go deep-or-die which has put a cap on that Seattle offense. He doesn’t have the work ethic concerns or leadership concerns(though I think this gets overrated to a bit), but I don’t think he raises the ceiling that much more than Kyler for this team, especially he is only getting older & slower.

I don't know that I agree but that is fair.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Kyler Murray and Michael Bidwill straight up for Jalen Hurts and Jeffrey Lurie?

 

[Chopper0080]

Why would a team with a "comparable" QB be trading for Kyler? It would either be a much older guy like Rodgers, Wilson, etc...or a guy that may not play again next season (Watson).

The only team that would be willing to trade for Kyler was a team that had a need at QB...thats just common sense.

That being said, I would take Minshew, Smith, Sanders and 3 first rounders for Kyler all day long. The Eagles would laugh us out of the building at that asking price.

The reality is that Kyler is probably worth 2 firsts at most. We are massively over valuing him here. Its pretty crazy to think that Deshaun Watson is older, paid WAY more, and facing a ton of legal issues...and they still wouldn't trade him for Kyler straight up...they would want picks from us.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade Kyler right now...unless he is "demanding' a trade. Its a bad QB draft, and I don't think we would get value for him after his piss poor playoff game. I also wouldn't extend him. I let him play year 4, pick up his 5th year option, and then franchise him. A lot is going to happen in that time. He is either going to become a true franchise QB, or the entire thing will have been blown up (KK and Keim gone) and so we will be looking to rebuild anyway.

First part. Rodgers, Wilson and Watson are probably the only comparable QBs you could get because they all have certain issues despite their play being better than Kyler's.

Second part. Eagles would laugh all the way to the playoffs and the Cardinals would be back to selecting in the top 10 with a GM search and HC search. 3 1st rounders mean nothing without a top QB. Devonta Smith means nothing without a top QB. Miles Sanders is a RB and is limited value. Minshew is a meme and not good at football.

I can be critical of Kyler but he is still one of the top 12 QBs in football. Stupid teams give those players away for a sack of magic beans.

 

[Chopper0080]

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't unless Watson said he would only go to AZ...which wont happen.

If Watson and his team are confident that he will play next year, and that all his legal troubles are civil and will go away...then they will get lots of offers for him.

Until that happens though they will get nothing. No team is going to risk trading for him until the possibility of criminal charges are gone.

Kyler is a Texas legend. His High School career may be a joke on here but it is a real thing in Texas. Houston has negative PR right now. A disgruntled Watson coming back doesn't change that. Houston would get so much more hype and have the best QB in their division. It would completely change the feel of that organization and city in every aspect from marketing to media to the field.

 

[QuebecCard]

I doubt Houston would be willing to do a straight up trade. The Cards should offer Kyler + one 1st round pick for Watson.

Let me help you with this by adding the emoji you forgot:

 

[Russ Smith]

Deshaun Watson finds support from 18 women amid sexual misconduct allegations

Embattled Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson, who is facing 21 lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct against him, is finding support from more than a dozen physical and massage therapists.

www.foxnews.com

Russ, that is a link to an article stating that 18 women, in the same job as the accusers, support Watson and think the accusations are false. I guess that is kind of a reverse perspective to your point.

Sure that's helpful for him but again there are what 23 women making the accusation, 21 of them have now filed suits. It's 1-2 and you've got 18 who say that's not true, that's one thing, 23 said it happened?


I try not to jump to conclusions but when 23 women tell basically the same story, 15 of them I think have said Watson either put their hand on his goods, or put his goods in their hand and asked them to take care of him, either it's a conspiracy and they were all coached, or he did something.

I admit to having a bias in this case I have a friend who was a massage therapist, that's how I met her she was my massage therapist after I broke my elbow i went to her several times the person doing my PT raved about the improvement in my elbow after the massages. My GF and I became friends with her and she told us stories about how common it is for me to assume the massage will include "extras" it's just about money. She finally left the job because she complained about a man, he told her boss that she had propositioned him, the boss took the customers side so she quit. But she insists it's extremely common, it's why I was so mad when they let Robert Kraft get away with it in that case in Florida because "nobody was hurt why go after the guy."

 

[Russ Smith]

Kyler Murray and Michael Bidwill straight up for Jalen Hurts and Jeffrey Lurie?

Jalen Hurts would get us a better draft pick that's for sure.

If we got Jalen Hurts the over under on games before D Hop demands a trade would be 6 maybe. WR's don't like playing with Hurts because first sign of anything he drops his head and looks to run, and when he does throw the ball he's constantly putting Wr's in danger leading them into hits etc.

I think I posted a story at the time Minshew made his first start where reporters were saying nobody wanted to go on the record but the WR's were all smiling in the lockerroom after the game because they remembered what it was like playing with a QB who understood how critical it was to protect receivers.

 

[Gandhi]

I admit to having a bias in this case I have a friend who was a massage therapist, that's how I met her she was my massage therapist after I broke my elbow i went to her several times the person doing my PT raved about the improvement in my elbow after the massages. My GF and I became friends with her and she told us stories about how common it is for me to assume the massage will include "extras" it's just about money. She finally left the job because she complained about a man, he told her boss that she had propositioned him, the boss took the customers side so she quit. But she insists it's extremely common, it's why I was so mad when they let Robert Kraft get away with it in that case in Florida because "nobody was hurt why go after the guy."

It is very understandable that you are a little biased toward this case, Russ. I think I would be too, if I had the same history. But yes, a lot of women say he did it, and a lot of women say he did not. I don't know what to believe.

 

[Garthshort]

Can we just go back to Rosen as QB and start over?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Minshew also played in the Air Raid under Mike Leach...the inventor of it. He also has shown to be pretty effective even on bad teams. 22 starts....41TDs to 12 Ints.

I would take 3 first, Smith, Miles Sanders and Minshew.

Leach might have perfected it but Hal Mumme invented it... just giving credit where credit is due

 

[Jetstream Green]

Sure that's helpful for him but again there are what 23 women making the accusation, 21 of them have now filed suits. It's 1-2 and you've got 18 who say that's not true, that's one thing, 23 said it happened?


I try not to jump to conclusions but when 23 women tell basically the same story, 15 of them I think have said Watson either put their hand on his goods, or put his goods in their hand and asked them to take care of him, either it's a conspiracy and they were all coached, or he did something.

I admit to having a bias in this case I have a friend who was a massage therapist, that's how I met her she was my massage therapist after I broke my elbow i went to her several times the person doing my PT raved about the improvement in my elbow after the massages. My GF and I became friends with her and she told us stories about how common it is for me to assume the massage will include "extras" it's just about money. She finally left the job because she complained about a man, he told her boss that she had propositioned him, the boss took the customers side so she quit. But she insists it's extremely common, it's why I was so mad when they let Robert Kraft get away with it in that case in Florida because "nobody was hurt why go after the guy."

When 23 possibly bad character women wanting money tell basically the same probable simple story, it actually tells me in this day and age there is then a highly possible chance they are lying to make some money. Now if just one is telling the truth, then it means the same and that person deserves justice... but the numbers have just the opposite effect of guilt when I view this

 

[Russ Smith]

When 23 possibly bad character women wanting money tell basically the same probable simple story, it actually tells me in this day and age there is then a highly possible chance they are lying to make some money. Now if just one is telling the truth, then it means the same and that person deserves justice... but the numbers have just the opposite effect of guilt when I view this

Possibly bad character? So the odds are better that 23 women are lying than 1 man is?

The only way I can see where all of these women are lying is if it's a conspiracy involving the lawyer and he told them all what to say. That's certainly possible but it's a pretty big stretch. 21 of them have now filed civil cases which if they went to court would require them to now lie under oath? If they're all lying that's all Watson really has to do, go to court with one of them and make them either lie under oath or admit they were trying to blackmail him for money.

When this story first came out the very first guy I saw talking about it on NFL Network said from an outsider looking in this case looks like an NFL guy who was used to groupies and having a different woman in each city they play in and going to bars and picking up women, and then Covid hit and he was suddenly under team and NFL restrictions and he was trying to figure out another way to satisfy that urge. So he started flying in massage therapists only he found out quickly some of them are willing to do extra for extra money, and many aren't, and the many that aren't started complaining.

I have no idea idea what really happened but the more women that got involved the more likely either it was something like that, or the lawyer for these women was trying to overwhelm him with complaints so he'd just agree to settle.

I hope someday we find out the truth

An interesting aside someone else posted quotes from a therapist who'd worked with him before where she said that's not the guy I know at all, always been professional etc. The interesting thing is when this story FIRST came out, she was actually one of his worst "witnesses" because they came out with texts she'd sent where she was saying that she stopped working with him after over 2 years because he was “bc I was hearing to much stuff about him messing with other people, like other therapist and estheticians. He’s been doing a lot the last 3-4 months.”

She later said that was taken out of context she meant she was worried about Watson because he didn't know the background of these other people, didn't know if they had good intentions or not, and she was afraid they might be out to exploit him. The odd thing was she told the same friend she sent that other text to that she had warned "his A** to be careful BC his name is getting around."

she's insisting it's out of context she was worried about him being taken advantage of or set up but if you read the quotes you can see why they were initially used against him in the early case, because someone who'd worked with him over 2 years seemed to warning him that people were telling stories about what he was doing with these women and he needed to be careful or he was going to get in trouble.

You can take the messages either way but it's pretty odd the way they're worded to me clearly sounds like she was warning him dude your name is out there people know what you're doing you need to stop before you get in big trouble.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When 23 possibly bad character women wanting money tell basically the same probable simple story, it actually tells me in this day and age there is then a highly possible chance they are lying to make some money. Now if just one is telling the truth, then it means the same and that person deserves justice... but the numbers have just the opposite effect of guilt when I view this

What Russ said. The more smoke, the more likely fire. High profile athletes have never been a bastion for good behavior in a general sense, but each individual is due their own fact pattern. But what’s more likely, 23 women are lying or one professional athlete?

 

[Jetstream Green]

What Russ said. The more smoke, the more likely fire. High profile athletes have never been a bastion for good behavior in a general sense, but each individual is due their own fact pattern. But what’s more likely, 23 women are lying or one professional athlete?

Thanks Ouchie for phrasing it better than me. My point is that looking at the numbers might mean he's guilty but probably just with three opposed to the other twenty who might be along for the money. It's a hard life, maybe even more so for some of those women, and they see an opportunity to better their situation. My wording of 'bad' should rather be changed to having a desperate situation can lead to bad acts for survival. My brother who's a doctor has seen his share of questionable character from a few patients but always tells me before one wants to judge you need to ask yourself if you were in their shoes and handed their experience of life can you honestly say you would act any better

 

[Dynomite]

I mean, he literally didn't have sex with any of the 22 women but who needs facts.

You must be registered for see images attach

Ah sexual assault only involves penetration. I’m guessing you’re a boomer.

 

[AZman5103]

Ah sexual assault only involves penetration. I’m guessing you’re a boomer.

Or a lawyer, or a judge

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Or a lawyer, or a judge

Well I doubt you’re an attorney or a judge because sexual assault does not necessarily require penetration. The definition may deviate from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but sexual assault is not the same charge as rape.

For instance here’s California’s penal code:

§ 243.4 PC - Sexual Battery - California Law & Penalties

Sexual battery is defined by Penal Code § 243.4 as touching another's intimate parts without consent and for the purpose of sexual gratification or abuse.

www.shouselaw.com

 

[Gandhi]

After Super Bowl, Deshaun Watson’s deposition now biggest NFL ‘event’

As Deshaun Watson's deposition draws closer, it's the first offseason 'event' that the NFL world will be watching to see what develops.

torotimes.com

I still feel that the Texans is the most logical destination if they decide to move Murray, with Deshaun Watson coming the other way. Murray is a major star in Texas, and Cal McNair need something to make his team relevant to people. Further, Steve Keim is best buddies with Dabo Swinney, so maybe he has some sort of connection to Watson.

Of course, Watson has a no trade-clause in his contract, but I don't really see why he would be against moving to great weather, his favorite wide receiver, and a team that can compete.

That said, if it was a choice between Murray and Kingsbury, I'd choose Murray ten times out of ten.

 

[BritCard]

Ah sexual assault only involves penetration. I’m guessing you’re a boomer.

Nope, because I was referring to rape. Not sexual assault.