The Myth That Mobile QBs Don't Take Sacks/Hits

[Chris_Sanders]

So his ceiling is 2 Super Bowl wins! Sign me up!

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That's as simple of a comment as saying "Trent Dilfer sign me up cause he won a super bowl"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I guess I could live with the Cards only winning 2 Superbowls.

Again if you are going to be simple in your comments...

 

[RON_IN_OC]

That's as simple of a comment as saying "Trent Dilfer sign me up cause he won a super bowl"

TBH, your original comment wasn't exactly complex. So simple is, as simple does.

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[RON_IN_OC]

That's as simple of a comment as saying "Trent Dilfer sign me up cause he won a super bowl"

Oh, and ask Newsome if he made a mistake dumping Dilfer for Grbac...lol That team was set up to win more than it did. They just couldn't accept winning with the defense leading the way.

Just like the Bears after 86...always trying to replace McMahon. That team should have been able to QB manage their way to more Super Bowls, too.

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[BW52]

Saying Murray will be able to avoid hard NFL contact is pure hype and speculation based on avoiding generally mediocre defensive players chasing him.This is the NFl and a whole different talent level than 99.9 % of the guys chasing Murray last season.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

TBH, your original comment wasn't exactly complex. So simple is, as simple does.

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I would encourage you to go read the Rosen Problem thread where I break down all the math and league history behind "career backup floor to best he could possibly be is Eli Manning"

 

[Russ Smith]

Part if the issue is that mobile QBs arent the norm.

John Elway was also a mobile QB as was Brett Favre.

And Aaron Rodgers too. I would argue at the time Elway won he wasn't really mobile anymore, actually check that he won 2 I would say mobile in one not in the other.

 

[Russ Smith]

Saying Murray will be able to avoid hard NFL contact is pure hype and speculation based on avoiding generally mediocre defensive players chasing him.This is the NFl and a whole different talent level than 99.9 % of the guys chasing Murray last season.

Of course it's speculation that's why I keep bringing up lack of experience. But again, Wilson has played 7 full seasons, he's probably stronger than Murray, I'm sure he is, but what he does well, and it infuriates me when we play them, is he gets rid of the ball at the last second to avoid hits, or he goes down, or steps out of bounds. does he take hits sure, it's NFL football, is he getting plowed into regularly no. I really like Josh Rosen, smart kid, great arm, tough, but he took a ton of wicked hits last year and did the same at UCLA. And as the season went on he started throwing off his back foot and throwing pick sixes because he was taking so many big hits. Maybe in the same situation Murray would do that too, my guess is he'd have been sacked just as much, but taken fewer huge hits because he's just harder to hit.

The key is, being elusive is only good if you keep your eyes downfield so you can hit the WR when he opens up because the DB's think you're running. The great ones like Rodgers do that, the ones that don't being elusive doesn't really help that much, maybe turn an 8 yard loss into 4, that's good, but I want the guy who avoids the 8 yard loss and then completes the 25 yarder downfield. Murray just hasn't played enough to know if that's him or not.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This would be an easy call if Rosen had shown anything outside of 2-3 throws a game. Rosen ranked among the worst rookie QBs of this generation, and a lot of this criticism cant be whitewashed as part of the Wilks abomination.

I believe the Cardinals arent going to take Murray, but I think it's not a crazy idea either which is why so many evaluators are talking about it.

 

[Ronin]

I believe the Cardinals arent going to take Murray, but I think it's not a crazy idea either which is why so many evaluators are talking about it.

Agreed.

 

[Russ Smith]

This would be an easy call if Rosen had shown anything outside of 2-3 throws a game. Rosen ranked among the worst rookie QBs of this generation, and a lot of this criticism cant be whitewashed as part of the Wilks abomination.

I believe the Cardinals arent going to take Murray, but I think it's not a crazy idea either which is why so many evaluators are talking about it.

My issue with JOsh is he got worse not better. his first start was really good, take out the drops and it was outstanding. his next 2 were ok, but he got progressively worse, pick sixes, throwing off back foot etc. The game didn't seem to slow down for him. I think the OC was inept, the OL was bad, Wr's sucked and then got hurt, so it was a horrible situation for a rookie QB, but he didn't do anything to show he was learning and improving.

I expect he will this year if he's the starter, but that's based on gut not anything he did on the field.

 

[slanidrac16]

4 out of 5?

Dak is mediocre and the Raiders have been rumored to want to move on from Carr. The jury is still out on Watson but he has been injury prone thus far, possibly because of the fact that he takes so many sacks.



Part of the reason Wilson takes so many sacks is because Seattle's OL has been awful for years. Part of the reason their OL is awful is because their front office doesn't invest in it because they don't feel like it's a priority. Part of the reason they feel that way is because their offense is still productive due to Wilson. It's circular logic and a mistake on their part IMO. It is only going to get worse now that he's a 35m dollar man which is nearly enough money for an entire starting OL.

When you put a talented dual threat QB behind an actual good OL and give him good WRs, the team looks like OK with Murray. The problem is that the NFL has a salary cap unlike college ball, so if you invest that much in your offense, your defense is going to look like...OK's with Murray and you'll end up losing the big games when you face a complete team. What's not good is when you put a QB behind no OL and give him no real WRs and expect him to save your team as a rookie. That's what we gave Rosen and the results spoke for themselves.

Love the last 2 sentences. Kingsbury will make Rosen better. It’s up to the front office to put players around him. We will screw the pooch here and Murray will be our pick. Ticket sales and temporary, false relevance take precedence.

 

[NJCardFan]

Can't you answer your own rhetorical questions that have been asked numerous times ? Lol

If you can't answer then shut that gaping chasm under your nose. My point is that everyone here is creaming their pants over the prospects of a mobile QB when the fact remains that only 1 has ever won the Super Bowl. Hell, Newton got his ass kicked in the SB and most of the mobile QB's don't even get that far.


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[Southpaw]

Carr was the one I was removing. Dak is clearly someone they believe in and he isn't a world beater, but has what it take to be a quality QB, as he has shown. Watson injury was a freak one. Nothing to do with sacks.

I do not believe this claim.

 

[Southpaw]

Watson got hurt on a noncontact play in practice.

Tannehill did also. The result of previous beatings?

 

[dscher]

If you can't answer then shut that gaping chasm under your nose. My point is that everyone here is creaming their pants over the prospects of a mobile QB when the fact remains that only 1 has ever won the Super Bowl. Hell, Newton got his ass kicked in the SB and most of the mobile QB's don't even get that far.


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Is Kyler Murray.. Cam Newton? Can Cam Newton make the same throws he can? Can Cam Newton, to save his life, avoid taking big hits all the time?

And I don't need to answer because you already knew the answer, and so does everyone else. Drum=beaten . ... Hence my post.

 

[dscher]

I do not believe this claim.

He took a hit in a game against the Seahawks with his o lineman being upended into his planted leg. Then showed up to the next practice where it was finally reported. But most claim that it was from that play in the game. They have numerous articles and video showing the hit.

 

[dscher]

This would be an easy call if Rosen had shown anything outside of 2-3 throws a game. Rosen ranked among the worst rookie QBs of this generation, and a lot of this criticism cant be whitewashed as part of the Wilks abomination.

I believe the Cardinals arent going to take Murray, but I think it's not a crazy idea either which is why so many evaluators are talking about it.

The egg on the face is going to happen to one organization for sure... If we pass on Murray and he turns into the next Wilson, it will torture this franchise for decades... Especially if they still can't make Rosen work behind a line that Keim has not fixed in almost a decade. Just too many variables.. makes your head spin. Lol

But I understand this works both ways.. all we can hope for is, no matter what teams they both ultimately end up on... That they both succeed. Imo

 

[bojack]

Russell Wilson has been dealing with horrible protection for the past few years now. The flip side to these stats are that it could have been doubled if that team doesn't have him as QB. Just sayin.

The data the homers compiled on him suggest his legs don't prevent sacks:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...mbling-nfl-average-under-pressure-elusiveness

Outside his rookie season (when he was 12th) his best showing was 6th in sacks. Every other year he has been 4th or higher in sacks. I don't recall any complaints about protection until the last two seasons.

 

[dscher]

The data the homers compiled on him suggest his legs don't prevent sacks:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...mbling-nfl-average-under-pressure-elusiveness

Outside his rookie season (when he was 12th) his best showing was 6th in sacks. Every other year he has been 4th or higher in sacks. I don't recall any complaints about protection until the last two seasons.

I'll concede on the sacks. It is what it is.. But seemingly it doesn't really matter when it comes to wins and losses. 4 of the 5 QBs that lead in sacks last year all are pretty darn good QBs.. imo at least.

 

[bojack]

And every guy you listed either has an awful offensive line or an injured oline (Dak).

Why is Wilson consistently top in sacks throughout most his career and not just this year? Why wasn't Rosen top in sacks being a rookie with arguably one of the worst lines, worst scheme and worst receiving Corp in the league? Rosen didn't have a great completion rate but he also didn't just throw it away every other play.

The point was that many were saying Murray could make up for the deficiencies in our oline and avoid sacks and hits. What it means is it doesn't matter who is under center, your legs won't save your bacon against a great D or a bad oline.

 

[bojack]

Think about this too: Murray's compact build makes him tough to tackle, like a slippery RB. If he falls down on his shoulder or arm, it will be the force just from 5'10 and not from 6'4 like most QBs.

Murray is no Mike Tolbert. Same height but Tolbert carriers the ball head down with a head of steam and extra 70 pounds of pure muscle and pinballs through defenders. Big difference. Did you see when Murray basically get flung by the lineman who got a his out reached hand on just a piece of the sleeve of his jersey. I am looking for the clip. He's goes down pretty easy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Why is Wilson consistently top in sacks throughout most his career and not just this year? Why wasn't Rosen top in sacks being a rookie with arguably one of the worst lines, worst scheme and worst receiving Corp in the league? Rosen didn't have a great completion rate but he also didn't just throw it away every other play.

The point was that many were saying Murray could make up for the deficiencies in our oline and avoid sacks and hits. What it means is it doesn't matter who is under center, your legs won't save your bacon against a great D or a bad oline.

Wilson has had a wretched offensive line his entire career. Awful. Putrid.

 

[Solar7]

Wilson has had a wretched offensive line his entire career. Awful. Putrid.

Not true. His offensive line in his early career was incredible, inclusive of a still awesome Russel Okung and Max Unger. Not to mention his insanely strong running game with Marshawn Lynch.

 

[dscher]

Murray is no Mike Tolbert. Same height but Tolbert carriers the ball head down with a head of steam and extra 70 pounds of pure muscle and pinballs through defenders. Big difference. Did you see when Murray basically get flung by the lineman who got a his out reached hand on just a piece of the sleeve of his jersey. I am looking for the clip. He's goes down pretty easy.

The key is getting your hands on him..as evident in his college games. This is no different then Wilson. When defenders get their hands on him he can get tossed around pretty well. Anyone who isn't big Ben is subject to this in reality. Imo