The Myth That Mobile QBs Don't Take Sacks/Hits

[bojack]

I already had to bust the myth that the game has totally gone offense friendly and defense is second fiddle, so let's keep busting more of these intuitions.

I keep hearing this argument as a counterpoint to Murray's size - he won't get touched because he is so mobile, being compared to Wilson, Watson and Rodgers.

You are probably thinking Rosen led the league in sacks last year with our terrible OL and playbook, but he was only 7th in sacks.

Here are the QBs in order who took the most sacks...

Watson
Dak
Carr
Wilson
Rodgers

Wilson, who people most often try to compare Murray to as a reason he won't get touched much, consistently ranks in the top 4 of most sacks year after year.

There was a very in-depth analysis on Wilson on how he is statistically less productive in scramble mode than playing the pocket passer. Yes it looks amazing on a highlight when it works out, but it was a comprehensive breakdown that showed him being flushed was a detriment and not an asset.

 

[Solar7]

No bojack, you don't get it. Kyler Murray is better than all of these quarterbacks combined. Have you seen how the Flash moves so fast sometimes he phases through things? Same with Murray. The ball will be snapped, and he'll human joystick his way to a touchdown on every. single. play.

Honestly, we can cut the rest of the offensive line besides Mason Cole and AQ Shipley, and only because one of those guys has to snap the ball and might injure themselves answering the phone.

 

[dscher]

I haven't seen any Murray supporters claim this..could be wrong though. If anything, that list shows that 4 out of 5 of those qbs are franchise type players that make their teams better. So maybe that stat doesn't really mean much at the end of the day. As they say, there are good sacks and bad sacks. As gimpy mentioned, people will make numbers be what they want them to be. The context of those numbers and stats is what matters most. Imo. Not trying to take a shot at ya or anything..just saying, we can't use them all as apples to apples. Russell Wilson has been dealing with horrible protection for the past few years now. The flip side to these stats are that it could have been doubled if that team doesn't have him as QB. Just sayin.

 

[GatorAZ]

I’m equally worried about both guys durability. Rosen is bigger and has proven NFL toughness but he’s taking a pounding every year since HS. You can be tough as nails but the beating have added up from such a young age for him.

Murray seems like a smart runner but how decisive will he be in the pocket? He was never really pressured and felt comfortable waiting for guys to get open. That won’t be the case in the pros. Will he be able to throw balls away or will he push the envelope with his legs? Running around dodging rushers will look exciting but won’t do anything for his development.

 

[BirdDroppings]

I haven't seen any Murray supporters claim this..could be wrong though. If anything, that list shows that 4 out of 5 of those qbs are franchise type players that make their teams better. So maybe that stat doesn't really mean much at the end of the day. As they say, there are good sacks and bad sacks. As gimpy mentioned, people will make numbers be what they want them to be. The context of those numbers and stats is what matters most. Imo. Not trying to take a shot at ya or anything..just saying, we can't use them all as apples to apples. Russell Wilson has been dealing with horrible protection for the past few years now. The flip side to these stats are that it could have been doubled if that team doesn't have him as QB. Just sayin.

4 out of 5?

Dak is mediocre and the Raiders have been rumored to want to move on from Carr. The jury is still out on Watson but he has been injury prone thus far, possibly because of the fact that he takes so many sacks.



Part of the reason Wilson takes so many sacks is because Seattle's OL has been awful for years. Part of the reason their OL is awful is because their front office doesn't invest in it because they don't feel like it's a priority. Part of the reason they feel that way is because their offense is still productive due to Wilson. It's circular logic and a mistake on their part IMO. It is only going to get worse now that he's a 35m dollar man which is nearly enough money for an entire starting OL.

When you put a talented dual threat QB behind an actual good OL and give him good WRs, the team looks like OK with Murray. The problem is that the NFL has a salary cap unlike college ball, so if you invest that much in your offense, your defense is going to look like...OK's with Murray and you'll end up losing the big games when you face a complete team. What's not good is when you put a QB behind no OL and give him no real WRs and expect him to save your team as a rookie. That's what we gave Rosen and the results spoke for themselves.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’m equally worried about both guys durability. Rosen is bigger and has proven NFL toughness but he’s taking a pounding every year since HS. You can be tough as nails but the beating have added up from such a young age for him.

Murray seems like a smart runner but how decisive will he be in the pocket? He was never really pressured and felt comfortable waiting for guys to get open. That won’t be the case in the pros. Will he be able to throw balls away or will he push the envelope with his legs? Running around dodging rushers will look exciting but won’t do anything for his development.

This is fair. No one said Murray won't be touched. He might be able to prolong the play with his running ability but this remains to be seen.

 

[dscher]

4 out of 5?

Dak is mediocre and the Raiders have been rumored to want to move on from Carr. The jury is still out on Watson but he has been injury prone thus far, possibly because of the fact that he takes so many sacks.



Part of the reason Wilson takes so many sacks is because Seattle's OL has been awful for years. Part of the reason their OL is awful is because their front office doesn't invest in it because they don't feel like it's a priority. Part of the reason they feel that way is because their offense is still productive due to Wilson. It's circular logic and a mistake on their part IMO. It is only going to get worse now that he's a 35m dollar man which is nearly enough money for an entire starting OL.

When you put a talented dual threat QB behind an actual good OL and give him good WRs, the team looks like OK with Murray. The problem is that the NFL has a salary cap unlike college ball, so if you invest that much in your offense, your defense is going to look like...OK's with Murray and you'll end up losing the big games when you face a complete team. What's not good is when you put a QB behind no OL and give him no real WRs and expect him to save your team as a rookie. That's what we gave Rosen and the results spoke for themselves.

Carr was the one I was removing. Dak is clearly someone they believe in and he isn't a world beater, but has what it take to be a quality QB, as he has shown. Watson injury was a freak one. Nothing to do with sacks.

 

[dscher]

I’m equally worried about both guys durability. Rosen is bigger and has proven NFL toughness but he’s taking a pounding every year since HS. You can be tough as nails but the beating have added up from such a young age for him.

Murray seems like a smart runner but how decisive will he be in the pocket? He was never really pressured and felt comfortable waiting for guys to get open. That won’t be the case in the pros. Will he be able to throw balls away or will he push the envelope with his legs? Running around dodging rushers will look exciting but won’t do anything for his development.

All great questions.. its a real dilemma. Which is why ,imo of course, I just think Keim needs to painfully remove himself from the decision and trust his new head coach he hired to implement the best offense he can put on the field...and let him choose the QB he feels will help him win the most games. If it's Kyler, great.. but if we pass and go with Rosen, then to me it means KK sees something he can work with. Id hate it if KK really wanted Murray but Keim put the kabash on it.. but I'm assuming this was talked about and worked out before he was hired.

 

[NJCardFan]

How many mobile QB's have won a Super Bowl? In 53 championship games, all I can think of is Wilson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dscher]

How many mobile QB's have won a Super Bowl? In 53 championship games, all I can think of is Wilson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't you answer your own rhetorical questions that have been asked numerous times ? Lol

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I already had to bust the myth that the game has totally gone offense friendly and defense is second fiddle, so let's keep busting more of these intuitions.

I keep hearing this argument as a counterpoint to Murray's size - he won't get touched because he is so mobile, being compared to Wilson, Watson and Rodgers.

You are probably thinking Rosen led the league in sacks last year with our terrible OL and playbook, but he was only 7th in sacks.

Here are the QBs in order who took the most sacks...

Watson
Dak
Carr
Wilson
Rodgers

Wilson, who people most often try to compare Murray to as a reason he won't get touched much, consistently ranks in the top 4 of most sacks year after year.

There was a very in-depth analysis on Wilson on how he is statistically less productive in scramble mode than playing the pocket passer. Yes it looks amazing on a highlight when it works out, but it was a comprehensive breakdown that showed him being flushed was a detriment and not an asset.

One I may add wouldn't the holding penalties go up also because of the line trying to protect him and not knowing where he was would lead them to grab anything they can get?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You are probably thinking Rosen led the league in sacks last year with our terrible OL and playbook, but he was only 7th in sacks.

I just want to leave this here for the Rosen apologist squad.

A fair percentage of my like of Murray is the realization that Rosen's ceiling is Eli Manning and his floor is career backup

 

[Krangodnzr]

4 out of 5?

Dak is mediocre and the Raiders have been rumored to want to move on from Carr. The jury is still out on Watson but he has been injury prone thus far, possibly because of the fact that he takes so many sacks.



Part of the reason Wilson takes so many sacks is because Seattle's OL has been awful for years. Part of the reason their OL is awful is because their front office doesn't invest in it because they don't feel like it's a priority. Part of the reason they feel that way is because their offense is still productive due to Wilson. It's circular logic and a mistake on their part IMO. It is only going to get worse now that he's a 35m dollar man which is nearly enough money for an entire starting OL.

When you put a talented dual threat QB behind an actual good OL and give him good WRs, the team looks like OK with Murray. The problem is that the NFL has a salary cap unlike college ball, so if you invest that much in your offense, your defense is going to look like...OK's with Murray and you'll end up losing the big games when you face a complete team. What's not good is when you put a QB behind no OL and give him no real WRs and expect him to save your team as a rookie. That's what we gave Rosen and the results spoke for themselves.

Watson got hurt on a noncontact play in practice.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I already had to bust the myth that the game has totally gone offense friendly and defense is second fiddle, so let's keep busting more of these intuitions.

I keep hearing this argument as a counterpoint to Murray's size - he won't get touched because he is so mobile, being compared to Wilson, Watson and Rodgers.

You are probably thinking Rosen led the league in sacks last year with our terrible OL and playbook, but he was only 7th in sacks.

Here are the QBs in order who took the most sacks...

Watson
Dak
Carr
Wilson
Rodgers

Wilson, who people most often try to compare Murray to as a reason he won't get touched much, consistently ranks in the top 4 of most sacks year after year.

There was a very in-depth analysis on Wilson on how he is statistically less productive in scramble mode than playing the pocket passer. Yes it looks amazing on a highlight when it works out, but it was a comprehensive breakdown that showed him being flushed was a detriment and not an asset.

And every guy you listed either has an awful offensive line or an injured oline (Dak).

 

[Veer]

Even if Murray gets sacked a ton like the mobile QBs mentioned, he won't be a sitting duck getting hit by a truck like Rosen. Always better you are chased down on the move, give up yourself or go out of bounds, rather than being drilled standing firm in the ground.

Think about this too: Murray's compact build makes him tough to tackle, like a slippery RB. If he falls down on his shoulder or arm, it will be the force just from 5'10 and not from 6'4 like most QBs.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Even if Murray gets sacked a ton like the mobile QBs mentioned, he won't be a sitting duck getting hit by a truck like Rosen. Always better you are chased down on the move, give up yourself or go out of bounds, rather than being drilled standing firm in the ground.

Think about this too: Murray's compact build makes him tough to tackle, like a slippery RB. If he falls down on his shoulder or arm, it will be the force just from 5'10 and not from 6'4 like most QBs.

And...

Murray uses every opportunity to slide. No fighting for extra yards unless its absolutely necessary.

 

[Garthshort]

bojack, I assume you were out of the country through last season and missed the play of Josh Rosen. In a week's time Tyler Murray will be drafted by the Cardinals. Get over it. And even if he's terrible we'll be no worse off at QB. Hopefully, Rosen can get us something in a trade.

 

[cardpa]

Even if Murray gets sacked a ton like the mobile QBs mentioned, he won't be a sitting duck getting hit by a truck like Rosen. Always better you are chased down on the move, give up yourself or go out of bounds, rather than being drilled standing firm in the ground.

Think about this too: Murray's compact build makes him tough to tackle, like a slippery RB. If he falls down on his shoulder or arm, it will be the force just from 5'10 and not from 6'4 like most QBs.

Huh?, this makes no sense at all.

 

[Russ Smith]

I already had to bust the myth that the game has totally gone offense friendly and defense is second fiddle, so let's keep busting more of these intuitions.

I keep hearing this argument as a counterpoint to Murray's size - he won't get touched because he is so mobile, being compared to Wilson, Watson and Rodgers.

You are probably thinking Rosen led the league in sacks last year with our terrible OL and playbook, but he was only 7th in sacks.

Here are the QBs in order who took the most sacks...

Watson
Dak
Carr
Wilson
Rodgers

Wilson, who people most often try to compare Murray to as a reason he won't get touched much, consistently ranks in the top 4 of most sacks year after year.

There was a very in-depth analysis on Wilson on how he is statistically less productive in scramble mode than playing the pocket passer. Yes it looks amazing on a highlight when it works out, but it was a comprehensive breakdown that showed him being flushed was a detriment and not an asset.

It's not that he doesn't get hit or sacked, it's that he doesn't take BIG hits, career ending hits.

Wilson has played 7 seasons in the NFL, and started 16 games all 7 years. That's VERY rare. Tom Brady does it completely differently he gets rid of the ball so quickly you can't get shots on him. Wilson does it his way he moves just enough to avoid the big hit. Yes he gets sacked often, lots of us have been pointing that out for years, but he doesn't get those huge hits that end careers. Running QB's do, mobile QB's don't they avoid them. It's like a skilled boxer they get hit, but they don't take big hits.

That's what I see of Murray, and yes his OL is great and Wr's are wide open but when he does move, he does it with a purpose and then he either gets down, goes out of bounds, or throws the ball and avoids the hit.

Doesn't mean his size won't be an issue it certainly could be, but unless it's some sort of cheap shot I don't see him taking huge hits as being the problem.

 

[Russ Smith]

How many mobile QB's have won a Super Bowl? In 53 championship games, all I can think of is Wilson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait what? Joe Montana won 5, Steve Young won one where he had 6 TD passes 0 INT's and ran for 50 yards in the game.

 

[HeHasRosen]

It's not that he doesn't get hit or sacked, it's that he doesn't take BIG hits, career ending hits.

Wilson has played 7 seasons in the NFL, and started 16 games all 7 years. That's VERY rare. Tom Brady does it completely differently he gets rid of the ball so quickly you can't get shots on him. Wilson does it his way he moves just enough to avoid the big hit. Yes he gets sacked often, lots of us have been pointing that out for years, but he doesn't get those huge hits that end careers. Running QB's do, mobile QB's don't they avoid them. It's like a skilled boxer they get hit, but they don't take big hits.

That's what I see of Murray, and yes his OL is great and Wr's are wide open but when he does move, he does it with a purpose and then he either gets down, goes out of bounds, or throws the ball and avoids the hit.

Doesn't mean his size won't be an issue it certainly could be, but unless it's some sort of cheap shot I don't see him taking huge hits as being the problem.

I think Wilson is just a tough SOB. Some guys are just more durable than others. He has played through injury multiple times. Murray will get hit. And he will take big hits. Its not if, its when. All QBs take a big hit at some point. A knock on Murray is he doesn't feel pressure well. He will have to improve this aspect of his game if he wants to be successful at the next level.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wait what? Joe Montana won 5, Steve Young won one where he had 6 TD passes 0 INT's and ran for 50 yards in the game.

Part if the issue is that mobile QBs arent the norm.

John Elway was also a mobile QB as was Brett Favre.

 

[Harry]

I just want to leave this here for the Rosen apologist squad.

A fair percentage of my like of Murray is the realization that Rosen's ceiling is Eli Manning and his floor is career backup

I guess I could live with the Cards only winning 2 Superbowls.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Mobile QBs suck. I wouldn't want a guy like Russell Wilson, McNabb, ect. I want a statue dammit.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I just want to leave this here for the Rosen apologist squad.

A fair percentage of my like of Murray is the realization that Rosen's ceiling is Eli Manning and his floor is career backup

So his ceiling is 2 Super Bowl wins! Sign me up!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk