The NBA is broken.

[AzStevenCal]

But the other thing not counted is the long rebounds. Much better chance of getting an offensive rebound from a 3.

True but I'm not sure that's as true for corner 3's. I haven't done any research but it seems to me that most of the deep offensive rebounds occur on shots above the extended free throw line.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just eliminate the 3 point line entirely

The whole idea that a basket is worth more just because it is further away is whacked

It was a long shot idea intended to help fix the game without throwing a lot of money into the fix. The real fix needed to be expanding the court and raising the hoop but the court expansion was always deemed to be too impractical.

 

[Hoop Head]

It was a long shot idea intended to help fix the game without throwing a lot of money into the fix. The real fix needed to be expanding the court and raising the hoop but the court expansion was always deemed to be too impractical.

Court expansion now would be too costly in terms of adjusting arenas as well as sacrificing high dollar seating. Unfortunately they have the "preservation of the game" argument now also since they allowed something to go unaddressed for too long.

It feels like yesterday the NBA was celebrating 50 years and now we're almost at 80. Even for the Suns, traded for Barkley and that was year 25 to now when they drafted Aaron was year 50 but Aaron has long since finished his rookie contract and we're closer to 60 than his rookie campaign.

 

[Dback Jon]

It was a long shot idea intended to help fix the game without throwing a lot of money into the fix. The real fix needed to be expanding the court and raising the hoop but the court expansion was always deemed to be too impractical.

Then they need to move it back and eliminate the corner three to make it an actual skill shot that rewards a minority of the players versus everyone chucking threes

 

[GatorAZ]

There is no question 90's and 2000's NBA was a much better product.

The reason we have superstars is they do something spectacular - shooting a 3 isn't that spectacular unless you are Curry and can dribble in a circle and hurl it in a half second and it miraculously will go in. He's about the only one that can do that though.

I’d say 94-04’ was an awful product we just didn’t know it. The NBA was in big trouble going into the 2000’s.

 

[Suns_fan69]

There is no question 90's and 2000's NBA was a much better product.

The reason we have superstars is they do something spectacular - shooting a 3 isn't that spectacular unless you are Curry and can dribble in a circle and hurl it in a half second and it miraculously will go in. He's about the only one that can do that though.

Hard disagree there. The iso heavy defensive slugfests of the late 90s and early 2000s were too far in the opposite direction. Peak basketball for me were late 80s to early 90s and then mid 2000s to mid 2010s.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Court expansion now would be too costly in terms of adjusting arenas as well as sacrificing high dollar seating. Unfortunately they have the "preservation of the game" argument now also since they allowed something to go unaddressed for too long.

It feels like yesterday the NBA was celebrating 50 years and now we're almost at 80. Even for the Suns, traded for Barkley and that was year 25 to now when they drafted Aaron was year 50 but Aaron has long since finished his rookie contract and we're closer to 60 than his rookie campaign.

I know, that's what I meant when I said it was deemed impractical. And these changes/costs would have had to filter down to every other level too.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’d say 94-04’ was an awful product we just didn’t know it. The NBA was in big trouble going into the 2000’s.

It was, and IMO it was by far the worst era of basketball in my lifetime. Although I'm not sure that "we just didn't know it". It was talked about quite a bit at the time.

 

[GatorAZ]

It was, and IMO it was by far the worst era of basketball in my lifetime. Although I'm not sure that "we just didn't know it". It was talked about quite a bit at the time.

We knew MJ coming back saved the NBA from being hockey in the US. The CBA was also nuts. #1 picks could be unrestricted after 3-4 years. Shaq left Orlando, Webber Golden St and Duncan nearly left for Orlando in 2000. Crazy to think about someone like Wemby being able to hit FA in 2026.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i applaud the aggressive, progressive approach of this thread to improve the entertainment value of the game. Dealing with 3's is a good start but, unfortunately:

1. reducing the 3pt line to the back-court area would have the opposite effect because defenses could cover it more effectively.
2. we need the 3 late in games to keep the losing team in it. In fact, i'd add a 4pt shot from half-court so there's a remote chance before the buzzer sounds. A way of limiting 3's might be good, but not in the 4th.

the greatest thing about a football game is the variety of ways an opponent can come-back in the end

 

[Dback Jon]

i applaud the aggressive, progressive approach of this thread to improve the entertainment value of the game. Dealing with 3's is a good start but, unfortunately:

1. reducing the 3pt line to the back-court area would have the opposite effect because defenses could cover it more effectively.
2. we need the 3 late in games to keep the losing team in it. In fact, i'd add a 4pt shot from half-court so there's a remote chance before the buzzer sounds. A way of limiting 3's might be good, but not in the 4th.

the greatest thing about a football game is the variety of ways an opponent can come-back in the end

So in football term, a 50 yard pass play should be worth eight points a kick off return for a touchdown. Should be worth 10 points.

A 1 yard run should only be worth four points

 

[Hoop Head]

i applaud the aggressive, progressive approach of this thread to improve the entertainment value of the game. Dealing with 3's is a good start but, unfortunately:

1. reducing the 3pt line to the back-court area would have the opposite effect because defenses could cover it more effectively.
2. we need the 3 late in games to keep the losing team in it. In fact, i'd add a 4pt shot from half-court so there's a remote chance before the buzzer sounds. A way of limiting 3's might be good, but not in the 4th.

the greatest thing about a football game is the variety of ways an opponent can come-back in the end

1 isn't a negative so much as the intent. Make is easier to defend, make the offense adjust. Good players/teams will.

2 heaves from halfcourt or beyond being worth 4 would only cause more ridiculousness. It's not entertaining to watch guys like Ayton* in warmups chuck halfcourt shots for 5-10 minutes. It wouldn't improve the game from a spectator perspective. A 4 point line shouldn't even be up for discussion until the game is improved from a viewer perspective now and largely those who have tuned out point to how it's become a 3pt contest instead of the game they remember.

*which is what he did regularly, good riddance

 

[boisesuns]

I started losing interest during the bubble along with many of the challenges in 2020, most sports really took a back seat and you could say my diehard status was removed. We got the carrot of the finals run only to fumble it away. (Typical suns)

I’ve been more into college football with Boise States success this year, but even that sport has turned into a giant mess with paying players and transfers.

For me the NBA will probably be like college basketball: turn it on in the postseason if it looks interesting

 

[somethingshesaid]

I also hate that the NBA's idea of a winning offense is to chuck three-point shots. I believe Mike Budenholzer should not be the current Suns coach in the first place, because he is trying to make Devin Booker do more of that and fewer of the mid-range shots he specializes in. He's unwisely trying to fit Devin Booker into a system rather than fitting the system to Booker. He's Devin Booker, not Stephon Curry. And wanting big men to be three-point chuckers is ridiculous. That's a waste of their physical stature, unless they're just oversized glorified guards like Bol Bol.

I keep up with Suns progress because I care about the Suns, not because I still like the NBA.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Here is why things will probably change in the near future: money. the NBA's ratings are supposedly down. I know the TV deal is already signed but lower ratings will harm prospects for the next one. The NBA doesn't care about anything but money. Money was prrrobably why this obnoxious trend of three-point-heavy offense started in the first place. Think about it: players banging near the basket, as in the 90s, probably cost teams mo' money because players got injured more easily (and ratings theoretically might suffer). They probably get injured less chucking endless three-point shots; if so, that saves their teams and the league money.

I might also explain that the main reason I detest the normalization of the three-point shot is simple: it took away the romance of the three. It's not special anymore. If a team claws its way back into a game and wins due to three-point shots, so what. It probably happens all the the time now, and was probably why the other team was leading in the first place. That team was hotter from long-distance; then they went cold while the losing team heated up.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is why things will probably change in the near future: money. the NBA's ratings are supposedly down. I know the TV deal is already signed but lower ratings will harm prospects for the next one. The NBA doesn't care about anything but money. There is no point in linking to my source, because the article is locked behind a paywall.

Money was prrrobably why this obnoxious trend of three-point-heavy offense started in the first place. Think about it: players banging near the basket, as in the 90s, probably cost teams mo' money because players got injured more easily (and ratings theoretically might suffer). They probably get injured less chucking endless three-point shots; if so, that saves their teams and the league money.

IMO, the new CBA has diminished interest in the larger markets because wealthier NBA teams are no longer able to spend to improve their teams with all the restrictions. Parity may not the answer in the NBA like it is in the NFL.

In regard to injuries, there seems to be more injuries today in the NBA than ever before, so I don't think the three point shot has lessened that problem.

 

[somethingshesaid]

In regard to injuries, there seems to be more injuries today in the NBA than ever before, so I don't think the three point shot has lessened that problem.

Yeah, but they seem to be less serious. Fewer players suffering ACL tears or other career-threatening injuries. To remember the last time the Suns had a devastating injury that took a player out of the season/series or even kept the player out for a long time, I would have to go all the way back to Dario Saric. That injury during the 2021 NBA finals that largely ended his Suns career, just as I was starting to pay attention again. I didn't know yet who Dario Saric was. Since then, the Suns players keep losing handfuls of games but not large parts of the season. As far I recall, I note that Devin Booker has never ruined a knee, broken a hand or foot, etc. Certainly not recently.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, but they seem to be less serious. Fewer players suffering ACL tears or other career-threatening injuries. To remember the last time the Suns had a devastating injury that took a player out of the season/series or even kept the player out for a long time, I would have to go all the way back to Dario Saric. That injury during the 2021 NBA finals that largely ended his Suns career, just as I was starting to pay attention again. I didn't know yet who Dario Saric was. Since then, the Suns players keep losing handfuls of games but not large parts of the season. As far I recall, I note that Devin Booker has never ruined a knee, broken a hand or foot, etc. Certainly not recently.

I think one has to look at all 30 teams, not just one.

I'm not going to look through injury reports to confirm it, but a lot of NBA players are out for the season or have serious injuries.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Although the 3 point shot is hurting the game, consider the shape it was in before they started down that path. I have no desire to see us return to the late 90's/early 00's basketball. IOW, I don't think changing the 3 point line is going to fix what ails the game. But moving the line back and doing away with the corner 3's is a good start.

More than anything though we need more consistent refereeing and we need to put an end to the superstar calls. Crack down hard on players (and coaches) that try to entice bad calls from the officials. Stop letting offensive players create contact to draw fouls, stop the illegal dribbles and all forms of traveling and things like that. I especially want them to return to the point where they judge contact based on whether the initiator gained an advantage as a result of the the contact. IOW back to the "no harm, no foul" interpretation.

I'd also reduce by at least one the number of fouls you can draw before disqualification. I want a higher percentage of fouls that are committed to be called but I also want fouling to be costly enough to legislate it out of the game a bit. Hopefully that will reduce the total number of free throws per game and maybe put an end to the long, drawn out final minutes of so many games. Yes those kind of finishes are exciting but it's training fans to think of the first 40 to 45 minutes as irrelevant and ultimately skippable.

 

[95pro]

There is no question 90's and 2000's NBA was a much better product.

The reason we have superstars is they do something spectacular - shooting a 3 isn't that spectacular unless you are Curry and can dribble in a circle and hurl it in a half second and it miraculously will go in. He's about the only one that can do that though.

Players were more cerebral; taking 1 or 2 dribbles to get a shot up or to the rim; when, where and who to attack...

now spread court, make illegal screens to free up anyone to jack up a shot.

 

[Hoop Head]

Players were more cerebral; taking 1 or 2 dribbles to get a shot up or to the rim; when, where and who to attack...

now spread court, make illegal screens to free up anyone to jack up a shot.

Man, if they just called illegal screens consistently we'd see a change for the better. Some guys like Draymond Green though have a made a career out of illegal screens. In GS they get away with a lot because Steph fires up shots so quick off a screen that attention move to him rather than watching the screener.

 

[Proximo]

Hard disagree there. The iso heavy defensive slugfests of the late 90s and early 2000s were too far in the opposite direction. Peak basketball for me were late 80s to early 90s and then mid 2000s to mid 2010s.

I think you are actually agreeing with me since early 90's and mid 2000's are actually in the 90-s to 2000's.

I did not say any particular year was the best, just that that entire time period was better than today - and it was I don't care what year you pick in those 2 decades.