The NBA is in real trouble

cardsunsfan

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sly fly said:
You can take Stephon Marbury or Jason Kidd and they would dominate at the RB or QB position in the NFL.

Charles Barkley would have been a tough SOB at TE. Jordan as a WR. The list could go on and on.

Could you say the same thing about Vick (or most others?) playing PG for an NBA team?

I doubt those two players would dominate at those two positions. How do you know Marbury or Kidd would dominate at being QB? You think being a QB is that easy to do? They probably can throw the ball far enough and who knows if they have the brain for it.

RB is a very physical position and I don't know if either of them could take the pounding.
 

cardsunsfan

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Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
yeah, but you see, we don't know if he's "ultra fast." just b/c someone is fast w/ the ball in their hands don't mean they have speed. he prolly runs a 4.8 forty.

not to mention that 6'8 frame would be a mighty inviting target coming across the middle! he'd get bent in two.

yup 6'8 guys don't normally run very fast...
 

slinslin

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You questioned wether the NBA had athletes like Michael Vick and said that the NFL players are generally more athletic.
Who cares if they are skilled? This doesn't have anything to do with their athletic ability.
Do you think Michael Vick could beat someone off the dribble and hit a jumpshot consistently?
 

cardsunsfan

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ok I can't think of someone that is 6'8 and runs really fast. Football players overall I think are more athletic when you get to a certain height you often lose certain skills like speed.
 

cardsunsfan

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Oh and Charles Barkley wouldn't be able to play tight end...he definitely wouldn't be fast enough.
 

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The day they start enforcing traveling is the day I'll get interested in the NBA again. And It bugs me that stars get the kid glove treatment when it comes to fouls. I'll take the college game over the NBA anyday.
 

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Lebron was a QB in high school for 3 years. Varsity from his freshman year. Supposedly, he loved playing football almost as much as basketball, however he was just better at basketball. He had to stop playing his senior year because of the injury risks.
 

sly fly

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SunCardfan said:
Oh and Charles Barkley wouldn't be able to play tight end...he definitely wouldn't be fast enough.

Tell me you're just kidding.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Here is an article claiming Aigne is the best athlete ever in the NBA, I found it interesting.


Would you pick Ainge over MJ?
By Rob Ryder
Special to Page 2


So my friend Nigel pawned this Professional Bowlers Association commercial off on me. He'd been called to do a Nike spot up in Sacramento with LeBron and had to catch a 10 a.m. flight, so I said I'd cover for him. An easy 500 bucks. A piece of cake.


It's some streetballers going three-on-three in a park. But with a bowling ball. No dribbling here. They're supposed to run a little play -- pass and screen away for a teammate who curls into the paint, catches the bowling ball and then flings it up and through a glass backboard, which explodes into smithereens.


I haven't read the script, but the gist of it is: Look, bowlers are athletes, too. Or some crap like that. Not that it matters. The whole issue of what constitutes an athlete only exists because sports editors need to fill space. It can occasionally make for some lively conversation, though.



Hold on now -- has there ever been a better athlete than Michael Jordan?
Here's one I'd never heard. I was hanging out on the set with my friend and mentor, Ron Shelton (director of "White Men Can't Jump"). It went something like this: Someone said, "Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the world."


Ron immediately fired up. "That's bulls$%&!!!," he growled. (With Shelton, it isn't worth discussing if you can't growl about it.) "Michael Jordan is an amazing physical specimen who advanced one game to its highest level. But no way he's the best athlete in the world."


"Who is, then?" someone asked.


"Why not Danny Ainge?"


"Danny Ainge? Danny Ainge!!???"


"You mean Danny Ainge the whiner?"


"That Danny Ainge?"


"Yeah," said Ron. "For starters, Danny Ainge has two NBA rings as a member of the Celtics. He shot almost 50 percent from the floor."


"What'd Jordan shoot?"


"About the same," said Ron.


"So you're sayin' Ainge was good as Michael?" someone foolishly inquired.


"Did I say that!? I didn't say that!" yelled Ron.


"Bob Cousy only shot 37 percent," I threw in to deflect the heat.


"And they say players today can't shoot," someone added.


"Look," said Ron. "We're talking greatest athlete, not basketball player. Athlete. And before the Celtics, Danny Ainge actually played Major League Baseball. Three years with the Blue Jays. Something Jordan didn't come close to."


"Yeah, but Ainge couldn't hit, either."


"It's a matter of degree," barked Ron. "Ainge was 10 times the baseball player that Michael Jordan was. And last -- he's a scratch golfer. Do you know how tough that is?"


I didn't know (having sworn off golf years earlier as just one more unnecessary pursuit that was bound to make me crazy), but I knew we were gonna find out. Shelton, you'll remember, directed "Tin Cup" and is a fine golfer, himself.


"How tough?" someone asked.


"Ask Michael Jordan," answered Ron.



You could actually make an argument that Danny Ainge was a better athlete than MJ.
The PBA shoot is at a little pocket park in Burbank, just up from the Disney lot. Nigel's strolling across the court, talking into his cell phone (is he never?). The director and crew are off on a tennis court, shooting a sequence where a player tries to serve a bowling ball. It's really stupid, but it's a commercial and you know before you hit the remote you're gonna wait and see what happens. So in that sense, it's gonna work better than 95 percent of the commercials out there.


Nigel nods hello and pulls out a couple of pages of storyboards for the basketball sequence. They're crude, shot-by-shot drawings of how the scene will unfold. Shot: player No. 1 with bowling ball at top of key, being defended. Shot: player passing ball. Shot: player No. 2 catching the ball and falling on his ass. Like that.


On the back, Nigel has scribbled out a plausible play that gets all the players to their spots for the last shot, where Player No. 3 throws the bowling ball through the glass backboard. (And the last time you saw glass backboards in a city park was when??? Not that it matters. It's a commercial.)


The players start to straggle in.


"Where'd you find these guys?" I ask Nigel.


"Two of them are actors. They got cast. The other four, you know ... here and there."


Two young white men come through the gate, one about 5-foot-7, five days' growth, Italian-looking; the other, tall and fair like Keith Van Horn but even softer. Then four black men -- tattooed, muscled -- show up on the court with that slow walk that says they're at home.


"Lemme guess who's who," I say to Nigel, and we both laugh.


Nigel introduces me, and the short white guy immediately pulls me off to the side.


"Look, I'm not really a basketball player, but ..."


"It's cool," I say. "It's a commercial. We're playing with a bowling ball."


"Yeah, yeah, okay," he says. "I did play some football."


They all played some football.


Nigel checks his cell for the time. "I gotta go catch a plane."


I pull the players together. "All right, let's take a look at this."


We rough out the scene; and right away, I can tell that one of the authentic black players (the biggest, meanest guy, of course) doesn't like taking direction. Oh, man. Why do people take jobs like this if they don't like being told what to do? Maybe it's a coach he once had. Maybe he's just hung-over. Maybe it's a racial thing -- with all the headlines about Rush, Strom and Rasheed, the possibility does exist.


But most likely, it's that NBA syndrome. Every good basketball player I've met is certain he belongs in the NBA. And when you find yourself in some crappy park in Burbank in the hot sun working as an extra in a commercial instead, it can make you a little surly. This guy is surly. Maybe I'll tell him Danny Ainge is a better athlete than Michael Jordan.


But suddenly, I've got a bigger problem. It's some scruffy looking guy walking up from the tennis courts.


"Where's Nigel?" he asks.


Uh oh. Luckily, I'd had a moment to watch the tennis sequence and figure out that this was the director. You can be on some sets for an hour before you figure out who's directing the thing. The Assistant Director is usually the guy barking all the orders. Then there are always all sorts of people hanging out acting important: producers, associate producers, co-producers, executive producers, line producers. And most of them are dressed like they're still in college, so it's hard to tell who's who.


Some guys you know right away -- like Joe Pitka, who's directed some of the great Nike commercials. I've never had the pleasure, but I hear he can be a real jerk. A screamer. And probably proud of it. I'll have to ask Nigel sometime, although Nigel is too politic to go around telling stories out of school.


Anyway, this young, scruffy-looking director comes walking up asking for Nigel; and I realize the producer hasn't told him I'm replacing Nigel for the day. Is he a screamer? I'm about to find out.
 

elindholm

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Whew, that was a long post. If I understood it correctly, the final way to decide whether Ainge or Jordan was a better athlete would be to have them bowl against each other. Right?
 

sly fly

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SunCardfan said:
nope :) In todays game TE's are quite fast....

Did you ever see Charles go coast-to-coast?

Players deflected off him. Or, got out of the way.

I'm sure he could of adapted quite nicely. :D
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Rivercard said:
The day they start enforcing traveling is the day I'll get interested in the NBA again. And It bugs me that stars get the kid glove treatment when it comes to fouls. I'll take the college game over the NBA anyday.


i love the nba, even in its current state, but i can't state enough how much the no-travelling call makes me sick. i literally can't help myself during games. i find myself saying out loud, with wild arm gestures, "that's travelling!" over and over again. and some of it is sooooo blatant. the hop step is almost always a travel, as is a spin move, and yet, it's never called. maddening i tell you, maddening!
 
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Skkorpion

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Chaplin, I run out of time. I've been watching as many NBA playoff games as I can. The games, with a few exceptions, have been competitive.

You guys would watch any hoops at all. America isn't watching. And that's the problem.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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sly fly said:
Did you ever see Charles go coast-to-coast?

Players deflected off him. Or, got out of the way.

I'm sure he could of adapted quite nicely. :D


charles is one of the few dudes that i could see making the succesful transition.

the problem w/ comparing the two sports is that different TYPES of athletes excel at each sport. the nba is made for tall, long, leapers. the nfl is made for strong, fast, low-center-of-gravity-types.

i think it's a good indicator though, that top football players (bo jackson and deion sanders) not only played baseball, but ended up excelling in it (to a certain degree). so maybe the strong/fast/lowcenterofgravity athlete translates better to more sports.

ultimately the best athletes are decathletes. i mean, from a purely measurable standpoint they are world-class leapers, speed guys, and strength guys (shot and discus).
 

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Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
i love the nba, even in its current state, but i can't state enough how much the no-travelling call makes me sick. i literally can't help myself during games. i find myself saying out loud, with wild arm gestures, "that's travelling!" over and over again. and some of it is sooooo blatant. the hop step is almost always a travel, as is a spin move, and yet, it's never called. maddening i tell you, maddening!

Agreed, excellent post.

Richard Jefferson shuffled his feet before a dribble drive last night and I could not help but think a rookie would have been called for a travel. I guess once you have a few years in traveling no longer applies. :hulk:

I like watching Kevin Garnett except when he changes his pivot foot twice before he scores.....
 

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Skkorpion said:
Chaplin, I run out of time. I've been watching as many NBA playoff games as I can. The games, with a few exceptions, have been competitive.

You guys would watch any hoops at all. America isn't watching. And that's the problem.

Look at the bright side, at least we're not hockey. :D
 

cardsunsfan

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sly fly said:
Did you ever see Charles go coast-to-coast?

Players deflected off him. Or, got out of the way.

I'm sure he could of adapted quite nicely. :D

TE's in Football can have enough guys tackling them really quickly. TE's are supposed to have an advantage because they are normally too big for a corner and too fast for a linebacker. If you're not fast enough you'll just be gang tackled. Do you honestly think Barkley was faster than most linebackers in the NFL? He always lumbered down the floor even when he was younger. I don't think he was efficent enough to be a top speed guy. As mentioned before James probably runs about a 4.8 speed I would think and I think TE's should be around that speed at the least and preferably 4.6, 4.7. Winslow this year ran a 4.5 before the draft. I don't think Barkley runs close to any of those numbers.
 
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thegrahamcrackr

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I dont watch football unless its on tv, and I only casually watch the draft, however I always got the idea that the times were somewhat over analyzed. At least thats what a lot of random articles that I read said. I just thought they had the potential to over or under value a player. Something like height (Shawn Bradly or TJ Ford) or pure athleticism (Darius Miles) in the NBA.

Just curious.
 

cardsunsfan

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Sometimes they do but I think they have to be in a certain speed range to be a good TE. I don't think Barkley would be in that range.
 

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Tony Gonzalez - a top TE athlete in Football in early days - was a below average athlete in College Basketball. I do like football and Cardinals are my favorite NFL team but Basketball players are better athletes IMO.

Charlie Ward was a good College Football player but is an below average athlete in Basketball. I'm not a diehard Football fan but I couldn't name 1 NFL player that could make NBA League - there could be a decent list of NBAers with NFL talent. That's more of a talent issue but I don't agree NFL players are better athletes. I think it would be closer to 4.5 for a decent athlete in Basketball - Cotton mentioned it once, while discussing NBA players being best athletes (not that I could find game - I have games back to 96-97 season).

A player on my H.S Football team was an All-American WR in H.S and played at ASU and later went to a weaker College and dominated - (I am UoFa fan) but was just another Basketball player, undersized at 6'3-6'4 and I expected him to be a better Basketball athlete.
 

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