The NBA is in real trouble

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Tony Gonzalez - a top TE athlete in Football in early days - was a below average athlete in College Basketball. I do like football and Cardinals are my favorite NFL team but Basketball players are better athletes IMO.

Charlie Ward was a good College Football player but is an below average athlete in Basketball. I'm not a diehard Football fan but I couldn't name 1 NFL player that could make NBA League - there could be a decent list of NBAers with NFL talent. That's more of a talent issue but I don't agree NFL players are better athletes. I think it would be closer to 4.5 for a decent athlete in Basketball - Cotton mentioned it once, while discussing NBA players being best athletes (not that I could find game - I have games back to 96-97 season).

A player on my H.S Football team was an All-American WR in H.S and played at ASU and later went to a weaker College and dominated - (I am UoFa fan) but was just another Basketball player, undersized at 6'3-6'4 and I expected him to be a better Basketball athlete.

i think you're confusing height for athleticism. it wasn't that tony gonzales wasn't a talented football player, it was that he was a 6'5 power forward. if anything, it says a lot that about a player's athleticism that a 6'5 player could man the power forward slot despite giving up at leat 3 - 5 inches.

and comparing a player dominating COLLEGE football to being ordinary in PRO basketball just ain't fair. that's COLLEGE vs. PRO.

 

[PhxGametime]

it wasn't that tony gonzales wasn't a talented football player, it was that he was a 6'5 power forward.

If that means talented basketball player - he wasn't that talented, he was on a bad team that needed anybody to play PF. There are shorter and lighter Power Forwards in College Basketball - I loved his football ability and all but Tony Gonzalez wasn't a Ben Wallace basketball type talent. I'm not criticizing football athletes and football might be the supreme sport today (Cardinals fan here, I don't post much at Cards board but I do read - I don't have a lot of football expertise. Some here might say - I don't have much basketball either ) but I do think NBA have better athletes.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My favorite dumb line in this thread "Kidd or Marbury couldn't take the pounding of playing RB"

Yeah, because Marbury who relentlessly attacks the basket, gets hammered virtually everytime by guys that are nearly a foot taller than him, and DOESN'T wear body armor (pads) couldn't do the same in the NFL.

Please...think before you say something like that.

 

[slinslin]

Yeah and before Lebron was drafted I read some articles that said that if they could some NFL teams would have drafted Lebron James too.

Allen Iverson was highschool basketball player and football player of the year I think.

Jermaine O'Neal was working out with the Colts in the offseason and said he could play WR for them.

And isn't it one of the favorite quotes on the Cardinals board that it really doesn't matter if someone runs a 4.4 or 4.8 as long as he can play?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

NBA Players are largely considered the greatest athletes in the world.

However, that doesn't necessarily translate into other sports.

Nor does it work for NFL players. It's an entirely different animal.

Each league represents those athletes that have honed their bodies to fit a specific ideal, to fill a specific role. This is the focus of their being.

Sure it is within the realms of possibility that players in either league could play for another league...but then those players would have to give everything to their new profession or they simply would not be good enough.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's also funny that Krang posted on this thread, when he never posts on the NBA board.

I never post because I like to read what you guys think. I watched most of the Suns games last year, and I love the NBA. I get goose bumps every time the Suns gametime music begins, that's how much I love the team.

You guys know the game much better than I, and I would rather not try and act like an expert when I'm still learning the ins and outs of the game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And I do think that the NBA has far and away, the best athletes on the planet.

The hand eye coordination of basketball players is phenomenal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My favorite dumb line in this thread "Kidd or Marbury couldn't take the pounding of playing RB"

Yeah, because Marbury who relentlessly attacks the basket, gets hammered virtually everytime by guys that are nearly a foot taller than him, and DOESN'T wear body armor (pads) couldn't do the same in the NFL.

Please...think before you say something like that.

i agree that the quote is a bit silly. we don't know what they can and cannot take, however, i have take umbrage w/ your comment about the battering they do take. yes, they do get hit a lot during games. and yeah, they don't wear pads. however the hits that they take are often glancing, or body to body. those hits in no way, shape, or form come close to having a 260 lbs dude, running a 4.7 directly at you, covered in plastic, hitting you full thrust will all the violence he can muster. i think there was some study done once that showed that a tackle in the nfl was the equivalent to a 20mph car accident.

 

[George O'Brien]

Comparing various kinds of athletes is an interesting, but futile process. For example, it used to be thought that gynastics athletes were the best pure athletes. You want a test of strength, try the rings sometime. Jeesh.

Some people have been able to play professionally in two sports. Only a tiny few like Dion Sanders and Bo Jackson excelled in both baseball and football. Charlie Ward was a star football player before becoming an NBA guard. John Havlicek was drafted by the Cleveland Browns and would have made the team, but decided to play basketball instead.

At the HS and even sometimes at the college level, pure athletic ability is so important that it translates into other sports. Jim Brown at Syracuse not only played football, he was a starter on the basketball team and was an all American in lacrosse.

The reasons I can remember any of these guys is that they are rare. There is no other sport where being able to hit an object coming at you at 95 miles an hour is required like it is in baseball. The sheer violence of a football tackle is unlike anything in any other sport including even rugby. The ability to run at full speed and then stop and throw a ball into a hoop is not like anything else.

At the pro level, the players are almost all specialists who can do the unique things their sport requires. A few might do well in another sport. Most end up like Michael Jordan playing baseball.

 

[Rivercard]

i love the nba, even in its current state, but i can't state enough how much the no-travelling call makes me sick. i literally can't help myself during games. i find myself saying out loud, with wild arm gestures, "that's travelling!" over and over again. and some of it is sooooo blatant. the hop step is almost always a travel, as is a spin move, and yet, it's never called. maddening i tell you, maddening!

I don't understand why they won't call traveling in the NBA. That rule is basically the backbone of the game. Any thoeries on why it's ignored?

 

[elindholm]

Any thoeries on why it's ignored?

Sure, it's the same reason many fouls aren't called. Every time the referees try to enforce the rules, some announcer cries, "Let the players play!"

It's one of the adages of the game -- not that I agree with it -- that somehow the players are better at enforcing the rules than the officials are. I think that it has to do with basketball's current home on the streets. The successful players are the ones that can score even while being fouled, but just as no one's going to try to call a foul in the ghetto, neither is anyone going to call travelling or palming. So you wind up with, in effect, a "dialect" version of basketball, one that's similar to but not quite the same as the game in the rulebook. The officials' challenge is to find a compromise between those two versions of the game, while still allowing the star players to "decide it on the court."

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Any thoeries on why it's ignored?

Sure, it's the same reason many fouls aren't called. Every time the referees try to enforce the rules, some announcer cries, "Let the players play!"

It's one of the adages of the game -- not that I agree with it -- that somehow the players are better at enforcing the rules than the officials are. I think that it has to do with basketball's current home on the streets. The successful players are the ones that can score even while being fouled, but just as no one's going to try to call a foul in the ghetto, neither is anyone going to call travelling or palming. So you wind up with, in effect, a "dialect" version of basketball, one that's similar to but not quite the same as the game in the rulebook. The officials' challenge is to find a compromise between those two versions of the game, while still allowing the star players to "decide it on the court."

i actually think that's an excellent theory. however it is still the blatant travels that just kill me. kill me i'm telling you!

 

[Joe Mama]

Players getting away with traveling is nothing new. In the NBA heyday of the late eighties early nineties Magic Johnson and especially Michael Jordan walked all over the place.

Joe Mama

 

[Rivercard]

Players getting away with traveling is nothing new. In the NBA heyday of the late eighties early nineties Magic Johnson and especially Michael Jordan walked all over the place.

Joe Mama

True. But if they started enforcing the rule consistently, players would have to apapt their game.

 

[Lars the Red]

True. But if they started enforcing the rule consistently, players would have to apapt their game.

A foul is a foul, no matter who commits it. Same with traveling, carrying the ball, double dribble, etc. The problem is, when Stern started to really market just the Superstars, the officiating change to cater to them. Every talks about the great ball handling skills of Iverson, but have you ever watched video of Archibald? or Maravich? or Cousy? These guys did unbelievable things with the rock and didn't need to carry it. If I turn, initiating contact, there by removing my opponent from his position, I am charging. My size has nothing to do with the rules. Wilt could have bowled over almost everyone in the league, as could have Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Zelmo Beaty, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, or any other number of players. Hell, if Stanley Roberts could have just dipped a shoulder and charged to the basket, he could have had a heck of a career.

The game hasn't needed to change. Call the violations as they occur, no matter who commits them and you will see a much better product.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A foul is a foul, no matter who commits it. Same with traveling, carrying the ball, double dribble, etc. The problem is, when Stern started to really market just the Superstars, the officiating change to cater to them. Every talks about the great ball handling skills of Iverson, but have you ever watched video of Archibald? or Maravich? or Cousy? These guys did unbelievable things with the rock and didn't need to carry it. If I turn, initiating contact, there by removing my opponent from his position, I am charging. My size has nothing to do with the rules. Wilt could have bowled over almost everyone in the league, as could have Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Zelmo Beaty, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, or any other number of players. Hell, if Stanley Roberts could have just dipped a shoulder and charged to the basket, he could have had a heck of a career.

The game hasn't needed to change. Call the violations as they occur, no matter who commits them and you will see a much better product.

GOD BLESS AMERICA LARS, I COMPLETELY AGREE!