The Official "2008 Alex Rodriguez Sweepstakes" thread

82CardsGrad

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Define clutch and how one is clutch and when a clutch hit happens and that is it a repeatable skill and that chokers always choke please. Maybe if I give you something productive to do you'd quit banging your head.

My head will stop hurting once I cease this discussion... But...

Clutch can be several different things and come at many different times. With regard to Jeter, (and I again, I don't have the time to look this up), if you review his batting average for his career in regular and post season play, as well as his average with runners in scoring position, and with runners in scoring position with 2 outs, I'm quite certain you would see a Webster's definition of clutch. The compare that to A-Rod's numbers... :shock:
 

DWKB

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My head will stop hurting once I cease this discussion... But...

Clutch can be several different things and come at many different times. With regard to Jeter, (and I again, I don't have the time to look this up), if you review his batting average for his career in regular and post season play, as well as his average with runners in scoring position, and with runners in scoring position with 2 outs, I'm quite certain you would see a Webster's definition of clutch. The compare that to A-Rod's numbers... :shock:

Well I don't have postseason, but regular are easy to get (BTW, you do know that OPS is MUCH better than AVG, right?):

Jetes:
Total: .317/.388/.462/.850
RISP: .311/.406/.435/.841
RISP/2 out: .316/.417/.448/.865
Late and Close: .286/.385/.421/.806

ARod:
Total: .306/.389/.578/.967
RISP: .306/.404/.561/.965
RISP/2 out: .274/.399/.491/.890
Late and Close: .280/.376/.538/.914

I believe Late and Close is defined as 7+ inning of game, up or down by 1 run (maybe 2 runs)
 

TucsonDevil

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Here is my $.02 (I will be expecting my change back)

Jeter is a great player. I hate the Yankees and all things NY, but I really do like Jeter. I do think he is a character guy... along with Posada and Mariano.

A-Rod talent >>>>> to Jeter's talent. And Jeter will be HOF. A-Rod is that good. Do I like the guy? NOPE! But I wouldn't mind him batting 4th in our lineup.

I believe A-Rod yearns to have his statue in Yankee stadium (or plaque, whatever they use in the outfield for Yankee Legends). He can get that by breaking Barry Bonds' record while a Yankee. I think that would vindicate his 'lack' of rings - bringing back the HR record to the NY Yankees. But, if he stays another 5 years the Yankees will find away to get back to the WS and win it.
 

TucsonDevil

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Well I don't have postseason, but regular are easy to get (BTW, you do know that OPS is MUCH better than AVG, right?):

Jetes:
Total: .317/.388/.462/.850
RISP: .311/.406/.435/.841
RISP/2 out: .316/.417/.448/.865
Late and Close: .286/.385/.421/.806

ARod:
Total: .306/.389/.578/.967
RISP: .306/.404/.561/.965
RISP/2 out: .274/.399/.491/.890
Late and Close: .280/.376/.538/.914

I believe Late and Close is defined as 7+ inning of game, up or down by 1 run (maybe 2 runs)

I think you are missing the point. Perception is not equal to reality.

Jeter is seen as more clutch, since his hits and performance under pressure resulted in WS rings. A-Rods haven't.

To make an analogy, let's suppose you were a fan of Dwayne Wade and the Miami Heat. He has delivered a championship to the town. Now, let's say the Heat brought in Lebron James to play alongside Wade. Further, James never gives them another championship - or even into the NBA Finals. Who do you think would be seen as a better player in the eyes of the Heat fans? To the media? Lebron would never been seen as 'clutch' even if he hit buzzer beater after buzzer beater.
 

82CardsGrad

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Well I don't have postseason, but regular are easy to get (BTW, you do know that OPS is MUCH better than AVG, right?):

Jetes:
Total: .317/.388/.462/.850
RISP: .311/.406/.435/.841
RISP/2 out: .316/.417/.448/.865
Late and Close: .286/.385/.421/.806

ARod:
Total: .306/.389/.578/.967
RISP: .306/.404/.561/.965
RISP/2 out: .274/.399/.491/.890
Late and Close: .280/.376/.538/.914

I believe Late and Close is defined as 7+ inning of game, up or down by 1 run (maybe 2 runs)

I really don't care what A-Rod did prior to his NY days... I'm a Yankee fan and for my team, he's done nothing but CHOKE throughout his Yankee career in the post season.
Additionally, based upon the #'s you present above, it seems to me that Jeter still comes out on top... OPS not withstanding. As for OPS, I agree it's a better measurement than average, however it's not a better measurement than average with RISP, and RISP w/ 2 outs... Those are the stats that reflect clutch vs. choke. Again, Jeter has produced at a higher level than A-Rod, and if you take into account only A-Rod's Yankee career, those #'s become grotesque...
 

Dback Jon

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I really don't care what A-Rod did prior to his NY days... I'm a Yankee fan and for my team, he's done nothing but CHOKE throughout his Yankee career in the post season.
Additionally, based upon the #'s you present above, it seems to me that Jeter still comes out on top... OPS not withstanding. As for OPS, I agree it's a better measurement than average, however it's not a better measurement than average with RISP, and RISP w/ 2 outs... Those are the stats that reflect clutch vs. choke. Again, Jeter has produced at a higher level than A-Rod, and if you take into account only A-Rod's Yankee career, those #'s become grotesque...

:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

A-Rod >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jeter
 

DWKB

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I really don't care what A-Rod did prior to his NY days... I'm a Yankee fan and for my team, he's done nothing but CHOKE throughout his Yankee career in the post season.
Additionally, based upon the #'s you present above, it seems to me that Jeter still comes out on top... OPS not withstanding. As for OPS, I agree it's a better measurement than average, however it's not a better measurement than average with RISP, and RISP w/ 2 outs... Those are the stats that reflect clutch vs. choke. Again, Jeter has produced at a higher level than A-Rod, and if you take into account only A-Rod's Yankee career, those #'s become grotesque...

Well....I can't argue against dilusional irrationality and 30 year old understanding of the game (get off my lawn!!) so I'll just leave you to your thoughts. :)
 

Mulli

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Well....I can't argue against dilusional irrationality and 30 year old understanding of the game (get off my lawn!!) so I'll just leave you to your thoughts. :)
In my opinion, neither of you are as far off as the other seems to think.
 

82CardsGrad

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Well....I can't argue against dilusional irrationality and 30 year old understanding of the game (get off my lawn!!) so I'll just leave you to your thoughts. :)

Claiming A-Rod has done nothing but choke in his Yankee post-season career is most certainly not "dilusional"... It's fact.

Hey - whatever team you are fan of - I sincerely hope you end up with the guy! He is a tremendous, freak-of-nature type player. However, he knows nothing of how to lead, inspire, and most importantly - WIN!! He's great at puckering up his lips after every pitch, messing with his gloves, nodding his head after a called strike three, slapping at a first-basemen's glove like a girl, etc...
Please, if there is a god, bring some sanity to the Steinbrenner family for just this one moment, and let A-Rod go!!!
 

Beaver

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I believe A-Rod will leave NY. His time there hasn't been the most pleasant. Its between LAA and CHC. He wouldn't be a good fit in BOS IMO, and I am a BOS fan.
 

overseascardfan

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I believe A-Rod will leave NY. His time there hasn't been the most pleasant. Its between LAA and CHC. He wouldn't be a good fit in BOS IMO, and I am a BOS fan.

2 questions.

Why would the Cubs go after A-Rod when they have Aramis Ramirez whom they just signed last summer?

Where are the Cubs going to get another 30 million a year for A-Rod they almost spend 200 million last summer.

I would say the Mets but unless they trade Delgado & move Wright to 1st there is no spot for him.

It's the Angels or Dodgers all the way, he's a SoCal guy so he would be going home.
 

DWKB

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2 questions.

Why would the Cubs go after A-Rod when they have Aramis Ramirez whom they just signed last summer?

Where are the Cubs going to get another 30 million a year for A-Rod they almost spend 200 million last summer.

I would say the Mets but unless they trade Delgado & move Wright to 1st there is no spot for him.

It's the Angels or Dodgers all the way, he's a SoCal guy so he would be going home.

Alex Rodriguez was the greatest shortstop ever (well, not as good as Wagner) before he was forced to move to 3B for Captin Amazing and his magical Iron Glove.
 

AZCB34

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2 questions.

Why would the Cubs go after A-Rod when they have Aramis Ramirez whom they just signed last summer?

Where are the Cubs going to get another 30 million a year for A-Rod they almost spend 200 million last summer.

I would say the Mets but unless they trade Delgado & move Wright to 1st there is no spot for him.

It's the Angels or Dodgers all the way, he's a SoCal guy so he would be going home.

I doubt the Cubs will go after him but everyone drags the Cubs into the equation only because of the Pinella factor. The Cubs are up for sale so it is unlikely they will load up a check for A-Rod.

My guess in Angels. ARod seems like a tinseltown kind of guy.
 

crisper57

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This is more like a game of hot-potato than a sweepstakes. The team left holding him at the end is the loser.

A-Rod will bankrupt his team and they will have to mortgage the future to pay him. No extra money for pitching or 7 other position players.

Look what he did to the Rangers. That is the fate for all teams outside of NY and Beantown, maybe LA.

I'd love to see him go to the Dodgers. It'll set back their progression for years.
 
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abomb

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Here are the odds from bodog.com;

What team will Alex Rodriguez be playing for on Opening Day '08?
Los Angeles Angels 3/1
Los Angeles Dodgers 4/1
Chicago Cubs 9/2
Detroit Tigers 5/1
Boston Red Sox 6/1
New York Yankees 6/1
New York Mets 9/1
Philadelphia Phillies 9/1
San Francisco Giants 10/1
Field (Any Other Team) 5/2
 

82CardsGrad

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Here are the odds from bodog.com;

What team will Alex Rodriguez be playing for on Opening Day '08?
Los Angeles Angels 3/1
Los Angeles Dodgers 4/1
Chicago Cubs 9/2
Detroit Tigers 5/1
Boston Red Sox 6/1
New York Yankees 6/1
New York Mets 9/1
Philadelphia Phillies 9/1
San Francisco Giants 10/1
Field (Any Other Team) 5/2

Torre and Mattingly were never A-Rod fans. Heck, Joe batted him 8th last year in the playoffs!!! I'd be surprised if they would back a deal that would pay the loser more than $30million a year...
I'd say the Angels, Cubbies and Red Sox are the leading contenders...
 

trueherotillman

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arod may go to the mets, but they're not trading jose reyes.....for anyone straight up. the guy is 23 or 24 and is a speed demon, plays good defense, and sets the table.
 

Homer Simpson

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Might as well ask for it. :)

OT: Did Randy Johnson sign with the dbacks (the first time) the first week of November? It seems he did. Good times.

Good times? That was one of the worst signings ever, at the time! It didn't look good at all until November of 2001.

Consider this: prior to the 2001 NLCS, Randy Johnson was a great regular season player, but could not do anything in the postseason. He won his first two playoff decisions in 1995 -- then proceeded to lose his next seven decisons. Seven! Seven times when the game was on the line and his team needed a win, Johnson came up short. He was not a winner, he was not a leader. And it took him even longer to get his first championship than ARod has been in the league.

The fact is, if Mike Matheny, and not Tony Womack, had singled in the ninth inning of Game 5 of the 2001 NLDS, the Randy Johnson signing would be among the worse in ML history.


(If you cannot tell, I am being sarcastic. Anybody that thinks the Yankees are better off without ARod does not understand the first thing about baseball. If the wall in Fenway Park was six inches higher, and Tony Clark's ninth inning double in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS bounces off the wall instead of over it, Ruben Sierra scores easily from first, the Yankees win, and we are not having these conversations.)

BTW, Mr. World Derek Jeter actually went 3 for 17 this October -- with 3 GIDP, meaning that he essentially produced an out every time he stepped to the plate. Wonderful. And the ultimate team player stayed at shortstop, despite the fact that he is a much worse fielder than ARod, while me-first ARod eschewed his chances of becoming indisputably the best shortstop in ML history by moving over to third.

I don't post much, usually just lurk, but some of these comments are so inane, I just had to say something.
 

Mulli

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Good times? That was one of the worst signings ever, at the time! It didn't look good at all until November of 2001.

Consider this: prior to the 2001 NLCS, Randy Johnson was a great regular season player, but could not do anything in the postseason. He won his first two playoff decisions in 1995 -- then proceeded to lose his next seven decisons. Seven! Seven times when the game was on the line and his team needed a win, Johnson came up short. He was not a winner, he was not a leader. And it took him even longer to get his first championship than ARod has been in the league.

The fact is, if Mike Matheny, and not Tony Womack, had singled in the ninth inning of Game 5 of the 2001 NLDS, the Randy Johnson signing would be among the worse in ML history.


(If you cannot tell, I am being sarcastic. Anybody that thinks the Yankees are better off without ARod does not understand the first thing about baseball. If the wall in Fenway Park was six inches higher, and Tony Clark's ninth inning double in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS bounces off the wall instead of over it, Ruben Sierra scores easily from first, the Yankees win, and we are not having these conversations.)

BTW, Mr. World Derek Jeter actually went 3 for 17 this October -- with 3 GIDP, meaning that he essentially produced an out every time he stepped to the plate. Wonderful. And the ultimate team player stayed at shortstop, despite the fact that he is a much worse fielder than ARod, while me-first ARod eschewed his chances of becoming indisputably the best shortstop in ML history by moving over to third.

I don't post much, usually just lurk, but some of these comments are so inane, I just had to say something.
agree
 

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