The Official "Do Not Draft a QB, Go With McCown" Thread

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
C'mon, somebody argue with me. After all, this is a ridiculous idea.

Nope. Not even me.

 

[SECTION 11]

I'm going to put on my thinking cap and go through some draft scenarios here...

Best Available Athelete: Sean Taylor
Best Available Football Player: Sean Taylor
Best Available Player at Need Position: Sean Taylor

That was pretty easy. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: The Official "Do Not Draft a QB, Go With McCown" Thread

Originally posted by Shane H
genious

It's definitely ironic when someone attempts to call someone a "genius", but then spells it wrong.

 

[BigRedArk]

Somehow and someway the Cards need to build that Defense. I don't know if it is lack of talent, coaching, youth, or what but it doesn't seem like we are gonna win much until this happens. Going w/ Josh and focusing on Defense(need a Center maybe, depth at RB perhaps) is very appealing to me. I too am concerned about Wilson. Maybe new coaching can help??? Josh is still a raw talent to a certain extent but I agree hanging on to the ball too long is fixable. So is his erratic accuracy. Just MHO.

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: The Official "Do Not Draft a QB, Go With McCown" Thread

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It's definitely ironic when someone attempts to call someone a "genius", but then spells it wrong.

Actually, he spelled it right, but he forgot the prefix. The word is "ingenious".

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by Card Trader
Josh McPlummer will be a nice backup in the NFL, give me a franchise QB though if available.

The thing about playing McCown is the value you get for the money. Yes, we could pay an 8 figure signing bonus for Eli or Roth, but we have NO idea of what either are going to produce in the NFL. Either one could be the next Heath Schuler.

McCown, on the other hand, has shown that he can win NFL games, and he comes extremely cheap. That gives us the ability to fill numerous holes on the team, while MAYBE, just maybe, finding a diamond-in-the-rough in McCown.

The bottom line is that we bet 1.3 million (or whatever josh is going to make) that Josh is our QB of the future, and make the team significantly better in other areas, or, bet 10 million on Eli or Roth, while picking up a couple more marginal FAs or draft choices.

Its hard to explain but theres a certain economic logic to starting McCown next year.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Card Trader
Josh McPlummer will be a nice backup in the NFL

Yeah, like that Jake Delhomme guy. Nobody will win with a chump like that.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Crimson Warrior
McCown, on the other hand, has shown that he can win NFL games

Well, he has shown he can win NFL "game" anyway.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Wow!!!
A thread that actually is of some reading interest.


Wow!!! I actually agree with Sect 11.....all the way down the line. Amazing, Simply Amazing.


And Crimson Warrior.....I like your "economic logic". It actually does make sense to me.

Couple that with Sect 11's three QED's and indeed it all makes total cents.

Bring on Sean Taylor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....In the meantime let all the GM's/Coaches blow their smoke until draft day, Cards included, so that no one knows for sure what they are going to do, until they do it.

Unless you have the first pick and really want it, like the Bengals last year, and can TCOB even before draft day, then letting anyone know what you intend to do, is just flat ignorant.

My rule of thumb from now till draft day.........the more rumored something is....the less likely it is to really happen.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Couple that with Sect 11's three QED's and indeed it all makes total cents

 

[Goldfield]

I say if one of the QB's drop to us. We let the timer runout and wait till someone selects the QB. Then we can take either Taylor or Fitz, whoever we want more at a lower draft slot...




I am totally kidding.


I wasnt super hi on McCown before he started those last few games. He did make alot of bonehead plays, but that happens with rookies that havent played hardly at all in live action since being drafted.

I dont know how good he will be. And I am not 100% sure if he was good enough to pass on a QB like the top two in the draft.


But If there is no QB available when we draft, I wont be unhappy because we are in a great spot to endup with a heck of a player be it QB,WR,S, eitherway.


I was very impressed with Josh's arm & speed. I dissagree with those who dont think he is accurate. He made some very nice passes. In a Greens system I think he would be pretty good...

 

[Assface]

If we stick with McCown and he doesn't pan out next year what year is Matt Leinert? He looked awesome this year and already has one championship under his belt. As much as I want Eli Manning to be a Cardinal this isn't our last chance to ever get a top QB if Josh isn't the answer.

 

[Tangodnzr]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Couple that with Sect 11's three QED's and indeed it all makes total cents
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by SECTION 11

It's been a looong time, but as well as I can recollect from my old geometry days isn't QED the Latin "proof" ending for all geometric solutions?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You really want to give the QB jon to the gy whoset the franchise back 10 years by winning the last game and costing us the #1 overall pick.We can't have losers like that QBing this team.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Couple that with Sect 11's three QED's and indeed it all makes total cents
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's been a looong time, but as well as I can recollect from my old geometry days isn't QED the Latin "proof" ending for all geometric solutions?

quod erat demonstrandum

That which was to have been proved.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

From the little bit I saw the final three games, I think with more experience and some solid coaching that McCown can be a decent QB in this league. He seems to have all the physical tools, he just needs to develop confidence and work on his mental make up (i.e. not get so nervous that he passees to Shelton again).

I'm starting to jump on the Sean Taylor bandwagon. I'd like to see us get a stud defender back there in the secondary.

Pass the Kool-Aid, 11.

 

[Card Trader]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Yeah, like that Jake Delhomme guy. Nobody will win with a chump like that.

I must have missed the deer in headlights look Delhomme gave.....and when we have the supporting cast on both sides of the ball that the Panthers have you can make that comparison. Until then, it's as ridiculous as wanting to pass on one of the two QBs if they are available where we pick.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cards need to save the money, keep Josh and go defense.

Look at the problems Plummers huge contract caused. QB's are too expensive now especially when you consider the results attained by "non-franchise" less expensive QB's.

Josh also impressed me in the final series against Carolina when they drove for the FG to tie. Following a 6yd loss on a run by Shipp, converted the 3rd and 10 only to have it called back for holding, and then converted the 3rd and 20 with a 24yd pass completion.

 

[jf-08]

1st round: Taylor
2nd Rnd: Darnell Dockett

 

[daytripper]

One needs to look no further than this years Super Bowl for a solution at QB. Both Brady and Delhomme have come from nowhere to the championchip game. Brady for a second time.
With Greens experience and track record at Minnesota with QBs it would make sense to either take the best available at 3 or trade down for additional picks. I'm hoping its the latter.
GBR

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Crimson Warrior
The thing about playing McCown is the value you get for the money. Yes, we could pay an 8 figure signing bonus for Eli or Roth, but we have NO idea of what either are going to produce in the NFL. Either one could be the next Heath Schuler.

McCown, on the other hand, has shown that he can win NFL games, and he comes extremely cheap. That gives us the ability to fill numerous holes on the team, while MAYBE, just maybe, finding a diamond-in-the-rough in McCown.

The bottom line is that we bet 1.3 million (or whatever josh is going to make) that Josh is our QB of the future, and make the team significantly better in other areas, or, bet 10 million on Eli or Roth, while picking up a couple more marginal FAs or draft choices.

Its hard to explain but theres a certain economic logic to starting McCown next year.

Yeah but if he's really our starting QB, how long do you think he'll be willing to play at that discount? Remember we got 2 cheap years out of Jake before we redid his contract because he was the starter making 2nd round money.

If Josh starts this year, we'll redo his contract next year to extend him and give him starter money, so we get one year of benefit. You really have to ask yourself is Josh good enough to pass on a potential Franchise QB, just to save money at QB on a team that has a lot of cap room?


The other idea seems to be Qb's are too expensive, I'm not sure that's true anymore, anybody taken top 3 is going to get a lot of money, regardless of position. REmember we told Josh point blank we do NOT pay a QB premium(he asked for one before signing), so if we take Taylor at 3 he's going to expect #3 slot money safety or not.

This is what ESPN says Andre Johnson got last year at #3

WR Andre Johnson, Miami (No. 3 overall): Signing bonus: $9,000,000. Base salaries: $1,000,000 (2003); $1,150,000 (2004, plus $5,410,000 option bonus); $1,400,000 (2005); $1,650,000 (2006); $1,900,000 (2007); $2,150,000 (2008); $1,560,000 (2009, voidable). Notes: If option bonus exercised, base salaries are reduced to $395,000 (2004); $555,000 (2005); $805,000 (2006); $1,055,000 (2007); $1,305,000 (2008). There are various escalators for performance, playing time and team performance. Total: seven years, $20,135,500, or six years, for as much as $39,000,000. Cap charge: $2,285,700.

Rogers deal was only slightly better, Palmers 6 year deal if voided with all bonuses is 49 million(Rogers is something like 42 million).

Leftwich took a long time to sign but appears to have been a bargain something like 30 million over the same term, 3 million signing bonus, 7.9 bonus in March of 2004(2 tiered bonus). But the total value of his deal is 9 million less than Andre Johnson's over 6 years.

If you take a QB # 1 he's going to cost more, and I suspect whoever goes #2 will get more than Rogers did, but I have no doubt whoever we draft at #3 if we stay pat, is going to expect more than Andre Johnson's deal above paid him.
So we may be talking a 10 million signing bonus.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Assface
If we stick with McCown and he doesn't pan out next year what year is Matt Leinert? He looked awesome this year and already has one championship under his belt. As much as I want Eli Manning to be a Cardinal this isn't our last chance to ever get a top QB if Josh isn't the answer.

So, if McCown isn't the answer, we'd either have to suck as bad (or worse) than we did last year, or sell the farm to move up and get Leinert, eh?

I don't know why people post this time and again. It makes no logical sense. If you have even an inkling that you might in the next few years want a franchise QB, and you're in a position to draft one, YOU DO IT. You do NOT bank on another being available next year, because chances are, you won't have the opportunity to draft one.

Me? I say we draft Eli or Big Ben if either is there, but we should NOT trade up. IMO, I'm not completely sold on McCown, though I am encouraged by his play in 3 games...yes folks, only 3 games, not even 1/4 of a season. I'm not quite ready to bet the farm on him yet.

So, if we draft a franchise QB, and he turns out good, and McCown does too...oops, we have an embarassment of riches! Whatever would we do? If one or the other busts, we're still set if the other doesn't. If the top pick QB busts, then we took our shot...it would suck, but I feel we have to take that shot. If Ben and Eli are both gone, take Taylor.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by jw7
Well, he did pass the ball to LJ Shelton.

Other than that, the only argument is a servicable QB vs. a potential all-pro. I'm not 100% sold on Josh, but he does bring footspeed and bullett-passes to the table. Plus he actually turns his head and READS defenses.

Well, that sucked - my attempt to argue with you turned into a failure

After watching him all of 2-3 games I am not ready to stake our future on Josh. Eli or Ben. I like both. If one is there take him or forever dream of what might have been.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Stout
So, if McCown isn't the answer, we'd either have to suck as bad (or worse) than we did last year, or sell the farm to move up and get Leinert, eh?

I don't know why people post this time and again. It makes no logical sense. If you have even an inkling that you might in the next few years want a franchise QB, and you're in a position to draft one, YOU DO IT. You do NOT bank on another being available next year, because chances are, you won't have the opportunity to draft one.

Me? I say we draft Eli or Big Ben if either is there, but we should NOT trade up. IMO, I'm not completely sold on McCown, though I am encouraged by his play in 3 games...yes folks, only 3 games, not even 1/4 of a season. I'm not quite ready to bet the farm on him yet.

So, if we draft a franchise QB, and he turns out good, and McCown does too...oops, we have an embarassment of riches! Whatever would we do? If one or the other busts, we're still set if the other doesn't. If the top pick QB busts, then we took our shot...it would suck, but I feel we have to take that shot. If Ben and Eli are both gone, take Taylor.

Exactly!

The best you could hope for next year would be another QB project and start all over again. It will be a crime to pass on Eli or Ben if they are available.

Address as much as you can in FA and take a francise QB. Blake isnt going anywhere this year and I assume he will start come Sept. McCown as backup, rookie (eli/ben) as thrid string. After this year, wave goodbye to Blake and now you have your QB, 1 years experience under his belt, and ready to take the reigns.

Thats of course contingent upon Blake not leading this team deep into the playoffs, thus throwing a wrench in everything.

Its funny how almost unanimously everyone hated McCown, thought he didnt have the tools etc, prior to the 3 game stretch to end the year. How soon we all forget!

Please think rationaly here and understand what a boneheaded move it would be to pass on either of these 2 guys!

 

[SHORTY19991]

I like what I saw from McCown during the last three games. Sure he threw to Shelton, but he also threw to Poole. Who knows what he can do with the proper coaching and some organized play calling. But he needs to work this offseason! Show everyone during camp that he wants to be the leader. That this is his team.