The Official "Do Not Draft a QB, Go With McCown" Thread

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK

Its funny how almost unanimously everyone hated McCown, thought he didnt have the tools etc, prior to the 3 game stretch to end the year. How soon we all forget!

Please think rationaly here and understand what a boneheaded move it would be to pass on either of these 2 guys!

ALMOST unanimously?????


I'm glad you at least included the ALMOST.


I certainly didn't "hate" McCown. Never have. I think the only opinion about McCown that may have been predominant...was a lot of people had no clue one way or the other in what he could or couldn't do, due to his lack of playing time.

The only "haters" were the usual peanut gallery that take that stance with the majority of their posts here on ANY subject.

Considering who the posters are that rag on McCown, I'm not too worried at all, if that's the criteria that will determine his success or failure.


:thumbup:
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
ALMOST unanimously?????


I'm glad you at least included the ALMOST.


I certainly didn't "hate" McCown. Never have. I think the only opinion about McCown that may have been predominant...was a lot of people had no clue one way or the other in what he could or couldn't do, due to his lack of playing time.

The only "haters" were the usual peanut gallery that take that stance with the majority of their posts here on ANY subject.

Considering who the posters are that rag on McCown, I'm not too worried at all, if that's the criteria that will determine his success or failure.


:thumbup:

Myabe Hate is too stong a word. Point is , that most everyone on this board, prior to the final 3 games, didint have a doubt that McCown WAS NOT the QB of the future. He played 3 games with zero pressure on him (no playoff contention, knew he wasnt guiding the team etc) played decent, and now it appears lots of people are ready to pass on Eli or Ben for McCown.

I am sorry, but 3 decent NFL games does not make a QB, and I am just not ready to hand over the future reigns to this guy. I suspect Green isnt either!
 

AZCB34

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Being one of the boards strongest McCown supporters over the last couple years I like this idea alot. There are alot of positives for him.

He showed growth from preseason his rookie year to preseason last year. Then he showed further growth from preseason to his first start. Over those last 3 games of last year, McCown grew in each of those games. That is very very encouraging.

For those who suggest he is nothing better than a backup, I say your are wrong. In fact, given the right circumstances, he can lead this team to the promised land ala Jake Delhomme. Take a look at Delhomme's stats from his first 2 starts of his career back in 2000 compared to McCown's 3 starts last year:

Jake 42-76 55% 521 yards 3 TDs and 5 INTs 62.4 rating
Josh 59-98 60% 670 yards 3 TDs and 2 INTs (cannot find his rating for his starts for some reason)

To those who talk about the "deer in the headlights look" I would only ask for you to get out there and see what he sees. That look will go away with further starts and more experience. In fact, it is my observation that from start 1 to start threee, that look was going away rather quickly.

To those who complain about accuracy, I point to one throw...the GW TD throw against MIN. That is not a throw an inaccurate QB makes...EVER. He has accuracy and his accuracy will continue to improve as his field vision and experiences improves.

He is mobile and has a very strong arm. He seems to me to be a QB much in the mold that Green is familiar with...Culpepper. I see that as a huge positive for Green to be able to work his offense with a QB style/ability he is comfortable with.

Which brtings me to the #3 overall pick. Operating under the assumption the Cards will not trade down, I like the idea of Taylor. Everything I have read and the few times I have seen him play, I have been impressed. Alongside Jackson, the Cards could have one of the best safety tandems this side of Philly.

But what of Adrian Wilson?

He is a RFA right now. I think his athletic ability will garner him a tender offer from the Cards...and rightfully so. His problems are many faceted. In no particular order, I think he fell short due to coaching. With better coaching (this could get dicey with Solomon's reputation) he can be a better player. Two, I think he felt as though his athletic ability would allow him to succeed...in college that is the case but here in the NFL it takes more than athletic ability. Three, I question his preparation simply because the blown plays simply could not have been all coaching.

So does he still fit in with the Cards even if they draft Taylor? Yup.

I believe Adrian Wilson could be an excellent special teams player...which is always in big demand. More and more, special teams is deciding games. Additionally, I could see him as a 3rd and long specialist type player...kind of in the Adam Archuleta mold. He could play LB alongside Ray Thompson in a 4-2-5 alignment on passing downs. He has the ability to cover (TE's maybe?)and the ability to rush the passer as well.

Before the argument about his size comes into play, check this out:

Adam Archuleta 6-0 215
Adrian Wilson 6-3 207
Ray Thompson 6-2 217

So as measuerd with these guys, his size shouldn't be an issue.

This would challenge Wilson and his athletic ability...could turn him into a stud player if he takes it seriously. I almost see him how the Packers used LeRoy Butler some years ago. He is a devastating hitter and he wouldn;t be a liability if the opposition ran the ball since I think he is a pretty decent tackler and run stopper.

This would give Clancy alot of flexibility in his alignments...assuming the first time NFL DC can work with the flexibility. Wilson could be used as rusher...hell he could put his hand on the ground sometimes just to give another look...he could cover from the LB position, he could be used as a spy type player (we do play Vick this upcoming season).

Sorry for the length of the post...just rambling
 

100%CardsFan

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THIS ONE IS FOR YOU KOC. TIM WE DID IT.
After reading this thread I was thinking about McCown as our QB then I read that article about Big Ben and I think to myself how could we let someone like that go. I really dont know now. Thanks Sec 11, Thanks a lot.
 

AzCards21

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For some unsubstantiated reason I just see Eli as having more bust potential than anyone else in the draft. Especially if the burden is put on him to save a struggling franchise. The pressure to perform to not only his fathers past legacy coupled but with a brother currently active in the NFL will be unreal. I think the expectations put on him will be so high he may get overwhelmed. He is already coming up a little short in Peytons long shadow. From what I've read he has performed worse than Peyton at every level, highschool and college so far. Will the pros be any kinder? I doubt it. At this point I really hope he is not even an option when we pick.
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by AzCards21
For some unsubstantiated reason I just see Eli as having more bust potential than anyone else in the draft. Especially if the burden is put on him to save a struggling franchise. The pressure to perform to not only his fathers past legacy coupled but with a brother currently active in the NFL will be unreal. I think the expectations put on him will be so high he may get overwhelmed. He is already coming up a little short in Peytons long shadow. From what I've read he has performed worse than Peyton at every level, highschool and college so far. Will the pros be any kinder? I doubt it. At this point I really hope he is not even an option when we pick.

I don't see any way Eli is a bust, but I think the ceiling is definitely higher on Ben than it is on Eli, he's simply bigger, has a better arm, and frankly I think he moves better than Eli too.

Eli is MUCH more experienced, a born QB vs a guy who played TE in HS, but given Green's reputation with QB's I personally would be very tempted to take Ben first overall if we had that pick.

If Ben is there, we should take him.
 

Assface

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Originally posted by AZCB34
Before the argument about his size comes into play, check this out:

Adam Archuleta 6-0 215
Adrian Wilson 6-3 207
Ray Thompson 6-2 217

Adrian is now in the 220-225 range. He's actually bigger than the guy many believe has been our best LB the last 2 years.
 

justAndy

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...

take ben or eli if they're there at #3 - do NOT trade away the whole draft for an UNSURE thing with these college QB's.
Trading down for more picks? - MAYBE w/ DenGreen at the helm i could go for that....
Pick best guy at #3? - sure!
Drafting a killer wideout to work with Quan and Josh doesn't sound too bad...
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
In his first season, extrapolated over 16 games:
314 for 533 passing (59%), 3571 yards, 16 td, 11 int.
91 rushes for 602 yards, 5 td.

By the way, these numbers would absolutely thump on anything from #1 pick David Carr in either his first or second season.
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

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Re: Re: The Official "Do Not Draft a QB, Go With McCown" Thread

Originally posted by SECTION 11
By the way, these numbers would absolutely thump on anything from #1 pick David Carr in either his first or second season.

His completion percentage is not only higher, but his yards per completion are almost double at 11.4.
 
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AzCards21

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Originally posted by Russ Smith
I don't see any way Eli is a bust, but I think the ceiling is definitely higher on Ben than it is on Eli, he's simply bigger, has a better arm, and frankly I think he moves better than Eli too.

Eli is MUCH more experienced, a born QB vs a guy who played TE in HS, but given Green's reputation with QB's I personally would be very tempted to take Ben first overall if we had that pick.

If Ben is there, we should take him.

I agree maybe bust is a strong word. Unfulfilled potential may be better. I am still leery of him because of his name equally as much as others are enamoured for the same name. The name is in no way a gaurantee. Eli Aikman, Eli Stauback, Eli Elway, Eli Young, Eli Montana. You get the idea.

But each of them would have just sucked several million out of your team with absolutely no proof of performance other than name. I think Manning is getting the benefit of the doubt instead of the strict criticism of a nobody. Just my .02.

He could easily prove up and make his claim to the QB throne or turn out to be Paris Hilton in shoulder pads. I just hope the Cards personell are looking strictly at his individual performance and not his families.
 

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I want to see Josh McCown after taking all the reps in mini-camps and training camp as the #1 QB. That, combined wityh what I feel is a true coaching staff, leads me to think he can be a very special NFL QB.
I, willing to take that chance in this year and draft another need position!

Go Cards/ America!
Tim
 
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SECTION 11

SECTION 11

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
C'mon, somebody argue with me. After all, this is a ridiculous idea.


muahahahahaaaa.....

"With the #11 selection of the 2004 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select, RB Steven Jackson.
With the #33 selection... Will Poole.
With the #44 selection... Dunta Robinson."
 

BACH

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Originally posted by SECTION 11
muahahahahaaaa.....

"With the #11 selection of the 2004 NFL Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select, RB Steven Jackson.
With the #33 selection... Will Poole.
With the #44 selection... Dunta Robinson."

Can't argue. I'm with you on this one.

I don't think I would draft the way though, but it all depends on on the free agent signing.
 

Cardiac

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Originally posted by AZCB34
Being one of the boards strongest McCown supporters over the last couple years I like this idea alot. There are alot of positives for him.

He showed growth from preseason his rookie year to preseason last year. Then he showed further growth from preseason to his first start. Over those last 3 games of last year, McCown grew in each of those games. That is very very encouraging.

For those who suggest he is nothing better than a backup, I say your are wrong. In fact, given the right circumstances, he can lead this team to the promised land ala Jake Delhomme. Take a look at Delhomme's stats from his first 2 starts of his career back in 2000 compared to McCown's 3 starts last year:

Jake 42-76 55% 521 yards 3 TDs and 5 INTs 62.4 rating
Josh 59-98 60% 670 yards 3 TDs and 2 INTs (cannot find his rating for his starts for some reason)

To those who talk about the "deer in the headlights look" I would only ask for you to get out there and see what he sees. That look will go away with further starts and more experience. In fact, it is my observation that from start 1 to start threee, that look was going away rather quickly.

To those who complain about accuracy, I point to one throw...the GW TD throw against MIN. That is not a throw an inaccurate QB makes...EVER. He has accuracy and his accuracy will continue to improve as his field vision and experiences improves.

He is mobile and has a very strong arm. He seems to me to be a QB much in the mold that Green is familiar with...Culpepper. I see that as a huge positive for Green to be able to work his offense with a QB style/ability he is comfortable with.

Which brtings me to the #3 overall pick. Operating under the assumption the Cards will not trade down, I like the idea of Taylor. Everything I have read and the few times I have seen him play, I have been impressed. Alongside Jackson, the Cards could have one of the best safety tandems this side of Philly.

But what of Adrian Wilson?

He is a RFA right now. I think his athletic ability will garner him a tender offer from the Cards...and rightfully so. His problems are many faceted. In no particular order, I think he fell short due to coaching. With better coaching (this could get dicey with Solomon's reputation) he can be a better player. Two, I think he felt as though his athletic ability would allow him to succeed...in college that is the case but here in the NFL it takes more than athletic ability. Three, I question his preparation simply because the blown plays simply could not have been all coaching.

So does he still fit in with the Cards even if they draft Taylor? Yup.

I believe Adrian Wilson could be an excellent special teams player...which is always in big demand. More and more, special teams is deciding games. Additionally, I could see him as a 3rd and long specialist type player...kind of in the Adam Archuleta mold. He could play LB alongside Ray Thompson in a 4-2-5 alignment on passing downs. He has the ability to cover (TE's maybe?)and the ability to rush the passer as well.

Before the argument about his size comes into play, check this out:

Adam Archuleta 6-0 215
Adrian Wilson 6-3 207
Ray Thompson 6-2 217

So as measuerd with these guys, his size shouldn't be an issue.

This would challenge Wilson and his athletic ability...could turn him into a stud player if he takes it seriously. I almost see him how the Packers used LeRoy Butler some years ago. He is a devastating hitter and he wouldn;t be a liability if the opposition ran the ball since I think he is a pretty decent tackler and run stopper.

This would give Clancy alot of flexibility in his alignments...assuming the first time NFL DC can work with the flexibility. Wilson could be used as rusher...hell he could put his hand on the ground sometimes just to give another look...he could cover from the LB position, he could be used as a spy type player (we do play Vick this upcoming season).

Sorry for the length of the post...just rambling


Keep rambling on ...... That was an outstanding post.



:thumbup:
 

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Rivercard said:
I agree that down the stretch McCown was a pleasant surprise when compared to his earlier performances, I'm just not sold on passing up a potential franchise guy for a guy who showed promise in 3 relatively meaningless games. Remember, this board was pretty much totally anti-McCown until about a month ago.

rivercard,

There has actually been some very staunch support of McCown from many quarters for months now. McCown performance in mini camps has shown the rapid development he has made since Green annointed him as the starter.......even skkorp who has been an advocate of drafting a QB (Rivers, I might add) early agrees that his progress has been short of amazing.

Your comment......."I'm not sold on passing on a potential franchise QB" says it all.........all Manning; Roesthlisberger have is "potential".......and I beleive that McCown has as much as they do.
 

spanky1

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Tangodnzr said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Couple that with Sect 11's three QED's and indeed it all makes total cents
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's been a looong time, but as well as I can recollect from my old geometry days isn't QED the Latin "proof" ending for all geometric solutions? :D

QED= quad erat demonstratus= that which was, has now been proven.
 

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