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SECTION 11
vibraslap
Do we have our very own April Fools thread here??
The Official "Don't Waste the #6 Pick on Terrell Suggs" Thread
- Thread starter SECTION 11
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Yep
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vibraslap
(rubs hands together)
muahahahaha......
hef
Veteran
ed
I agree,why crucify suggs for 1 bad workout.
I agree,why crucify suggs for 1 bad workout.
Redstorm and I are of the same view here
This is almost exactly my opinion.
The only reason Suggs might drop to six is because of his workout. Without these questions, he wouldn't be anywhere near the Cardinals pick. If he had worked out to expectations, he could have even been the #1 pick.
I don't think he falls past Chicago, but should he...then he becomes the kind of gamble the Cardinals have to take.
I personally don't believe the Cardinals are going to make the playoffs this season, which is why I say that if they have ANY doubts about McCown, here is your chance to get that true franchise guy.
This is almost exactly my opinion.
The only reason Suggs might drop to six is because of his workout. Without these questions, he wouldn't be anywhere near the Cardinals pick. If he had worked out to expectations, he could have even been the #1 pick.
I don't think he falls past Chicago, but should he...then he becomes the kind of gamble the Cardinals have to take.
I personally don't believe the Cardinals are going to make the playoffs this season, which is why I say that if they have ANY doubts about McCown, here is your chance to get that true franchise guy.
BACH
Superbowl, Homeboy!
Would everyone PLEASE forget about the workout for a second!!! Suggs came in as the #3 defensive player(after Kennedy and Newman). Everyone expected him to have a great workout that would position him as the #1 defensive player and perhaps the best player in the draft. Well, he didn't have as good a work-out as everyone expected, so he didn't jump the board to the #1 spot. He's still rated as #5 or #6 in the entire draft, so would not take him?? DE is by far our biggest need, so why pass on him???
I really do not know if this guy is as good as the hype or not but I do worry about the "home town" hero aspect of this. We just went through 6 years of home town hero Jake. I hope where he played is not a factor when we draft. If he is good I do not care where he is from.
Assuming Suggs is going to be a good pass rusher, I would love for him to play for the Cardinals. However,IMO, the draft is a crap shoot, and no one knows who is going to be a great player.
I too was a little disappointed by Sugg's workout numbers. To me, while 40 times, and number of reps are not a fool-proof indication of how good a player will be, they are at least an indication of their raw speed and power. Their speed in the first 10 yards? No. Their game speed? No. But, players like Simeon ran some awesome 40 times. Those times seem to have reflected the kind of speed the guy has. Players that can move alot of weight are often pretty strong on the field as well. Larry Allen and Bob Young (back in the day) come to mind.
Having said this, we all know there is more to athletics than simply workout speed and strength (Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice are very good examples). Within a great athlete, there is often the instictive ability to use his leverage, balance, timing, and other attributes to make plays. Suggs may have these qualities.
Like another poster, I only hope the Cards don't draft him simply because he is a local boy. If they really think he is a player, and he is there, go for it.
Personally, I would like to see the Cards try to trade out of the 6 spot. Try to get Boller later in the first round, and address their weaknesses at receiver and d-line throughout the rest of the draft and the balance of free agency (including post June 1st).
I too was a little disappointed by Sugg's workout numbers. To me, while 40 times, and number of reps are not a fool-proof indication of how good a player will be, they are at least an indication of their raw speed and power. Their speed in the first 10 yards? No. Their game speed? No. But, players like Simeon ran some awesome 40 times. Those times seem to have reflected the kind of speed the guy has. Players that can move alot of weight are often pretty strong on the field as well. Larry Allen and Bob Young (back in the day) come to mind.
Having said this, we all know there is more to athletics than simply workout speed and strength (Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice are very good examples). Within a great athlete, there is often the instictive ability to use his leverage, balance, timing, and other attributes to make plays. Suggs may have these qualities.
Like another poster, I only hope the Cards don't draft him simply because he is a local boy. If they really think he is a player, and he is there, go for it.
Personally, I would like to see the Cards try to trade out of the 6 spot. Try to get Boller later in the first round, and address their weaknesses at receiver and d-line throughout the rest of the draft and the balance of free agency (including post June 1st).
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A situational pass rusher is just not worth #6 money. I would want more from a top ten pick than a one out of every 4 down player. If the defense can't stop the run on first and second down then Suggs doesn't even step onto the field because now its 3rd and short.
All the Suggs supporters are assuming that the defense puts the other team in a lot of 3rd and long situations. If that doesn't happen then what value does Suggs bring to the table?
I still like Haynes (16 sacks) and I know others will say PSU bias however I also think Kennedy and L. Johnson will be two of the biggest busts in the draft.
All the Suggs supporters are assuming that the defense puts the other team in a lot of 3rd and long situations. If that doesn't happen then what value does Suggs bring to the table?
I still like Haynes (16 sacks) and I know others will say PSU bias however I also think Kennedy and L. Johnson will be two of the biggest busts in the draft.
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vibraslap
You're right. You heard very little from me about Suggs, apart from a potential Derrick Thomas comparison, which turned out to be far fetched.
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vibraslap
Ironclad facts? C'mon Ed....
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vibraslap
I'm having a hard time getting past this one.
Accussing me of not watching college football is tantamount to me accusing you of plagiarizing draft reports.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I'm no proctologist, but there seems to be a whole lot of butt-hurt floating around this thread.
I warned you that I didn't want to post this again, but there have been repeat offenses here...
Pay attention, people! We have our QB of the future, and, like it or not, his name is Josh McCown. They said it when we drafted him as the 3rd QB off the board last year, and they said it the day that we signed Blake.
I give you my Kerouac 9's LOCK OF THE DRAFT: We will not draft a QB in the first four rounds. You can take that to the bank. Maybe next year, if McCown looks like the next Gio Carmazzi, but not this year.
I warned you that I didn't want to post this again, but there have been repeat offenses here...
Pay attention, people! We have our QB of the future, and, like it or not, his name is Josh McCown. They said it when we drafted him as the 3rd QB off the board last year, and they said it the day that we signed Blake.
I give you my Kerouac 9's LOCK OF THE DRAFT: We will not draft a QB in the first four rounds. You can take that to the bank. Maybe next year, if McCown looks like the next Gio Carmazzi, but not this year.
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SECTION 11
vibraslap
I'm no aspiring NFL scout, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
I just don't see the need for half-baked, minor league smack when all I did was suggest that Suggs may not be worth the sixth pick.
Never said he sucked, never said Leftwich should be the guy (at least not this month), etc, etc...
Kerouac, was I not in fact ON Rien Long's bandwagon a few months ago?
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
You need to continue to post it until people begin to realize that this is what (at least publicly) the Cardinals have stated. Defense needs the most attention in the draft, it has the most holes to fill, and makes the most sense. Whether or not that 1st round pick is Suggs, Newman, Trufant, or Kennedy makes no difference. They would all make an immediate impact (in my opinion).
Cardinals.Ken
That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
As much as I would enjoy having Long here, I don't know if his skillset as a DT would warrant a #6 overall pick. If we were to trade down (no stips, just a what if) and he were available I would say draft him.
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
A situational pass rusher is just not worth #6 money.
Rules are made to be broken.
Every team and every situation is different.
The Cardinals - right now - would go into next season with McAddley as our #1 receiver, Barrett as our "other" CB and either Dennis Johnson or VDB as our pass rushing specialist.
A case could be made that we could get by with McAddley and Barrett. Our most glaring weakness remains the lack of a pass rush.
It then becomes a matter of supply and demand.
A. We need a really good pass rushing specialist (situational or everyday) badly.
B. There aren't too many of these in free agency or in the draft.
C. Ergo - Need is high/supply is low. It makes sense to pay big bucks for a situational pass rusher, and Suggs is an attractive option.
Finally - for all you stat-boys out there. Suggs isn't qualifying for the US Olympics, he's a football player. Rip up Suggs' workout results and go watch some tape. He can play. He can help us a lot.
Combine and Pro Day times are meant to to support or clarify what the scouts already think about a prospect's ability to play football. The times aren't meant to be used in isolation to predict whether or not the kid can play.
Rules are made to be broken.
Every team and every situation is different.
The Cardinals - right now - would go into next season with McAddley as our #1 receiver, Barrett as our "other" CB and either Dennis Johnson or VDB as our pass rushing specialist.
A case could be made that we could get by with McAddley and Barrett. Our most glaring weakness remains the lack of a pass rush.
It then becomes a matter of supply and demand.
A. We need a really good pass rushing specialist (situational or everyday) badly.
B. There aren't too many of these in free agency or in the draft.
C. Ergo - Need is high/supply is low. It makes sense to pay big bucks for a situational pass rusher, and Suggs is an attractive option.
Finally - for all you stat-boys out there. Suggs isn't qualifying for the US Olympics, he's a football player. Rip up Suggs' workout results and go watch some tape. He can play. He can help us a lot.
Combine and Pro Day times are meant to to support or clarify what the scouts already think about a prospect's ability to play football. The times aren't meant to be used in isolation to predict whether or not the kid can play.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Dude, I'm staying out of this one. I'm just here to regulate on people saying we should draft Leftwich or, now apparently, Boller (who is in my book as being the prime candidate for First Round Bust of the 2003 Draft. He came out of nowhere from being a late 2nd Round QB to possibly being in the Top 15). It would be so "old Cardinals" to trade down and take Boller.
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vibraslap
I wouldn't take him at #6 either, but do I think he's a first round guy? Sure.
I also think he should have gone back for his senior year given the DT class he's competing with. He already said once he was without a doubt going back for his senior year because of Wazzu's new coach (Pardo, or something like that).
Is he regretting his decision? I dunno...
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SECTION 11
vibraslap
I know he's a player. Everyone knows he's a player.
But is it too much to ask that the #6 pick doesn't have any holes in his boat?
I get a little concerned when the defense to his workout consists of Jerry Rice references or the number of moves he had that worked in college.
If it's pure pass rushing skill we're after, then I agree with Ed and we should look at Peek in rd. 2. Is #37 too high for Peek? I dunno.
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No, I hate kids.
I think there's a difference between the opinion of someone (not me, just anyone) who has watched a guy play a whole bunch and someone who hasn't seen anything but workout numbers. Any logical person would agree.
You must be really insecure to have to pick on me for trying to back up what I was saying. My point is that anyone who is making assertions about a player based on seeing them play once and reading their workout numbers off the internet doesn't know what the hell they are talking about, period. I never claimed I was a damn expert but I, or anyone else who has seen Suggs play a dozen or more times over the last 2 years, can form a more valid opinion about him than someone who's never seen him or only seen him once.
If you're not smart enough to understand how someone just seeing his workout numbers and saying he blows is not a well-supported opinion, then there's no point in arguing. Pardon me for not thinking people know what they're talking about when all they say is "Look at this workout, he sucks" when it's clear they've never even seen the guy play.
If you want to start watching as much tape and game as I do and spending as much time writing draft stuff so you all can rip it a part and call me an cornholio for trying to state that I've seen these guys play a bunch and JUST MIGHT have a worthwhile opinion on them (especially compared to someone who's never seen them play), then be my guest. And in ten years, when i'm doing this for a living (god willing), I'm sure you'd still find some way to disregard everything I say.
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JasonKGME
I'm a uncle's monkey??
Once again I ask the question, why does everyone keep calling Suggs a "situational pass rusher"? I remember watching several games last year of ASU, and repeatedly seeing and hearing the announcers talk about how the other team would RUN the ball to the opposite side of the field from Suggs because he was such a force that if they ran to his side there were good odds the RB would be tackled for a loss.
Why does everyone seem to think that he will only be used in 3rd and long situations?
Why does everyone seem to think that he will only be used in 3rd and long situations?
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