The OFFICIAL "What did Graves say" thread for out-of-staters

[brews]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
"Graves states "it won't break our season" if the two first rounders are not in camp tomorrow. "

C'mon guys, why is everyone getting so worked up about a comment like this?

Because he insinuated (nearly promised) earlier on that things would be different this year. Now he has all but admitted that they will once again be going into training camp without their #1 draft picks signed.

Remember the "judge this team by who we go to camp with" comment? Except for a bunch of 3rd round and later draft choices, it doesn't look that much different than when he made that comment.

 

[JeffGollin]

Dumb Hayes Story

Can't believe JeffG of all people took the bait on that one.
That's why I watered down my post by deleting the reference to "that clown who posted it on the other thread." Because I would have felt badly if it had turned out to be true.

There's plenty of room for yuks concerning actual events that occur (e.g. Cards pass on Suggs & Trade down. Cards Fail to Sign Top 3 Picks on Eve of Camp - plenty of room for gallows humor there!)

But pardon me if I don't laugh hysterically when someone posts something bogus as though it were "fact." I equate that with giving someone an extra "enthusiastic" noogie on their shoulder and then saying: "Just kidding!"

Sorry AZ, It must be a senior thing - I guess the older I get, the less things I find funny.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Exactly.

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Posturing = Holdout

Agreed! What posturing could the Cardinals do?

Example:
____________________________________________________
Well we have done nothing in 50 years, if you take of little bit off that dollar amount we might let you play for us!

OH WHOOP T DO MR.Graves!
___________________________________________________
Our team is ridiculed by media, and by the NFL. We have no ability to posture. We should be begging them to sign with our team, and put a clause in that we promise not to screw everything up while the player is here.

The Cardinals have been SO BAD lately that it would make sense if I were a draft to rookie to look for more $ to play here.

I thing this is B.S. I think there is a lot of manipulation, and bending of truths going on. I will not be surprise to see none of our dratees in camp.

MUTANY!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Posturing = Holdout

There is a disturbance in the force. Come . . . Come to THE DARKSIDE! It's your destiny!(insert John Williams score here)

 

[AZCB34]

Re: Dumb Hayes Story

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Can't believe JeffG of all people took the bait on that one.
That's why I watered down my post by deleting the reference to "that clown who posted it on the other thread." Because I would have felt badly if it had turned out to be true.

There's plenty of room for yuks concerning actual events that occur (e.g. Cards pass on Suggs & Trade down. Cards Fail to Sign Top 3 Picks on Eve of Camp - plenty of room for gallows humor there!)

But pardon me if I don't laugh hysterically when someone posts something bogus as though it were "fact." I equate that with giving someone an extra "enthusiastic" noogie on their shoulder and then saying: "Just kidding!"

Sorry AZ, It must be a senior thing - I guess the older I get, the less things I find funny.

I was replying to your fiesty nature by being somewhat fiesty myself.

Sorry about that. It's all good.

 

[so far away]

Re: Exactly.

Originally posted by RugbyMuffin


MUTANY!

People have been hung for less.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Posturing = Holdout

Not necessarily.

Sometimes it certainly can, but it's no given by any means.
And not in this case.
I've stated my reasons earlier on another thread. I don't see any indications of any thing any where near negotiations with these guys agents being of an adversarial nature.

I will not be surprised to see both Johnson and Pace fully participating in camp. But still.....some effective negotiating has to occur.

So... posturing is just an effective part of negotiating, which may or may not be adversarial....depending on the parties involved.
And thus....posturing does not automatically equal Holdout.

I'm surprised at you Sect 11. Over generalized simplification is not what I would have normally expected.

Have you been slumming over at the Republic board too much?
Remember the old Persian saying: "If you sleep with a horse too much, you end up smelling like him."

 

[kerouac9]

Fellas, settle down! I know you had your hopes up for the annoucement of three signings. You'll be ecstatic and take all of this back if Boldin gets signed today.

Don't start getting too stressed until August 1. I'm telling you, that's the real drop-dead date they're shooting for. As long as we're done before Boller, things will be fine. I guarantee you that Philly's hoping we low-ball Johnson before they sign McDougle. We should sign them both before Aug. 1, then batten down the mizzenmasts and string Graves up by the yardarm.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Fellas, settle down! I know you had your hopes up for the annoucement of three signings. You'll be ecstatic and take all of this back if Boldin gets signed today.

Don't start getting too stressed until August 1. I'm telling you, that's the real drop-dead date they're shooting for. As long as we're done before Boller, things will be fine. I guarantee you that Philly's hoping we low-ball Johnson before they sign McDougle. We should sign them both before Aug. 1, then batten down the mizzenmasts and string Graves up by the yardarm.

But Aug 1 represents a week worth of doubles plus all the associated classroom and meeting stuff. These are things that can never ever be regained. This is critical time for the entire team, but especially for rookies learning the NFL ropes.

Not saying I disagree with you per se but man how much does that hurt the team in the long run? I say too much for a team that went 5-11 last year.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Not saying I disagree with you per se but man how much does that hurt the team in the long run? I say too much for a team that went 5-11 last year.

No, it hurts the team for the short run, especially in the press. Pace and Johnson are going to sign 4-6 year deals. Do you really think that next season, people are going to be saying, "Well, he's still a week behind thanks to that holdout in 'aught three"? No.

Frankly, they're both probably going to be on the bench for the first week or three of the season, coming in in 3 WR formations and kickoffs. They're not missing that much. Seriously. They have to worry about working out in town while thier agents do their business, so that they can come to work in shape. Are they going to be behind when they show up? Definately. But their retardation (in the literal meaning of the word) decreases every day they're with the team.

Frankly, I'd be more worried about the fact that Mac didn't say that the team we have today was better than the team we had last year (http://www.azcardinals.com/press/pressdetails.php?sid=1291). That's what's disconcerting to me, and I'm not naysaying.

EDIT: By the way, did I mention that I was being frank?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I am not attacking you kerouac9 I am attacking the Cardinals.

1. You'll be ecstatic and take all of this back if Boldin gets signed today.

That is a huge IF! Nothing but lies from Graves so far!

2. Don't start getting too stressed until August 1. I'm telling you, that's the real drop-dead date they're shooting for.

THEN GRAVES SHOULD SAY WE WILL HAVE EVERYONE SIGNED BY AUG 1st not before camp. That is slimy manipulation of the public.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
No, it hurts the team for the short run, especially in the press. Pace and Johnson are going to sign 4-6 year deals. Do you really think that next season, people are going to be saying, "Well, he's still a week behind thanks to that holdout in 'aught three"? No.

Frankly, they're both probably going to be on the bench for the first week or three of the season, coming in in 3 WR formations and kickoffs. They're not missing that much. Seriously. They have to worry about working out in town while thier agents do their business, so that they can come to work in shape. Are they going to be behind when they show up? Definately. But their retardation (in the literal meaning of the word) decreases every day they're with the team.

Frankly, I'd be more worried about the fact that Mac didn't say that the team we have today was better than the team we had last year (http://www.azcardinals.com/press/pressdetails.php?sid=1291). That's what's disconcerting to me, and I'm not naysaying.

EDIT: By the way, did I mention that I was being frank?

Good points and I largely agree. The only issue I would have, and maybe my expectations are too high, but I felt like Johnson and Pace would be very intregal to their units starting day 1. Maybe not every down right away but certainly being asked to be high producers right away and in a couple weeks they might be pressing for starter positions.

The missed week (assuming it is only a week) in the 4-6 year time period will be meaningless. But this year, when improvement must be had...and Mac/the coaching staff's jobs likely hang in the balance...I think the missed time may end up being costly.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by RugbyMuffin
Nothing but lies from Graves so far!

I'm as tense as anybody but RG has not lied to my knowledge, he just keeps saying he is trying to get it done.

Take a valium or a stiff drink an relax a little. I know I need to

 

[brews]

Of the rookies that didn't sign on day 1 of camp, how many were signed within a week? My recollection is that they are usually signed a week or so before the first regular season game.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the only holdouts into the season were Wendell Bryant and Bryant McKinnie. Maybe Chris Simms (KC) and Quentin Jammer (SD) as well, but I think those were the big ones.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I think the only holdouts into the season were Wendell Bryant and Bryant McKinnie. Maybe Chris Simms (KC) and Quentin Jammer (SD) as well, but I think those were the big ones.

You mean Ryan Simms?

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by brews
Of the rookies that didn't sign on day 1 of camp, how many were signed within a week? My recollection is that they are usually signed a week or so before the first regular season game.

Davis was signed in about a week, maybe week and a half. Boston also signed about one week in. The rest that I remember either signed real late (Hearst, Rice, Wads, Bryant, Shelton) or on time (Knight and Jones).

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
You mean Ryan Simms?

Yeah, I always get them confused... That's why I put "KC" in parantheses. Chris Simms just signed with Tampa.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by RugbyMuffin

Nothing but lies from Graves so far!

What?!?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Guys - you really all need to relax. I can't believe most of you made yourself believe today was going to be the day just because he was coming on the air. When they sign they sign, too hope for anything else is just gonna make you crazy - but it's fun for me to watch - SO KEEP AT IT!

I agree with Kerouac as far as August 1st though - holdouts can be expected all over the league, but after a week of missed time, that's when Graves really needs be taken to task - why you ask not hold him accountable to his earlier belief that he can get everyone in on time? Well, he hasn't proven to be very prophetic this offseason, why would he start being so now?

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Guys - you really all need to relax. I can't believe most of you made yourself believe today was going to be the day just because he was coming on the air. When they sign they sign, too hope for anything else is just gonna make you crazy - but it's fun for me to watch - SO KEEP AT IT!

I agree with Kerouac as far as August 1st though - holdouts can be expected all over the league, but after a week of missed time, that's when Graves really needs be taken to task - why you ask not hold him accountable to his earlier belief that he can get everyone in on time? Well, he hasn't proven to be very prophetic this offseason, why would he start being so now?

Good post. I thought a Boldin announcement quite possible but new we would never hear of a first rounder signing. I still disagree with the Aug 1 "deadline" but the logic of that deadline makes sense as well.

One thing, I just simply don't care about holdouts all over the league. It is a nice excuse and all but things could have been done. Some vision and early flexibility and maybe we are saying the Cards have all their picks signed. JMHO

 

[JeffGollin]

C'mon guys, why is everyone getting so worked up about a comment like this?
Because it's one more example of "commitment creep."

Each week the bar gets lowered a little bit farther.

Rod could learn a lot from Bill Parcells (who would never even vaguely suggest that something "might" happen unless already he had it in his hip pocket).

Before the draft, we were urged to wait til after the draft for additional FA signings to happen.

When that didn't happen, we were told to wait til just after June 1.

When nothing happened after June 1, we got the "judge us when we get to Camp" comment accompanied by something to the effect that Rod "is confident", "fervently hopes", "feels optimistic" that we'll have all our picks signed, sealed and delivered in time for the opening of Camp.

And now, with that in doubt, we're told that "it won't break our team" if the top guys aren't signed.

Sorry folks. For years I (and other Cardinal fans) have allowed ourselves to be talked into believing that things were OK when they weren't.

Example - We were told that our O-Line would "do OK" despite including guys like James Dexter, Joe Wolf and Matt Joyce (It became known as the infamous "78 Club" - for sacks permitted and average ground yards per game).

I fear that there is something vaguely Tobinesque in the way the bar is being lowered. I hope Rod proves me wrong, but it concerns me.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Guys - you really all need to relax. I can't believe most of you made yourself believe today was going to be the day just because he was coming on the air. When they sign they sign, too hope for anything else is just gonna make you crazy - but it's fun for me to watch - SO KEEP AT IT!

I agree with Kerouac as far as August 1st though - holdouts can be expected all over the league, but after a week of missed time, that's when Graves really needs be taken to task - why you ask not hold him accountable to his earlier belief that he can get everyone in on time? Well, he hasn't proven to be very prophetic this offseason, why would he start being so now?

Plus it makes me nervous when you are the voice of reason regarding Graves. Makes me think of the apocalypse.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Tobinesque [/COLOR]

Does that mean we actually have a shot at making the playoffs and winning a game? If so, I'll take it over "Gravesque" or "McGinnisesque".

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
C'mon guys, why is everyone getting so worked up about a comment like this?
Because it's one more example of "commitment creep."

Each week the bar gets lowered a little bit farther.

Rod could learn a lot from Bill Parcells (who would never even vaguely suggest that something "might" happen unless already he had it in his hip pocket).

Before the draft, we were urged to wait til after the draft for additional FA signings to happen.

When that didn't happen, we were told to wait til just after June 1.

When nothing happened after June 1, we got the "judge us when we get to Camp" comment accompanied by something to the effect that Rod "is confident", "fervently hopes", "feels optimistic" that we'll have all our picks signed, sealed and delivered in time for the opening of Camp.

And now, with that in doubt, we're told that "it won't break our team" if the top guys aren't signed.

Sorry folks. For years I (and other Cardinal fans) have allowed ourselves to be talked into believing that things were OK when they weren't.

.

What Jeff Said.

I was being so damn optimistic today that this is a real blow to the ribs.

We gotta change the MO of this team, it has to start sometime, so why not now(with apologies to Shaq).