The only case against Reuben Foster

[Chopper0080]

So, there is a ton of chatter about all of the "issues" with drafting Reuben Foster. If we take CBUS and the better parts of the internet into account, there is really one one issue, and then other is an idea that there could be an issue.

The could be is his shoulders. Personally, from what I know, this is just precautionary and nothing more. It wouldn't be an issue if he didn't come out of Alabama.

What the real issue is, and it is very similar to RBs, do you want to take a player at the top of round 1 who you probably should not give a 2nd contract to due to the position he plays?

The argument is the same as the argument against re-signing David Johnson. Foster will play a position in the NFL which gets beat up. Because of that, 3-4 ILBs tend to not have long careers in the sun. Also, if you look at the top end of the position by salary, few of the players really impact the game.

10 ILBs in the NFL get paid over an average of 5.5mil per year according to overthcap.com. Here is that list.
1-Luke Kuechly
2-Bobby Wagner
3-Navarro Bowman
4-Brian Cushing
5-Daryl Washington
6-Brandon Marshall
7-David Harris
8-Danny Travathan
9-Derrick Johnson
10-Lawrence Timmons

We can all agree that Kuechly and Wagner are special players, but outside of those two, the list is pretty meh at this point of their careers. Of those two, Kuechly is having concussion issues. So, the issue is, do we want to invest in a top 15 guy in the first round who recent history says will not be a great option for a 2nd contract?

That is the only real concern in all of this.

 

[BleedRed]

Foster is the player I would love to see us take at 13, however I don't believe he will be there. I think the Bengals will take him at 9.

 

[Chopper0080]

Foster is the player I would love to see us take at 13, however I don't believe he will be there. I think the Bengals will take him at 9.

Agreed.

 

[Mitch]

Good points, Chopper. There are other good ILBers in the draft and I am still hopeful that the Cardinals re-sign Sio Moore.

I prefer Reddick because he's fast, versatile and one of the best pass rushers in the draft. I think he would be special storming the A gaps and doing twist stunts. Plus, he was a spy LB last year at Temple and with RW in SEA, we need spies.

 

[Bodha]

In regards to the combine issue, it isn't an issue. A staff member wasn't willing to give him info, there was a long wait, and Foster reacted. Meh. If you were trying to pick you a check with a life changing amount of money when you were in your early 20's, you may not be so patient either. Aggressive tendencies aren't considered red flags for LBs anyways. The great ones all had them.

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[WildBB]

The reasons you outlined for the position is why they almost always slip in drafts.

The argument for, is in the 5 seasons that you do have them, they can make significant contributions. Possibly take D's to the next level.

Best scenario is to find that ILB in the 2nd round, like we did with Dansby and DW. But I don't see one that's likely to make that impact unless you believe R. McMillian can.

 

[Chopper0080]

In regards to the combine issue, it isn't an issue. A staff member wasn't willing to give him info, there was a long wait, and Foster reacted. Meh. If you were trying to pick you a check with a life changing amount of money when you were in your early 20's, you may not be so patient either. Aggressive tendencies aren't considered red flags for LBs anyways. The great ones all had them.

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You keep fighting your one man fight. You can either accept that teams aren't worried about the combine issue or not, but it doesn't change that fact that they aren't.

 

[Solar7]

In regards to the combine issue, it isn't an issue. A staff member wasn't willing to give him info, there was a long wait, and Foster reacted. Meh. If you were trying to pick you a check with a life changing amount of money when you were in your early 20's, you may not be so patient either. Aggressive tendencies aren't considered red flags for LBs anyways. The great ones all had them.

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The counter argument to this if you had literally millions of dollars on the line and one of the most important moments of your life in front of you, you'd be on your best behavior.

It's just like the issue with DWash and the weed - I don't care that he smoked, I care he was stupid enough to continue getting caught and prioritize it over being on the field and getting paid.

 

[Chopper0080]

The counter argument to this if you had literally millions of dollars on the line and one of the most important moments of your life in front of you, you'd be on your best behavior.

It's just like the issue with DWash and the weed - I don't care that he smoked, I care he was stupid enough to continue getting caught and prioritize it over being on the field and getting paid.

If teams were voicing their concerns about it, it would be an issue, but they aren't. That is the point. I get Bodha is concerned about it. He can be. The point is that teams aren't concerned, so raising it as an established prospect concern is not accurate.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's like the Russell Wilson height issue. It could have not been an issue for someone on this board, but it was an obvious concern for NFL people. To state it then isn't a concern when discussing that draft would have been silly.

 

[Solar7]

If teams were voicing their concerns about it, it would be an issue, but they aren't. That is the point. I get Bodha is concerned about it. He can be. The point is that teams aren't concerned, so raising it as an established prospect concern is not accurate.

Bodha's post reads to me like he's saying teams shouldn't be concerned? Is his bold text something I'm missing from another thread?

I'm not sure where you're pulling it from that teams aren't concerned though, I mean, this incident warranted an apology letter from him to teams, and it's reported that one team has pulled him from their draft board (admittedly pre-combine), but do you really think this isn't affecting him at all or being brought up in draft interviews?

 

[JeffGollin]

Chop - I'm with you on the issue, but I do think the "sabotaged the biggest day of his career" argument carries some weight. But I also feel that the implied counterargument - that Foster's killer mentality and other attributes outweigh that one negative - should be respected.

As for "teams not being concerned" about the Foster outburst: Hey! It's Draft Time." Nobody tells the truth.

Based on the "all it takes is one GM who loves him" argument, I'm guessing Foster will be gone by #15. Could we draft him at #13? If he were there, we could (but not a definite/probably a maybe).

 

[Chopper0080]

Bodha's post reads to me like he's saying teams shouldn't be concerned? Is his bold text something I'm missing from another thread?

I'm not sure where you're pulling it from that teams aren't concerned though, I mean, this incident warranted an apology letter from him to teams, and it's reported that one team has pulled him from their draft board (admittedly pre-combine), but do you really think this isn't affecting him at all or being brought up in draft interviews?

Teams went to his special conference where he explained the circumstance to all in attendance. All teams were represented. Numerous reports are that the situation was blown out of proportion, and it is not an issue for teams. Teams do not feel it is an issue.

Bodha might, and that is ok. It might adjust how he puts together his draft board, or how he would draft differently than what happens. But, to try and justify his narrative by claiming it is based on actual draft narrative is not accurate.

 

[Bodha]

Bodha's post reads to me like he's saying teams shouldn't be concerned? Is his bold text something I'm missing from another thread?

That brilliant post was Choppers, not mine.


He thinks it was the combine workers fault for having the audacity to tell King Reuben Foster to wait his turn, and that Fosters aggressive reaction was completely warranted and to be expected given Foster is a finely tuned athletic machine.

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[Solar7]

That brilliant post was Choppers, not mine.


He thinks it was the combine workers fault for having the audacity to tell King Reuben Foster to wait his turn, and that Fosters aggressive reaction was completely warranted and to be expected given Foster is a finely tuned athletic machine.

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Gotcha. I'm on your side on this one.

Teams went to his special conference where he explained the circumstance to all in attendance. All teams were represented. Numerous reports are that the situation was blown out of proportion, and it is not an issue for teams. Teams do not feel it is an issue.

Bodha might, and that is ok. It might adjust how he puts together his draft board, or how he would draft differently than what happens. But, to try and justify his narrative by claiming it is based on actual draft narrative is not accurate.

I'd be open to a link from any respected writer that says "it is not an issue for teams," because I've been following the draft pretty closely, and while I've heard it was a little blown out of proportion, I haven't heard that it's not at all an issue for teams. Everything is an issue for teams at this point in the process.

 

[Mitch]

Gotcha. I'm on your side on this one.



I'd be open to a link from any respected writer that says "it is not an issue for teams," because I've been following the draft pretty closely, and while I've heard it was a little blown out of proportion, I haven't heard that it's not at all an issue for teams. Everything is an issue for teams at this point in the process.

It's like dating -- if you need an excuse not to like someone, you can think of just about anything.

A team that likes Foster enough will say "I do" to him in the draft.

For the Cardinals, if Foster checks out medically (and that's a reasonably big "if"), they could very well pounce on him if he's there at #13.

As I've mentioned before if Foster is taken by the Cardinals -- in typical BA fashion, some fans like myself will feel tortured watching Dansby get the vast majority of the snaps while this consensus 1st team All-American rides the pine -- and as each week BA says in his pressers how difficult it is for a rookie to learn the system and how hard it is to learn how to become a pro.

 

[oaken1]

come on. the dude has a history of concussion...anyone in the know, knows once you start getting concussions they start coming easier.... he changed his tackling style so he was no longer leading with his head, to avoid more concussions...and after he started hitting with his shoulders....the shoulders broke down and became an issue.
the kid is a baller no doubt, but his body OBVIOUSLY cannot handle the beating he has been putting on it....against college level players....
the concussion issue,...the shoulder issues...they aint going away for the kid...they will get worse...there is a high risk you wont have to worry about deciding rather or not to sign him to a second contract,...because he will be playing golf and trying to sell life insurance when that time comes.
there are ILB's in this draft who provide greater risk(V)reward than foster....as dynamic?? No... but fantastic backers who are much safer picks and are far more likely to be helping your team by staying on the field..........I wouldn't take Foster before the 2nd round....and only there because he is so damned talented and effective

 

[Chopper0080]

come on. the dude has a history of concussion...anyone in the know, knows once you start getting concussions they start coming easier.... he changed his tackling style so he was no longer leading with his head, to avoid more concussions...and after he started hitting with his shoulders....the shoulders broke down and became an issue.
the kid is a baller no doubt, but his body OBVIOUSLY cannot handle the beating he has been putting on it....against college level players....
the concussion issue,...the shoulder issues...they aint going away for the kid...they will get worse...there is a high risk you wont have to worry about deciding rather or not to sign him to a second contract,...because he will be playing golf and trying to sell life insurance when that time comes.
there are ILB's in this draft who provide greater risk(V)reward than foster....as dynamic?? No... but fantastic backers who are much safer picks and are far more likely to be helping your team by staying on the field..........I wouldn't take Foster before the 2nd round....and only there because he is so damned talented and effective

A legitimate concern which is why teams are having him in for team medical checks.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Bodha]

It's like dating -- if you need an excuse not to like someone, you can think of just about anything.

Youre doing the same thing Chopper is doing. Youre taking the blame off Foster. "It was the combine workers fault. If you dont like an unprofessional nimrod, then thats your problem, not Fosters. Youre just overthinking it "

You dont have to think too hard if your date meets your parents and she punches your mom in the face because the casserole was cold. But maybe im just picky.

 

[Mitch]

Youre doing the same thing Chopper is doing. Youre taking the blame off Foster. "It was the combine workers fault. If you dont like an unprofessional nimrod, then thats your problem, not Fosters. Youre just overthinking it "

You dont have to think too hard if your date meets your parents and she punches your mom in the face because the casserole was cold. But maybe im just picky.

I see your point. I don't think the combine incident is as much of a deal breaker as you, but I certainly agree that Foster should have shown far greater maturity, especially under the circumstances.

That said, i do not want the Cardinals to draft Foster...not because of the Combine incident, but because of his injuries. Head and shoulder injuries to ILBers are cause for concern, especially when 1st round picks are signed to 5 year contracts.

 

[Ronin]

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account@RapSheet 1h1 hour ago
Combine medical re-checks are this week & #Bama LB Reuben Foster was asked back after his incident. His shoulder has full range of motion

 

[Bodha]

I see your point. I don't think the combine incident is as much of a deal breaker as you, but I certainly agree that Foster should have shown far greater maturity, especially under the circumstances.

Its an enormous issue to me. Because it wasnt a simple "it happens" situation given the time and place.

If you freak out on a cashier at walmart, fine. It happens I guess.

But if youre visiting the white house for the 1 time in your life, and you freak out at security guard in the oval office.....thats a lack of awareness on a hall of fame stupidity level. Its hard to be a functional person in society if you are that ignorant of time & place behavior.


And really the combine is the "white house visit" of every draftees life. Its the most important day in their existence, and he couldnt be a professional on that 1 day. I cant think of a bigger "intelligence" red flag.

 

[Matt L]

S

What the real issue is, and it is very similar to RBs, do you want to take a player at the top of round 1 who you probably should not give a 2nd contract to due to the position he plays?

The argument is the same as the argument against re-signing David Johnson. Foster will play a position in the NFL which gets beat up. Because of that, 3-4 ILBs tend to not have long careers in the sun. Also, if you look at the top end of the position by salary, few of the players really impact the game.

I think this is the biggest issue with drafting Foster, adding injury concerns like concussions/bad shoulders should tilt the scales against picking him in the top half of the first round.

In the past four years, the team has spent its top two picks on the following positions:

OG - Cooper
ILB - Minter
SS/ILB - Buchannon
TE - Niklas
OT - Humphries
DE(Edge) - Golden
DT - Nkemdiche

Ultimately, they used premium picks on average (at best) players at average positions (Guard, inside linebacker) for nearly half of their recent top selections. I dont think using another top pick on an inside linebacker makes a lot of sense.

 

[NMCard]

Foster might have to get another surgery. Seems he fail his 2nd physical.

http://sportsnaut.com/2017/04/repor...heck-need-second-surgery-repair-rotator-cuff/

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd have thought this would be front page NFLN or ESPN news.

Is Sportsnaut a reputable source?