The people who are starting to defend the Pace pick:

[Snakester]

The fact is that we didn't improve our passrush. Pace is not even as good as KVB or Dennis Johnson. Not taking Suggs at #6 was as stupid as letting Boston go. And anyone who thinks we got a good deal in the trade with New Orleans should shoot themselves and make this world a better place. The Johnson pick was not as bad but was a reach as well. Pace should have went in the third round because he does not have that much talent and is very average. I would rather have Wakefield rushing the passer than this guy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Snakester
The fact is that we didn't improve our passrush. Pace is not even as good as KVB or Dennis Johnson. Not taking Suggs at #6 was as stupid as letting Boston go. And anyone who thinks we got a good deal in the trade with New Orleans should shoot themselves and make this world a better place. The Johnson pick was not as bad but was a reach as well. Pace should have went in the third round because he does not have that much talent and is very average. I would rather have Wakefield rushing the passer than this guy.

Hmm....third rounder? Not according to Kirwan who talks to NFL teams (I guess you didn't read my earlier post).

18 18 Arizona Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest
Pat Kirwan's Analysis
Calvin Pace is a surprise pick at No. 18. Most people I spoke with had a second-round grade on him. He plays hard, and takes the spot most people thought was going to be filled by Suggs. He is heavier than Suggs and may be a better fit for their four man front. It's obvious that they thought Suggs was more of a linebacker, and they wanted a guy who could put his hand on the ground.

 

[JeffGollin]

Interestingly, the NYC media wasn't their usual derisive selves toward the selection of Pace.

Reason - The Giants had targeted McDougle and in their myopic frame of mind assumed the Eagles had "stolen" McDougle from them and not the Cardinals.

And guess who the Giants were ready to leap on in Round 2: Pace.

So despite our own outrage over the pick (one that will remain justified until Pace proves us wrong) - others out there in the "world" are a bit more restrained (maybe the better word would be "charitable) toward Rod and Mac this morning.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Interestingly, the NYC media wasn't their usual derisive selves toward the selection of Pace.

Reason - The Giants had targeted McDougle and in their myopic frame of mind assumed the Eagles had "stolen" McDougle from them and not the Cardinals.

And guess who the Giants were ready to leap on in Round 2: Pace.

So despite our own outrage over the pick (one that will remain justified until Pace proves us wrong) - others out there in the "world" are a bit more restrained (maybe the better word would be "charitable) toward Rod and Mac this morning.

Exactly. Pace was a guy rated to go in the second, and we reached. I wasn't like what some people said, that basically he was a fourth rounder.

 

[mdsisquo]

Originally posted by Ed B

Never mind the fact that Pace is very, very similar (almost identical) in every way (size, speed, production) to a player we already have........Dennis Johnson, the last pick in the 3rd round in 2002.

But i thought you said Dennis will be a pro-bowl DE in a couple seasons. So, you must believe that we just drafted a future pro-bowler

 

[ajcardfan]

If Pace turns out to be really good, it'll be a case of the Cardinals being flat out lucky for once. Not smart or aggressive. Johnson is a pick that I can live with a lot more.

BTW, Jurecki said last night that the Dolphins offered Rodgers, their second round pick and next year's first for #18. That sounds like a lot, and if it's true, I don't understand why they didn't take it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by ajcardfan

BTW, Jurecki said last night that the Dolphins offered Rodgers, their second round pick and next year's first for #18. That sounds like a lot, and if it's true, I don't understand why they didn't take it.

That shows you how much they actually wanted Pace. If that deal was so much better than Pace, they would have jumped on it.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Ed B
So now KVB is a defensive tackle and calvin pace is a pass-rush specialist?

Add to it that Pace never had a weight program at WF. He needs to put on strength which means weight which means losing speed. Pace will become a run stuffing DE. Where is our pass rusher??? Oh...DJ....LOL

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
That shows you how much they actually wanted Pace. If that deal was so much better than Pace, they would have jumped on it.

Or how desperate they were because they made the worst decision in draft history (welll that's an exageration but it is close) by trading down to 17/18, swapping 2nds and giving up a 4th. PANIC....PANIC...

Graves plan backfired because he did not calculate the risk correctly and took too great a risk. Graves screwed up. And, Graves is still running the show. Not good man. Not good.
I could have made that stupid trade.

 

[az643dp]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
BTW, Jurecki said last night that the Dolphins offered Rodgers, their second round pick and next year's first for #18. That sounds like a lot, and if it's true, I don't understand why they didn't take it.

They didn't jump on the trade because the Fish had the 17th pick in the 2nd round and it there most likely would not have been a decent pass rusher then.

 

[ChiCard]

Re: Re: The people who are starting to defend the Pace pick:

Originally posted by mdsisquo
But i thought you said Dennis will be a pro-bowl DE in a couple seasons. So, you must believe that we just drafted a future pro-bowler

Excellent point, sisqo, but by Ed's logic, Pace is not a player who is ready to contribute......if you agree with his statement that Johnson will be a pro bowler in a couple years and you're calling Pace similar, we may not see much from Pace until 2006 or something like that.

And isn't #18 a little high to draft a potential "project"?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: The people who are starting to defend the Pace pick:

Originally posted by ChiCard
Excellent point, sisqo, but by Ed's logic, Pace is not a player who is ready to contribute......if you agree with his statement that Johnson will be a pro bowler in a couple years and you're calling Pace similar, we may not see much from Pace until 2006 or something like that.

And isn't #18 a little high to draft a potential "project"?

It is high, but talent evaluators have to trust their draft board.

I would've liked them to trade down, and select Pace at least ten spots lower and adding at least an extra pick.

 

[JeffGollin]

Pace was a lame-o pick. But he's ours and he does have some ability. You can't get the toothpaste back in the tube, so why don't we get off the negative bandwagon and make him feel welcome when he gets here.

(i.e. that doesn't mean many of us won't be gnashing our teeth in private over the draft screw up)

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The people who are starting to defend the Pace pick:

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
It is high, but talent evaluators have to trust their draft board.

I would've liked them to trade down, and select Pace at least ten spots lower and adding at least an extra pick.

The Giants of course drafted Joseph....but they may have picked Pace instead.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The people who are starting to defend the Pace pick:

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
The Giants of course drafted Joseph....but they may have picked Pace instead.

Yeah, and I wouldn't touch Joseph with a ten foot pole in the first round, but that's just my opinion.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Pace was a lame-o pick. But he's ours and he does have some ability. You can't get the toothpaste back in the tube, so why don't we get off the negative bandwagon and make him feel welcome when he gets here.

(i.e. that doesn't mean many of us won't be gnashing our teeth in private over the draft screw up)

I do not blame Pace. Why should he be blamed. Heck...He made out like a bandit.

I blame Rod Graves.....period. He should get canned. Since when should a team have to wait a couple years to see if their first round must have guy pans out. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[artp]

OK, so must of us had PAce as a 2nd rounder. What does that mean? Wouldn't that be a player who should be a quality contributor in his second year? That sounds pretty good. Of course, we all wanted the next great DE. But, Coach Mac wanted to solidify WR. Fair enough, its his team. If Pace lives up to a 2nd rd talent, good. I think the ones we should be worried about are Dl W Bryant and LB L Fisher, our 1 and 2 last draft.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by RedStorm
I do not blame Pace. Why should he be blamed. Heck...He made out like a bandit.

I blame Rod Graves.....period. He should get canned. Since when should a team have to wait a couple years to see if their first round must have guy pans out. Stupid is as stupid does.

....and stupid is as stupid posts.
Have you not read Mac and Graves post draft comments?
He will be tried immediately at both R and L sides. He most likely will be seeing some playing time right away.

I think some of the couch potato QB's crystal balls are getting a little hazy.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
....and stupid is as stupid posts.
Have you not read Mac and Graves post draft comments?
He will be tried immediately at both R and L sides. He most likely will be seeing some playing time right away.

I think some of the couch potato QB's crystal balls are getting a little hazy.

First, he will have to see playing time right away. He is our answer to all our pass rush problems. Anything less and Graves would be admitting he screwed up. Suggs will make more of an impact...

Tango... Will you be writing a post or article soon about a love rekindled. One about a Prince in shinning armor coming to your rescue since you lost Jake. I guess you are on the rebound..

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by RedStorm
First, he will have to see playing time right away. He is our answer to all our pass rush problems. Anything less and Graves would be admitting he screwed up. Suggs will make more of an impact...

Tango... Will you be writing a post or article soon about a love rekindled. One about a Prince in shinning armor coming to your rescue since you lost Jake. I guess you are on the rebound..

Yeah I can't wait till we see some Calvin Pace erotica.

It'll top the Plummer stuff for sure.

Hey tango, I know you're real dense and all, but <B>Rod Graves admitted that this is not the player they wanted</b>. Process that for a second. Use diagrams if it helps. Sock puppets, maybe.

 

[Shuesters2]

Pace comments,
Was he a reach? Maybe, but most of the anti-Pace comments sound remarkably like those made about Vanden Bosch two years ago. I had Pace as a early 2nd rounder, but haven't seen him play. Have you?
The Cards lack of success in free agency and retaining their own players force them to draft for need every year. With Boston resigned, and DEs Colvin or Holliday how different this draft would have been. Instead we had to trade down to fill the multitude of holes. (losing our 4th was stupid!) With the trade down I would have picked Johnson and Kelsey. I'm not so sure Pace isn't better than Kelsey who had mid-late 1st round ratings on a lot of board but went mid-2nd. Maybe we should let Pace play first like KVB before we ride anyone out of town on a rail.
Of course, he might also be the next Michael Stone. I wouldn't throw that rail away.

Shuesters

 

[CardinalChris]

Originally posted by Ed B
We're not talking about a guy who was picked 5 or 6 picks "too high", like people splitting hairs over where New Orleans drafted Sullivan......that's silly. We're talking about a guy who may potentially have been drafted 2 rounds too soon.

The way this pick was met by absolute and complete universal laughter around the league and media makes me very, very skeptical over the postulations about "Well how do you know someone else wasn't going to take him in the first round???".....another argument you could apply to any player we took at #18.

He shot up the board and was expected to sneak into the late, late first or early second..... Brayton was another.

Do I agree with the pick? No way. You said it best. Graves outsmarted himself. The trade would have been fine if Michael Haynes was still there or MCDougal...... Somebody said Pace was the third DE on AZ board? Sounds high, and he is a mirror player to what we have.

Oh yeah, and the second round swap and fourth rounder were a crap trade. As was not trading our first rounder to Miami for next years 1st and #49 this year. Gilbert makes no sense after Gerald Haynes and Larry Foster? We have 3 Larry Fosters on our roster already..... Just playing the numbers game... overload a position with players, last one standing must be good....... I don't agree with this tactic......

 

[General Chaos]

Pace is not Dennis Johnson. Johnson's biggest weakness is his upperbody strength. Pace was recorded at benching around 450lbs. Pace has Johnson's athletic abilty but also is very strong. I am not in complete defense of the pick but lets give the guy a chance. Would you rather not have him on the roster and had Wakefield starting again. Suggs is gone, it's time to move on.