The Rays, the Cardinals, and being a real fan

[Mulli]

EH..... Sorry but no sympathy for a cubs fan. You guys choose to fill that stadium because of the historical significance of the ballpark, not for the team. That in turn lines the trib co./Zell's pockets win or lose. The cubs have managed to throw money around like it grows on tree's thus driving up the cost for other teams to keep their core players around or be active in free agency. 100 years....that hurts but im not shedding a tear for that club. they deserve it.

To me, this doesn't really apply to the current Cubs to the same degree anymore. The Cubs have won the division twice in a row. Not exactly the same crapola team that didn't at least try to put a winning product on the field.

 

[wembley88]

Here's my teams so far in 2008:

Baseball - Cubs - won division. Was wanting more but what was i expecting...
Basketball - Celtics - won NBA
Football - Scotland - Celtic - won league
Football - England - MK Dons - won league
American Football - Cards - .........

 

[DeAnna]

Sigh...why do people need to re-hash this and question other people's fanhood? The more the merrier!

Boivin: Poor fans? Nope, we're discerning

by Paola Boivin - Oct. 18, 2008 06:10 PM
The Arizona Republic


"It's important to me that we put a team on the field that this city, these fans can be proud of."
- Ken Whisenhunt

Those words, which the Cardinals coach said when he took the job in 2007, came to mind when another of those "Best Fans, Worst Fans" lists made the rounds recently. Arizona sports fans often are nailed for being distracted and apathetic, when I say they should be applauded for being discriminate and level-leaded.
Whisenhunt had it right. Give us a good product and we'll give you our attention. That's not a lousy fan, it's a discerning one.
Excuse me, but too many confuse hysteria with passion. European soccer can have its hooligans, thank you very much. Remember the 39 who died in 1985 when English fans rioted at the European Cup in Brussels?
Or do you really want to be Philadelphia, where the Eagles' old haunt, Veterans Stadium, housed a courtroom and a Municipal Court judge on game days to deal with out-of-control fans? We won't even delve into the whole booing St. Nick stuff. That's just sacrilegious.
People. Get . . . a . . . grip!
The East Coast has fanaticism. We have perspective. There's the collapse of the Detroit Lions and the collapse of AIG. They shouldn't be treated with equal disgust.
It's like modern-day philosopher Bill Murray once said: Don't drive angry.
Don't root angry, either.
When the Suns failed to reach the NBA Finals the past two seasons, disappointment and frustration followed but not all-out public disorder. Fans complained but also engaged in analysis and debate about the team's offensive philosophy, its lineup choices and its personnel options. There were no bomb threats or "for sale" signs stuck in the yard of then-coach Mike D'Antoni, at least not ones he didn't put out there himself.
We argued, we pouted and then we shook it off, hiked up Camelback Mountain and called it a day.
It's just like Coyotes goalie Ilya Bryzgalov said in a popular YouTube video: "It's only game. Why you have to be mad?"
Exactly.
What defines a good fan? It comes down to rhetoric. Some see it as unfailing loyalty and passion. It could also describe a fan base that's more discriminate with its entertainment dollar.
We know what we are: a transplanted fan base with varying degrees of loyalties that doesn't need a media that manufactures controversy.
We're comfortable in our skin. Why does everyone else seem to have such an issue with it?
ESPN.com recently picked the Cardinals as having the worst sports fans in the NFL. Why? Because for so many years they chose not to back a franchise that was tight with its money, that made sloppy personnel decisions, that asked its fans to sit in an atypical stadium for an NFL game? That's not a bad fan, that's an astute one.
Who can blame them for choosing other ways to spend their money?
Now that the organization is fundamentally stronger, fan support has been solid.
"Our fans have been fantastic," Whisenhunt said. "I really believe it's a big reason we're 9-2 at home."
We appreciate sports when it's done right. That's why The Sporting News just ranked Phoenix No. 6 in its list of the 400 best sports cities in the world, ahead of Denver, Los Angeles, Chicago and Pittsburgh.
As Coyotes coach Wayne Gretzky said, the Valley "has hosted Super Bowls, World Series, BCS championships and Stanley Cup playoff games, and they support and expect winning teams."
What's wrong with that?

 

[Skkorpion]

Interesting subject and I can understand both positions on the bandwagon fans. Local apathy used to upset me but ownership was so incompetent my anger was partially misdirected.

I can only control my own participation. As long as I can afford the cost, I won't miss a game.

 

[RonF]

The Cards are an exception to the hard core fan rule.

The franchise had 100's of thousands of fans and ran them all off by putting a terrible product on display in one of the worst places in the country to play day games before late October or November.

Home attendance in 1988 was over 470,000. By 2003 that number was 288,499

Being a hard core fan is one thing. The Cards asked their customer base to be hard boiled fans instead.

So anyone who has since jumped BACK on the bandwagon is welcome in my book.

 

[chickenhead]

All I know is that being a Suns fan has resulted in its share of heartache, and even though some like to say that Phoenix fans are fair-weather, many who gave up on the Cards never gave up on the Suns under Colangelo because they were usually competitive and no one doubted the motives. The Suns fans I know seem to be angrier with the Sarver administration now than anytime they missed the playoffs. Ownership goes a long way.

 

[Ed Burmila]

True, I suppose anything would be better than 30,000 cowboy fans in our stadium.

The stadium was a big issue. Every team thinks it needs a new stadium, but like no other team in no other sport the Cards NEEDED a new stadium. Not in that "we want more luxury boxes" way - in the "our fans take their lives into their hands to attend day games" way.

Even when the Cards were bad, a roofed stadium probably would have added 10% to the attendance. I had the pleasure of being at the official "hottest game in NFL history" versus NE with Tom Tupa as our starting QB. It was absolute hell.

 

[phillycard]

Great point. Did Tim McDonald play in the Super Bowl with the 9ers?

Yah Mulli, and broke my heart in the process.

 

[Duckjake]

True, I suppose anything would be better than 30,000 cowboy fans in our stadium.

The stadium was a big issue. Every team thinks it needs a new stadium, but like no other team in no other sport the Cards NEEDED a new stadium. Not in that "we want more luxury boxes" way - in the "our fans take their lives into their hands to attend day games" way.

Even when the Cards were bad, a roofed stadium probably would have added 10% to the attendance. I had the pleasure of being at the official "hottest game in NFL history" versus NE with Tom Tupa as our starting QB. It was absolute hell.

Another thing from a marketing point of view that affected the Cards from having to play at SDS is that once the game was over Sunday, and the banners came down, you wouldn't even know there was an NFL team in Phoenix.

The new stadium provides a reminder every day that the Cards are the home team.

 

[slanidrac16]

I welcome all bandwagoners but you have to know the victories won't taste nearly as sweet to them as it will to us hardcore fans.

Also, there are more Card fans then we might realize. I know there are some fans around here in Chicago but it's mostly older fellows that are passing on. Let's face it. There aren't too many fans that are going to wear their colors proud when year after year the team is drafting in the top 5.

When I went to the Cards game in St. Louis last year there were plenty of Cardinal fans. I'm sure many are/were Warner supporters, however, it was very evident when the Cards executed a successful play how many fans were still following the Cards.

As far as the Cubs go, their fan base backing started back in the 60's and 70's. The White Sox went on to broadcast most of there games on the "new' UHF channels while the Cubs remained on WGN, channel 9 which was going out all over the country. In essence, a fan of baseball in any deprived area of the country could always turn on the TV and catch a Cubs game, which to them, was the only game in town. It is a phenomenon that will never happen again because of the exposure ALL teams now enjoy via ESPN, FOX Sports, Internet , Monday night football, Thurday night football, blogs and so forth. The only reason I dislike the Cubs is because even after the Sox won the World Series, the excitement was short lived because of the "step-child" treatmenat of local media. Add to that the fact that Wrigley field is in the heart of downtown Chicago. Every "diehard" Cub fan could and would be replaced by an out of towner visiting the Windy City on any given day to see the "Charming" ballpark, which by the way is a dump compared to Cellular field.

 

[Pariah]

Getting bandwagon fans may be annoying, but ultimately it's a good thing. Grin, bear it and scoot over and make room for them on the bus.

 

[TruColor]

Another thing from a marketing point of view that affected the Cards from having to play at SDS is that once the game was over Sunday, and the banners came down, you wouldn't even know there was an NFL team in Phoenix.

The new stadium provides a reminder every day that the Cards are the home team.

I was absolutely stunned when I visited Phoenix back in the summer of 1998. My wife and I were on vacation - we started in Tucson and drove to Sedona - when she got a call to do a one-day consulting gig in Phoenix. Since we were coincidently already out there on vacation (we were living in Chicago at the time), she reluctantly said yes.

The day of her consulting job, I got a rental car and decided to take a tour of the Phoenix-area sports facilities. I started at the then-named Bank One Ballpark...we had just been to a game a couple of night prior, but I spent some time in the team shop. It was their expansion year, and I bought a few t-shirts. I then made it over to then-named America West Arena, and then later, headed over to Tempe to check out Sun Devil Stadium.

You're right - I couldn't even tell an NFL team played there. The team shop at the stadium was about as big as a walk-in closet, and was divided between ASU and Cardinals merchandise. And, the Cardinals merchandise that they DID have was pretty poor. I then went around some of the shops in and around Tempe looking for more Cardinals gear - couldn't really find much - and when I asked some of the store owners about it, they basically laughed in my face. It was really pathetic.

It was SO nice to see how much things had changed when I came back for that first preseason game in the new stadium in 2006. The new team shop - while not overly HUGE - is pretty well stocked, and there seems to be a larger presence of Cardinals paraphernalia around town that wasn't there before.

Like everyone says though - winning should cure almost all of these issues.

 

[football karma]

as has been posted often -- this is a town where literally 30%+ of the population has moved here from somewhere else in the last 10 years. Add in the fact the Cards moved here 10 years prior, you dont get a ton of support from the 70% that has been here longer than ten years.

How do you get the casual types and transplants to convert to fans?

The team has to have a four or five year run where they play compelling, relevant football --- it takes casual fans and "forces" many of them to make an emotional committment to the team.

Its why the Suns are popular. They have had stretches where they were legitimate contenders, played in big games and captured people's imaginations.

Its that emotional committment that keeps folks going through the low points that inevitably happen in sports.

I grew up watching the Coryell Cards with Hart, Metcalf, Gray, Wherli, et al --- and because of those teams, I couldnt give up the Cardinals if I tried (and goodness knows, there have been lots of times where I told myself I should)

 

[Duckjake]

as has been posted often -- this is a town where literally 30%+ of the population has moved here from somewhere else in the last 10 years. Add in the fact the Cards moved here 10 years prior, you dont get a ton of support from the 70% that has been here longer than ten years.

So is Austin, but that hasn't kept UT from having 100's of thousands of fans in the area.

What? They were UT fans before they moved to Austin?

Spoilsport!

 

[Ed Burmila]

It's funny that a lot of people have commented that the bad product and bad management is a valid reason for fans to stay home and not care (I agree - it is) yet the board as a whole is sharply critical when players want out for the same reason.

No one - end zone fan or Simeon Rice - wants to be on a team going down the toilet. I can't blame fans for staying home any more than I blame Rice for wanting to be on a decent team.

 

[HeavyB3]

I'm a fan of bandwagon fans, some convert to real fans. I spend mondays in my classroom after Cardinals wins showing highlights of the game on my smartboard trying to convert seventh graders. I know I have a few when they start drawing me the Cardinals logo for me to put on my bulletin board (probably have about 15 drawings of the cardinals logo up there). Before the Cowboys game I got alot of crap about how the Cardinals were going to lose, afterwords kids were telling me they were impressed and how their parents were cheering for the Cardinals and yelling at the TV when they blocked the punt.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'm a fan of bandwagon fans, some convert to real fans. I spend mondays in my classroom after Cardinals wins showing highlights of the game on my smartboard trying to convert seventh graders. I know I have a few when they start drawing me the Cardinals logo for me to put on my bulletin board (probably have about 15 drawings of the cardinals logo up there). Before the Cowboys game I got alot of crap about how the Cardinals were going to lose, afterwords kids were telling me they were impressed and how their parents were cheering for the Cardinals and yelling at the TV when they blocked the punt.

Way to go. Indoctrinate them early! Call it "intelligent design" or "civics" or "cult studies" but get 'er done.

 

[Gambit]

Ed, there are far more hard-core Cardinal fans than you think. Many may not have season tickets, but they are out there.

Agreed. Some have never been to Arizona (other than an airport), and some don't even know it yet, but there are many Cards fans out there. And they are gained by every heartrending loss (such as the Monday Night Meltdown) as much as by a big win like the Cowboys.

 

[Mulli]

It's funny that a lot of people have commented that the bad product and bad management is a valid reason for fans to stay home and not care (I agree - it is) yet the board as a whole is sharply critical when players want out for the same reason.

No one - end zone fan or Simeon Rice - wants to be on a team going down the toilet. I can't blame fans for staying home any more than I blame Rice for wanting to be on a decent team.

I see a BIG difference between a fan having to pay to see garbage, and a player complaining after getting paid to be part of the garbage.

 

[Gambit]

When they win it all, it will all the more sweeter. As a life-long fan, watching the White Sox win it all in 2005 was as good as it gets. I attended game 2 in Chicago and it is easily the best sporting event i have been to. If the Cards make the Super Bowl, i will definitely be there and hope it's comparable. I doubt that it will be only because game 2 was a home game for the Sox.I'm sure there would be more fans of the opponent than the Cards. But it will be nice to compare.

I am a huge 'Stros fan and was at WS game 4 here in Houston. It was one of the best games I ever went to, even though my team lost. It was still special to see a champion crowned.

I was also at 2004 NLCS Game 5 (the game Kent won on a walkoff), and 2005 NLDS Game 4 (the 18 inning game). Some incredible moments there I will cherish forever.

No football game I have attended thus far has been so joyous. But I've never been to a playoff football game--yet.

 

[chickenhead]

It's funny that a lot of people have commented that the bad product and bad management is a valid reason for fans to stay home and not care (I agree - it is) yet the board as a whole is sharply critical when players want out for the same reason.

No one - end zone fan or Simeon Rice - wants to be on a team going down the toilet. I can't blame fans for staying home any more than I blame Rice for wanting to be on a decent team.

I think that's mostly just the irrationally emotional part of being a fan: wouldn't we all love to play for our favorite team for a salary a lot less than what these stars are making? But at the same time, the truly upsetting thing is when a player wants to stay and the team makes no effort to accommodate.