The real price for failure:

[Catfish]

In a release to the press today at 3:15 Eastern time, Roger Goodell expressed concern that the 2011 season may be in jeopardy. He followed that by intimating that the league owners and the players association must move soon, and with a stepped up timetable if that is to be avoided.

We are now down to 13 days in order to fix what could not be fixed the past two years. The fact that they walked out of their earlier meeting without "having anything to talk about", leads me to believe that there is very little reason for hope of a miraculous breakthrough at this late stage.

While I wouldn't even begin to try and explain the loss on a league wide scale, I would point out what the cost would be to the Cardinals if this should happen. This cost would be far greater than anyone could have imagined.

If the CBA fails to get settled by the end of March 3rd, then we can all forget any action concerning the trading of players, or even of signing any unsigned or undrafted players. Our Cardinals would be left with a quarterback roster composed of Skelton, Hall, and the kid from the minors, (plus any QB they could draft). Further, the owners would almost certainly initate a lockout of players until the matter gets settled, and that would forego any hope of players working out with the strength and conditioning coach, or with any of the coaches of position players.

I have given Coach Whizenhunt his due credit for the hire of Ray Horton as a Defensive Co-ordinator to fix the mess that has become our defense.
The lockout of the players, however, would continue the terrible position that our team has been placed in for yet another year, and he would have absolutely no chance to fix the problem that he created with his knee-jerk reaction that vacated our QB talent just days before the new 2010 season was due to start. Now the true price will be paid by the Big Red. The only thing that will continue in this scenario is that our players will all get yet another year older.

I can think of no single move by any coach in the history of the NFL that would have been more devastating to a team than what Whiz accomplished by his elevating Anderson to starter, and junking Lineart. Not even Mike Ditka's selling out his entire draft for the right to take Ricky Williams was as devastating to a team as this move was, and to have it continue for yet a second year is unforgivable in my estimation. To have old players age for yet another year before anything can be done to fix the problem except to hire a DC, will almost surely set this organization back years. No one here deserves this, not the ownership, not the players, and certainly not the ones who pay for this, the fans.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I can think of no single move by any coach in the history of the NFL that would have been more devastating to a team than what Whiz accomplished by his elevating Anderson to starter, and junking Lineart.

You slay me Catfish, seriously, this is the funniest thing I've read on the board in weeks.

 

[ARodg]

I can think of no single move by any coach in the history of the NFL that would have been more devastating to a team than what Whiz accomplished by his elevating Anderson to starter, and junking Lineart.

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[Second Deck]

You may think it is funny but going from a super bowl contender after all these years of not even getting a sniff of the playoffs then to self destruct a good team with a terrible QB decision is all on Whiz. It should have been an easy division title in the NFC West and to finsih last is not funny to me.

 

[TJ]

I can think of no single move by any coach in the history of the NFL that would have been more devastating to a team than what Whiz accomplished by his elevating Anderson to starter, and junking Lineart. Not even Mike Ditka's selling out his entire draft for the right to take Ricky Williams was as devastating to a team as this move was, and to have it continue for yet a second year is unforgivable in my estimation.

This is not the most devastating move in the history of the NFL. This is an over exaggeration if I've ever heard one. The Ditka move you referenced involved mortgaging the future of the Saints to get Ricky Williams. How about the Vikings trading for Hershel Walker while giving the Cowboys several draft picks, which turned into Emmit Smith and other impact players?

As a matter of fact, I would say drafting Matt Leinart in the 1st round of the 2006 draft was a more devastating move. In the 5 years he was here, he didnt prove much except that he could hold a beer bong and act like a fool when things didnt go his way. This is a sign of a mentally weak athlete. I was a big proponent of Leinart until he decided to whine about his QB situation during the preseason to the media and not address his coach first. It seemed as if he entitled to the position based on simply taking a back seat to Kurt for 3 years. Separate the choice of Leinart v. DA and simply focus on Matt himself. Is that the type of player you want leading the offense for years to come? Take into consideration that no one in the organization seemed to stand up for him, including Fitz, Whiz and even Kurt. He lost the locker room. In the grand scheme of things, it may have been the right move based on his attitude and his bonus he would have had in 2011. Is it possible that Leinart would have earned us one or two extra victories last season? Perhaps. But you are making it sound as if we cut Drew Brees in favor of DA

 

[Buckybird]

How about the Vikings trading for Hershel Walker while giving the Cowboys several draft picks, which turned into Emmit Smith, Troy Aikmen and Michael Irvin?

Thats not true TJ

 

[TJ]

Thats not true TJ

youre right. Im sorry.

It was still considered "The Great Train Robbery." Other impact players did come to the cowboys though, making it one of the worst decisions for the Vikings in the history of the NFL. Surely worse than the Leinart fiasco.

Ohh and

Must return the favor, dork

 

[Snakester]

What's done is done. Whiz letting Leinart go was stupid. I think most can agree that it was a bonehead move. I would love to see Whiz get on his hands and knees and beg Leinart to come back, but it won't happen. If the CBA doesn't get signed until right before the season starts then we will have to go with Skelton and or whoever we draft at QB if we even draft one. If we can't get Orton or Kolb I would just go with Skelton.

 

[Early]

As terrible as Anderson is, Leinart is even worse. If he was better, he would have won the competition, it was open for long time, and Whis starts the best players. At least Anderson dares to play, and tries to attack defenses.

Matt Leinart pick is the one of the most devastating one in Cardinals history and he is arguably one of the biggest busts in modern NFL history. And he is one of the worst QB's I have ever seen play. He is one of the few i know that I can say is scared in that pocket and completely afraid to play.

He is really that bad. He sucks.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Awesome, I thought that last season would be the end of the Leinart sucks / Whis sucks arguements on the board.

Everyone is focusing on Catfish's last line and missing the real point.

This lockout hurts the Cardinals in so many ways. I was listening to Horton on Sirius NFL on the way home and he was saying as much. He plans on installing all new terminology. Very hard to do without mini camps and training camp.

A new QB will likely be brought in and must develop timing with the receivers and learn all the packages. One of our starting receivers may or may not be here. The other one needs a new deal or he is gone too.

Our draft plan seems to be defense, but what if you can't find a QB? You have no stability at OLine going into the off season. How much do these factors change the Cardinals draft day plans.

With the free agents at OLine, we could see a lack of continuity at a position it is crucial in. Toss in TE in there as well.

We all expect big changes this off season. A lockout almost guarantees a de ja vu season.

 

[Buckybird]

We all expect big changes this off season. A lockout almost guarantees a de ja vu season.

Yes it does Chris...& the exist of the teams best player How quick the mighty have fallen!!!

 

[desertdawg]

Yes it does Chris...& the exist of the teams best player How quick the mighty have fallen!!!

If we draft a QB in the first, let Horton work on the D, and do something about the O-line, we will be cool again in a couple years.

 

[az jam]

A lockout doesn't ruin the season. The date that a new CBA is signed is the real key. Its nice to have workouts and min-camps for players to get into shape and learn the new terminology and systems being implemented but the real key is having a CBA signed for the time training camp starts. The league can work out a timeframe for free agency etc. Old timers like myself remember when the NFL was not a full year of activities but really started when training camp opened. Also note that some "star" players don't see much action in preseason games. Finally, the real bottom line is not missing any regular season games.

 

[Buckybird]

If we draft a QB in the first, let Horton work on the D, and do something about the O-line, we will be cool again in a couple years.

But that QB has to give #11 the hope of potential greatness in 1 year Dawg. IMO thats a tough, tough chore. As far as getting better quickly...with all the FA's, the way ownership fails to keep most & holes on the roster I think it might take 3-5 years. Adding the cornerstone QB is the biggest piece of the puzzle no doubt.

 

[desertdawg]

But that QB has to give #11 the hope of potential greatness in 1 year Dawg. IMO thats a tough, tough chore. As far as getting better quickly...with all the FA's, the way ownership fails to keep most & holes on the roster I think it might take 3-5 years. Adding the cornerstone QB is the biggest piece of the puzzle no doubt.

Yamon, I hope Skelton is somewhere working on his game right now, anybody know what he is up to?

 

[O]

Matt was never the same player after his shoulder was broken in St. Louis.

Get over it, move on!

 

[O]

Awesome, I thought that last season would be the end of the Leinart sucks / Whis sucks arguements on the board.

Everyone is focusing on Catfish's last line and missing the real point.

This lockout hurts the Cardinals in so many ways. I was listening to Horton on Sirius NFL on the way home and he was saying as much. He plans on installing all new terminology. Very hard to do without mini camps and training camp.

A new QB will likely be brought in and must develop timing with the receivers and learn all the packages. One of our starting receivers may or may not be here. The other one needs a new deal or he is gone too.

Our draft plan seems to be defense, but what if you can't find a QB? You have no stability at OLine going into the off season. How much do these factors change the Cardinals draft day plans.

With the free agents at OLine, we could see a lack of continuity at a position it is crucial in. Toss in TE in there as well.

We all expect big changes this off season. A lockout almost guarantees a de ja vu season.

The good news is:
The Whiners are putting in a new everything.
The Lambs are putting in a new offense.
The Hags will be too.

 

[CardsFan88]

Matt Leinart would have lead us to a worse record. The thing that killed our QB position was our QB that manned the position, left.

Now having a replacement ready is on whiz, however we had Leinart. I would like someone to really tell us how we could afford ML (while the escalator hadn't hit yet, it was there), plus Warner's high salary, + someone else (besides a low round rookie, thus millions more). While Bulger or something could of been had, Bulger won't be our 2012 starting QB in almost any scenario. Long term QB prospects were dim last year. While last year might have been helped, future wise, we didn't lose much by not acting.

If you're going to spend high money on a 2nd replacement to your Starter, you better cut ties to one of the others, otherwise you have two medium to high priced starters behind your starter. This just doesn't happen. It was ML and his contract itself that screwed us. Very few could have done this differently in this respect.

Now if you want to blame whiz for not jettisoning and using that money elsewhere, then that's a completely different scenario. However we really don't know what sort of organizational influence there was regarding ML. Last year might of been the first year he had the ok to get rid of ML. Maybe that's completely wrong. Either way though, it's a bit hard to complain why we weren't paying 3 QB's, starter's money.

If money wasn't still an issue, then we wouldn't of seen the FA defections, and cutting Rolle. So if during an uncapped year we did this sort of cost cutting, there was no way Whiz would have been able to sell another QB being paid starter's money to sit. Though...the reason WHY money was an issue might not be *cheap*, but be forward thinking as to the *lockout*.

This is what happens. It was a perfect storm of circumstance, that while wasn't impossible to prevent, it was improbable. Who knew Kurt Warner really wanted to retire THAT bad? Sure it wasn't out of the blue, but generally speaking such talk doesn't amount to much, especially with someone playing so well. He screwed us, though it is just by circumstance.

So we happen to have been bit hard by this. It happens. It sucks, and we're not the only ones. If we miss a year, lots of players (even good ones last year) will have played their final down. That means come 2012, if it happens, the divisions are really anyone's game as no one will know what to expect. To do so now and complain about our QB position is too forward thinking given the many variables at play. Peyton Manning I'm sure would be a bad person to use, but given his age, two years from now who the hell knows what he'd be as a QB. Granted his head is there, but Peyton at 80 percent of what he was (while 99 percent mentally) might not be enough. While you can't pinpoint WHO goes down, the older the player is, the more likely it will happen. Also does anyone think the 'fatties' will benefit from no football next season? I won't say it definitely will effect Duece, but it will definitely effect overall the 'Duece' types around the NFL. Plus then you have the added affect of each team having basically twice the number of rookies, and that is a different impact.

So sad we may go down this road, but hey at least the sites showing NFL games (or 1/1000th of them) were shut down. Woo hoo. What great priorities. Now lose a billion times that....if full 1 year lockout.

With Ray Horton I was glad to see him express that he is getting the ideology and playbook out to them ASAP. Good to see the organization will be on top of this. AW, DD, DRC, CC, DW, etc will definitely be able to study such plays since they're under contract. This way our core won't be clueless when the lockout, if any, finally ends.

If there is a lockout, then Rod Graves might have been the smartest guy in the room *albeit at the possible expense of last season, which is well, past*. If the team spends when play resumes, then it WAS a good play given obvious smaller pockets than Jerry 'billion dollar boondoggle' Jones. However it may also be a wild chase on free agents and there are no guarantees that such money saved will make an impact given the increased amount of bidders.

Much is in flux, and obviously we'll have to wait and see, but overall I don't think we've played our hand too poorly given the realities of what is faced. I can't blame whiz for our state, I blame circumstances. That said, such circumstance, needs to finish before we appropriately give a grade of the whole era. We just don't know all the circumstances, and so any judgments on this era based on past eras metrics, is not only unwise, but unfair. We'll see how we fared on the backend of this. Not good for the impatient, but as fans, none of us have a choice. (and the average will = played it poorly, so if we break even, that's actually above average or good)

Hopefully there will be no lockout. College athletic directors are probably getting so many chubbies, they could do a Viagra commercial....one that ends up with a pan out from a helicopter showing all of them.

 

[desertdawg]

The good news is:
The Whiners are putting in a new everything.
The Lambs are putting in a new offense.
The Hags will be too.

 

[seesred]

I think that this board has over worked Matt Lienart. He was to blamew, the coach was to blame. the front office was to blame, Lady Gaga was to blame. Enough all ready. Right now we need a starting QB. How the lock out effects this will be what it is. Every team has the same problems.

GBR
40

 

[CardsFan88]

...and if the Seahawks resign Hasselbeck and there is a lockout....rofl. MH as the Seahawks starting QB in 2012 would probably be a good sign.

Did they re-sign Hasselbeck? I know PC said he wanted too, but didn't catch whether that was completed. (probably not.)

It would also be a bad play (most likely) by THEIR GM.

Would Steven Jackson be as explosive in 2012? probably, but he's starting to get up there.

Niners would be wise to focus on running game if there is a 2011 lockout. (given their stud young ol and that they're under contract through the potential lockout)...plus it'll be the easiest thing to exploit most likely (imo) after so much time off around the league. There might be some seriously bad run stuffing teams in 2012 if 2011 is a lockout.

For us though, AW is about the only one we have to worry about getting old amongst our core. Wells will be in his prime. But our OL which is hurting now, would be REALLY hurting in 2012 if a lockout happens. Would be interesting to watch what happens regarding our OL as the starters could be entirely changed from 2010 if we don't play in 2011. Hell it might be that now, but I mean 0 starters from 2010 might be on the team in 2012 (not benched) if we don't play in 2011. Keith? Brown? Lutui? Faneca? LS? Any and all of those guys could be gone.

Lots of ways this can go, but let's hope there's NFL football in 2011.

 

[Catfish]

For those of you hollering about Matt was a better QB than Anderson, or Anderson was worse, you are missing the whole point of this post. THis is not about which QB was better or better for this team. This is about a knee jerk reaction by a coach, who has admitted he was wrong, and has said he will fix it. I am just pointing out that while he has made a good first step in that journey, he may be helpless to do anything else about it for another year, and THAT is the real cost of this mess that is the current Cardinals.

We have not gotten stronger since Whiz has been here, we have steadily regressed in the personnel we have kept versus those that we have allowed to get away. How do you fix that in a season that doesn't happen? I don't find it humurous at all.

While his move to change the QB was not total devastation, the results of having done so at this exact point in time just might be. The fact IS, that every player on this team has lost a certain amount of confidence in a coach whom they believed would not do such a thing, and that now ALL of them have to be asking themselves if he will do something like it again and that in itself is hurtful. None of the other situations listed had the effect of causing a team to wait two years before it could begin correcting the problem, and this one might do that.

 

[O]

Yawn..........

 

[Duckjake]

Matt Leinart would have lead us to a worse record. The thing that killed our QB position was our QB that manned the position, left.

Irrelevant. The real point is that the Cards used the #10 pick in the draft on a QB and it didn't work out. That is a team killer.

Now we have nothing other than a very raw kid at QB instead of a first round 6 year veteran and the possibility of no OTAs or any other contact with the coaches for that raw kid, or any QB we draft, to improve. Not a good scenario.

As for the nonsense about the other teams in our division, I heard the same stuff last year and what happened? We finished dead azz last. We've lost 4 straight to the 49ers and they outscored us last year 65-13. Because we have no QB. No matter how you look at it we're in a world of hurt if the NFL doesn't get their labor problems fixed.

 

[DoTheDew]

Leinart had to go when he got beat out. You think having him in the locker room every week would have HELPED this team at that point?