the run by JJ

[Russ Smith]

This came up on the game thread, Shane felt he should have scored and not scoring shows he lacks speed. SWD agreed with Shane, Pariah and a couple of others disagreed, said the safety had the angle. I still haven't seen the play so I can't be the judge.

I saw Tatum Bell get caught on a very similar play yesterday by Brent Alexander who's pretty old and slow, but when you have the angle you catch the guy.

I think there were 2 runs all weekend longer than 60 yards, the Ronnie Brown 60+ yarder against KC(haven't seen it) and the Frank Gore 72 yarder yesterday against Washington. Gore's was impressive because of his bad knees but it came with 2 minutes left in a game Washington led 52-10, and if you saw the game, they had only 10 guys on the field, the 11th was running on when the ball was snapped and was completely out of position. So it's a little less impressive the game was all but over and while again it was great to see a kid with all the knee problems bust one, it was a bit easier under the circumstances it occured.

So the question is, for others who saw the game, should JJ have had a 93 yard TD run on the play and didn't because he's slow? Just curious what others think ESPN doesn't show that play in any of our highlights.

FYI that throw to Fitz was really a nice play by Josh, hit him perfectly in stride threaded between defenders, stepped up and made a clutch play.

 

[Pariah]

Here's what I saw: The defender didn't have much of an angle, but he had one. Arrington was pulling away from him and at the last moment shoved JJ out of bounds (from behind).

I think Arrington showed plenty of speed on the play.

PS--If you've been keeping score, I'm not an Arrington fan.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

My first reaction was disappointment that he didn't break it. It looked like he should have when I saw it live, but I'd have to see a replay to know for sure.

 

[football karma]

Man, some people just are never happy

Being at the game, it looked like the safety had the angle on him, but even then JJ almost got by him, with the safety having to resort to a two handed shove in the back to push JJ out of bounds.

As JJ turned the corner, there was a player who dove at his feet, and JJ had to take one or two quick steps to keep his balance -- that slowed him down just enough to make the difference.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not trying to start an argument of course just because ESPN didn't show the play I have no way of judging myself on the play. I see guys get caught all the time in the NFL, that's why 93 yard runs are so rare.

Just trying to get a feel, I didn't make a poll because I think you get better descriptions if you just ask what people saw instead of making it a poll.

 

[Redmark]

This came up on the game thread, Shane felt he should have scored and not scoring shows he lacks speed. SWD agreed with Shane, Pariah and a couple of others disagreed, said the safety had the angle. I still haven't seen the play so I can't be the judge.

Reggie Bush would have scored. JJ did well not to trip over his feet and get as far as he did; however the final numbers 5 for 30 don't sound so good when you realize 33 of it came on his first carry.

Russ aren't you able to find any sports bar in the Bay Area that has NFL Sunday Ticket?

 

[Russ Smith]

Man, some people just are never happy

.

While I appreciate the opinion, that's what I'm hoping does NOT happen on this thread, I didn't start it to bash Shane or SWD I'm just trying to find out what others thought.

The radio guys didn't say wow he should have scored on that but let's be honest seeing a run that long from any Cardinal RB had to be a shock to them.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

He was shoved out of bounds from behind by Lamont Thompson. I don't know how fast he is now.....but when he played at Washington State he was supposed to be a burner.

I'm not as dissappointed that he didn't score on that play, as I am that he rushed 4 more times for -2 yards. Watching the replay, that run was on a broken play though, it was designed inside all the way and the Titans sold out on it.

 

[spanky1]

Russ,

No way he gets a TD on that play.......he didn't have much room to get any more yardage than he did. JMHO.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was shoved out of bounds from behind by Lamont Thompson. I don't know how fast he is now.....but when he played at Washington State he was supposed to be a burner.

I'm not as dissappointed that he didn't score on that play, as I am that he rushed 4 more times for -2 yards. Watching the replay, that run was on a broken play though, it was designed inside all the way and the Titans sold out on it.

5 times, he had a 32 yard run, a 4 yard run, and 4 for negative yardage. I think Shipp had 6 runs for negative yardage. On radio they pointed out at one point when Shipp gained 1 yard that it finally made more runs for positive yardage than negative yardage, and then Shipp lost yards on his next carry.

Wolfley made it clear he thinks the problem is the OL, but he is a former RB.

 

[Grand Canon]

Angle

The safety did have a decent angle- but based on his 4.4 speed should have been able to beat that angle - I think he was so shocked that he broke free he didnt relax and just run- too tense- which is what I see from him every time. Seems to slip a lot on his cuts- or just gets in the fetal position to aviod a hit- I said no way he gets 600 yrds this year who was it that bet me????

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Russ,

JJ showed a nice burst on the 32 yard play. No way Shipp gets more than 10 yards on that play.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Arrington hit the hole and hit it fast. The defensive back had just enough of an angle to push him out from behind. Clearly Arrington needs holes to run through. The one time he got a hole he turned it into a big play.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Russ,

I dont think there are a whole lot of starting RB's in the league who could of broke that. But not every starting RB has been touted as this small kid that has blazing speed.

Given the rumors of his speed, I thought he should have broke it. S. Jackson wouldnt have. Dunn would have etc..

 

[Russ Smith]

So here's another question that goes with the RB thread about # of carries.
After the 32 yard run, JJ came out of the game. Was that because he was tired, shaken up, or did they just put Shipp in the game for some unknown reason?

It seemed odd to me and even Pasch said something like wow longest run of the year by a Card RB and he immediately comes out.

Goes back to Duckjake's comment that Cards RB's don't get enough reps to get in a flow in games.

 

[GreenCard]

I don't know what happened but it looked to me that the guy who pushed JJ had the speed to fly around JJ,in fact,if he had,nt pushed him out of the way he would have ran up JJ back.That was what my memory recorded in that split second.

 

[Pariah]

I don't know what happened but it looked to me that the guy who pushed JJ had the speed to fly around JJ,in fact,if he had,nt pushed him out of the way he would have ran up JJ back.That was what my memory recorded in that split second.

I just watched it again. That's not the case; JJ was about to be out of reach for him.

 

[GreenCard]

Man,that's good news.I was thinking,who was that masked man.

 

[D-Dogg]

I was in the stadium, but not in the stands for that play...didn't even get to see it on the jumbotron.

However, let it be known that JJ has not really been touted as a "speed" guy or a burner other than having a good 40 time at the combine. He's a big play guy. There's a difference in big play ability and speed guys. He's not track star fast, but he makes small, quick moves in tight spaces that enable him to get free. He's very fast in short bursts which *should* get him into the secondary, but even in his highlights its obvious that he burns out on long runs and can get caught from behind. The 40 speed is one thing, but 40 yards is not 80 yards and its not done in full pads on gameday.

Yeah he's fast and "speedy" but it isn't his speed that makes him good...he isn't a guy that outruns the D...that was my ONLY complaint about JJ from college. He's got good open field vision and can pop big gainers--that's why he's here and why he should get more carries than 5 a game.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was in the stadium, but not in the stands for that play...didn't even get to see it on the jumbotron.

However, let it be known that JJ has not really been touted as a "speed" guy or a burner other than having a good 40 time at the combine. He's a big play guy. There's a difference in big play ability and speed guys. He's not track star fast, but he makes small, quick moves in tight spaces that enable him to get free. He's very fast in short bursts which *should* get him into the secondary, but even in his highlights its obvious that he burns out on long runs and can get caught from behind. The 40 speed is one thing, but 40 yards is not 80 yards and its not done in full pads on gameday.

I made a similar comment yesterday.

I think a lot of people felt JJ was the next guy in line after Robert Smith and Michael Bennett in the Dennis Green drafts sprinters to play RB succession. Both those guys were legit sprinters, Smith won the state title in HS and ran on a 400 relay team at Ohio State that had the fastest time in the world one year(not a world record). Bennett has run a 10 second 100 meters, he's Olympic sprinter fast.

JJ ran a 40 that Brandt said was 4.40 and 4.46 but officially was listed at 4.42 at the combine, Brown and Cadillac were both timed in 4.43 so saying he was the fastest RB take into account how close the 3 times were. JJ is nowhere near as fast as Smith or Bennett in their primes.

 

[earthsci]

I said no way he gets 600 yrds this year who was it that bet me????

Me

 

[Russ Smith]

Me

Only 529 yards to go!

It wouldn't shock me if he got to 600 but obviously he has to get the playing time and the OL has to do better.

But knowing the coaches spent the bye week working on the run game and we had all those negative runs yesterday kind of convinced me the coaches aren't going to magically fix the OL and rungame this year.

 

[Shane]

I have seen many plays in the NFL where people have outrun the DBs with much better angles than that one.

Considering that JJ is supposed to have blazing speed and be the homerun threat IM O he should not have been caught from behind which he was. Unlike Pariah I completely disagree after watching on tivo like 10 times. The DB was gaining ground to the point where he needed to to push him out. He certainly wasnt losing any ground.

 

[Pariah]

The DB was gaining ground to the point where he needed to to push him out.

If he was gaining ground why whould he push him out? Why not tackle him and tomahawk the ball?

 

[CaptTurbo]

If he was gaining ground why whould he push him out? Why not tackle him and tomahawk the ball?

To stop him quicker without having to set up a total catch up and tomahawk that would allow a runner to get an additional 5-10 yards.

Even if its fumbled odds are it goes right out of bounds.