The small talk is wearing thin

[SirStefan32]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1027sunsnb1027.html

The small talk is wearing thin

Norm Frauenheim
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 27, 2003 12:00 AM


Suns coach Frank Johnson is sick of small talk.

Barring a deal for the ever-elusive big man, Johnson can't change the dimensions of his team.

But he can quit talking about it in a way that might sow some gigantic self-doubt.

"I certainly have to take the blame for kind of giving them an out with talk that we don't have any size or we're not physical," Johnson said Saturday following a practice after the Suns wrapped up their preseason schedule at 2-6 with a loss to Portland. "That becomes an excuse for all of us, and it starts with me."

By Saturday, Johnson decided he had heard enough.

"I came in here this morning and told them: 'It stops now,' " said Johnson, whose Suns open the season Tuesday night at San Antonio against the NBA's defending champs. "If you play hard and compete, that'll take care of things."


Talking trade


As the Suns quit talking small, there was ongoing speculation that they were continuing to talk about getting bigger.

The latest possibility has playmaker Brevin Knight headed to Boston for 6-foot-11, 240-pound Tony Battie, a six-year veteran who averaged 7.3 points, 6.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks last season.

Phoenix had been seen as just a way station for Knight when the Suns acquired him, Robert Archibald and Cezary Trybanski on Sept. 30 from Memphis for Bo Outlaw and Jake Tsakalidis.

"But Brevin has got to play as though he might still be here," Johnson said.


Briefs


Leandro Barbosa is the subject of keen media interest in his native country, Brazil. Barbosa, a 6-foot-3 rookie from Sao Paolo, is scheduled Wednesday for a conference call with reporters from Brazil.


• Injury update: Barbosa was back at practice after missing two days with a bruised hip.

Veteran forward Tom Gugliotta suffered a painful bruise to his upper right arm Sunday in a collision. He had to have the arm wrapped in ice, but he said he thought that the injury was not serious.



I hope this trade really goes through. Voskhul and Battie would be a very nice Center tag team.

 

[Chaplin]

So now Frank is complaining about the complaining? Well, if he showed us that Trybanski isn't going to be a total loss, maybe we'll deal with it better.

 

[Krangodnzr]

MAKE THE TRADE!!!!!!

I would love for us to acquire Battie. Voskuhl-Battie, or Battie-Voskuhl, would be a nice center rotation. Throw in Trybanski occasionally, and size wouldn't be that much of a problem.

Hopefully this actually goes through, but we all are aware of how likely this is of happening since the media is talking about it.

 

[F-Dog]

I'm fine with Battie if he's better than they can do in the FA market next year. They can probably do better, though, which means no Battie--and I'm fine with that, too.



Right now, I think the key to this year is going to be Zarko. Bo was the guy who made small ball work last year, and the Suns don't seem to have anybody besides Zarko to make small ball work this year.

Jake can only play so many minutes (although he's another key), and Scott Williams shouldn't be out there more than 10 min/game.

Since it looks like the Suns will be playing a lot of minutes with two PFs and no center, it's important that they be good PFs....

 

[Joe Mama]

Scott Williams is healthy I guarantee he'll play more than 10 minutes per game. He's a good defender and rebounder with some size.

Joe Mama

 

[F-Dog]

How old is Williams again? 37?

I like the Suns' chances in the playoffs better if they're the 8th seed and Williams has played 10 mpg, than if they're the 6th seed and Williams has played 20 mpg. I don't think there's that much gas left in his tank.


If you guarantee it, though, I don't have any reason to doubt you.

 

[elindholm]

"I came in here this morning and told them: 'It stops now,' " said Johnson, whose Suns open the season Tuesday night at San Antonio against the NBA's defending champs. "If you play hard and compete, that'll take care of things."

No it won't. A lineup of three guards, Marion, and Stoudemire can play hard and compete all they want, but it will still be small ball. They'll still have a hard time defending the opposing team's big men, and they'll still have a hard time getting defensive rebounds. Defense and rebounding are not "all about effort." Size matters too.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by F-Dog
I'm fine with Battie if he's better than they can do in the FA market next year. They can probably do better,

I highly doubt that.

Players who can play C and will be FA's next offseason:

Foyle, Okur, Magloire (restricted), Clark, Ostertag, K.Thomas (can opt out), E.Thomas (restricted, Swift (restricted)

We can forget Magloire and Swift (whose mid-level offer NOH and MEM would definitely match) and Ostertag and E.Thomas who wouldn't be significant (if at all) improvements.

There would be 4 players who at least 20 NBA teams would be interested in and I don't see why would it be likely that Suns could get one of them.

 

[SirStefan32]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[F-Dog]

I would take out Okur (Pistons would definitely match) but add Dale Davis and, who knows, maybe Divac.

Plus, there are guys who might be worth having by the end of this season (Traylor, perhaps), other centers making $5m (like Jahidi White), the draft, etc.


The main thing is that the Suns shouldn't commit themselves to Battie if he's not going to make them a championship contender in 2004 or 2005. Better to hold their money and assets and wait for the right player to come along, IMO.

 

[sunsfn]

----------------------------------------------------------------
The latest possibility has playmaker Brevin Knight headed to Boston for 6-foot-11, 240-pound Tony Battie, a six-year veteran who averaged 7.3 points, 6.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks last season.
------------------------------------------------------
The suns may make this trade, but they wanted to get rid of Brevin Knights salary to someone without taking anyone in return.
(Utah) Or, very little in return to save salary.
So, not sure they really are interested in this trade.

I would not mind it though, I think Battie would help the suns.

 

[Joe Mama]

You guys are going to think I'm crazy, but I think Greg Ostertag could help the Phoenix Suns. I didn't think they should pay him anything over $2 million per season of course. I definitely think he's an improvement over Jake Tsuckalotis.

He is one guy that would probably be helped a bunch by a change of scenery.

Joe Mama

 

[Dr. Dumas]

I'm not too sure if Greg Ostertag could help the Suns out. For streches he seemed to dissappear or not look like he was motivated in any wya. If Jerry Sloan couldn't motivate the big guy, I'm not sure FJ can. But who knows, maybe he could. It's not like th Suns need someone to score in bunched down low.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by F-Dog
I would take out Okur (Pistons would definitely match)

Pistons can't match if the offer is higher than the mid-level ala Gilbert Arenas.

but add Dale Davis and,

Yes, I forgot Davis.

Plus, there are guys who might be worth having by the end of this season (Traylor, perhaps), other centers making $5m (like Jahidi White),

Traylor and White?
Jake Voskuhl is better than them.

The main thing is that the Suns shouldn't commit themselves to Battie if he's not going to make them a championship contender in 2004 or 2005. Better to hold their money and assets and wait for the right player to come along, IMO.

It seems to be pretty unlikely that Suns will sign a good FA C which leads to conclusion that you will have either to draft or to acquire one via trade.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Pistons can't match if the offer is higher than the mid-level ala Gilbert Arenas.

Certainly the Phoenix Suns are not going to be in any better position than the Pistons will be to offer Okur or anyone else more than the mid-level exception.

I thought the Pistons were attempting to shed salary in order to have enough room to re-sign Okur next year.

Originally posted by Dr. Dumas
I'm not too sure if Greg Ostertag could help the Suns out. For streches he seemed to dissappear or not look like he was motivated in any wya. If Jerry Sloan couldn't motivate the big guy, I'm not sure FJ can. But who knows, maybe he could. It's not like th Suns need someone to score in bunched down low.

I think Jerry Sloan is one of the best X's and O's coaches in the NBA. He's also a jerk. It doesn't seem like he motivates as much as he yells. It is why I think a change of scenery could do Ostertag some good. He would be a big body to take up space, grab some rebounds, and block a few shots.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I don't think there's any way Ostertag would work in Phoenix. You know how Suns coaches are. They'd insist on trying to make Ostertag the focal point of the offense while he was on the floor, and when that didn't work, they'd use that as justification to pull him. It's the same thing they always do -- creating excuses not to have a center on the floor by demonstrating that he isn't "skilled" according to their definition.

Also, the vastly inconsistent minutes Ostertag would receive would be bad for his (already shaky) confidence.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
I don't think there's any way Ostertag would work in Phoenix. You know how Suns coaches are. They'd insist on trying to make Ostertag the focal point of the offense while he was on the floor, and when that didn't work, they'd use that as justification to pull him. It's the same thing they always do -- creating excuses not to have a center on the floor by demonstrating that he isn't "skilled" according to their definition.

Also, the vastly inconsistent minutes Ostertag would receive would be bad for his (already shaky) confidence.

Unfortunately you are probably right. I do think he would be a good addition to the center by committee here in Phoenix though. He would give them the size they traded away in Big Jake, but he's a better player. He doesn't have great hands. However, they are certainly better than Jake's mitts of stone.

Joe Mama

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Could someone please shed some light as to why Ostertag got brought up?

Is he on the trading block?

How would Phoenix go about getting him?

Has there been any rumors as far as this goes?

 

[F-Dog]

I guess he was brought up because he's nearly the same player as Tsakalidis. (Ostertag is better right now but Tsakalidis might still be improving.)

Ostertag will be a free agent next year, and I doubt he'll re-sign with Utah again. He'll probably be available with the MLE or less, which means the Suns can afford him.

No rumors either way--Ostertag needs a team and the Suns need a center, that's all.



I don't think that people who remember Luc Longley will want Ostertag, but if the Suns are looking for a replacement for Tsakalidis and nothing more, he'll do.

I'd take Ostertag on a short contract over an undersized Eastern Conference center like Kurt Thomas or Battie. I think that 'Tag matches up better against Shaq and Yao than those guys do...

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog


I'd take Ostertag on a short contract over an undersized Eastern Conference center like Kurt Thomas or Battie. I think that 'Tag matches up better against Shaq and Yao than those guys do...

But here's the catch--we'd need a big center like that ONLY for Shaq and Yao--we wouldn't need that center, really, for any other team. So the question is, is it worth it?

Personally, I like Battie and to a lesser extent, Thomas. We had a big center and Shaq still got his points. We've talked about this for years. How do you beat the Lakers? Not by stopping Shaq, but by stopping the other guys--and for all intents and purposes, all our wins in the past few years have been exactly that.

 

[capologist]

If the deal is Knight for Battie straight up, I like it from a basketball perspective. It might be unwise from a financial perspective. We’d be committed to Battie for $14.2 million over the next three seasons. That might hamstring our ability to acquire a bigger, better center later on. A 6’11” 240 lb. center doesn’t seem to be the ultimate solution to the small ball problem.

 

[slinslin]

Draft David Harrison next offseason that should be a good center for us and projected where we should pick.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
But here's the catch--we'd need a big center like that ONLY for Shaq and Yao--we wouldn't need that center, really, for any other team. So the question is, is it worth it?

Personally, I like Battie and to a lesser extent, Thomas. We had a big center and Shaq still got his points. We've talked about this for years. How do you beat the Lakers? Not by stopping Shaq, but by stopping the other guys--and for all intents and purposes, all our wins in the past few years have been exactly that.

I do agree with you regarding getting a big center just to match up with Shaquille O'Neal or Yao Ming. I just figured if the Phoenix Suns could get Ostertag for $2 million per season (I'm talking next summer) that's a lot less than Battie at $4 million per season.

Ostertag averaged virtually the same numbers as Battie last season. Except he did it playing a Western Conference schedule.

If I had the choice between Ostertag and Battie I would take Ostertag.

Joe Mama

 

[SweetD]

Ostertag just reminds me too much of Duddly and I realy don't want him coming here. I like Battie but I don't like his contract. Lets see if Zarko can hang if not we look to make a mid season trade for Googs or Knight for a solid big man.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by slinslin
Draft David Harrison next offseason that should be a good center for us and projected where we should pick.

I like Paul Davis from Michigan St.

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Strengths: A very fundamentally sound big man who is equally adept in the post or on the perimeter. Has a very nice back to the basket game...very crafty. Paul can also face up and shoot ... a good jumper. He uses good positioning to grab a nice share of rebounds. A hard worker, Paul hustles down the floor and never takes a play off. Very coachable, a player who knows his role on the team. With time should turn into a very nice post player.

Weaknesses: Paul is not a freak of an athlete. For someone so tall he is not a good shot blocker. He Is also prone to turning the ball over...Must become a better passer, especially out of the post….should also bulk up if he wishes to play the post at the next level. Defense needs improvement...has to stop picking up useless fouls.

Notes: Widely regarded as a top 10 prospect out of a high school...Quoting a fellow scout, "He's been watching too much European Basketball"