The Starting 5

[BirdGangThing]

PG/SG/SF Beakerant

PF/C Diop/Eubanks

 

[JCSunsfan]

My depth chart.

Starters: Beal, Booker, KD, Ayton, and um, not sure, probably KBD, but maybe Yuta.

Key players off the bench: KBD or Yuta, Gordon, Eubanks, Goodwin, Okogie

That is our 10 man every day rotation.

Special situation players/end of game.: Camara, Bol, Lee, Lee, Ish.

I think there will be a good chance Ish is gone before the season. There is just not much more to add here unless they can improve on the key players off the bench bunch. If we trade Ayton, then everything is up in the air again.

 

[Carolinacacti]

The problem now is minutes. We have to get guys minutes to keep them engaged over the course of a season. We have a lot of guys who came here to work on their next contracts. That's a lot of pressure from them on the coaching staff to be seen. I think Vogel will spread out minutes a lot. We may see different substitution patterns during the year that may seem crazy.

Some of these players expect injuries to happen. I know this board does.

 

[95pro]

My depth chart.

Starters: Beal, Booker, KD, Ayton, and um, not sure, probably KBD, but maybe Yuta.

Key players off the bench: KBD or Yuta, Gordon, Eubanks, Goodwin, Okogie

That is our 10 man every day rotation.

Special situation players/end of game.: Camara, Bol, Lee, Lee, Ish.

I think there will be a good chance Ish is gone before the season. There is just not much more to add here unless they can improve on the key players off the bench bunch. If we trade Ayton, then everything is up in the air again.

its KBD as a starter.

 

[overseascardfan]

The Suns Valley Podcast guys floating idea of using TPE to bring Oubre back in a S&T with CHA. That would be one hell of a starting 5 (Ayton, Durant, Oubre, Booker, Beal).

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The Suns Valley Podcast guys floating idea of using TPE to bring Oubre back in a S&T with CHA. That would be one hell of a starting 5 (Ayton, Durant, Oubre, Booker, Beal).

Oubre makes no sense with the big 3 - the only world where he makes sense is in a second unit.

 

[Proximo]

The Suns Valley Podcast guys floating idea of using TPE to bring Oubre back in a S&T with CHA. That would be one hell of a starting 5 (Ayton, Durant, Oubre, Booker, Beal).

After thinking about this, I am not sure that is a good idea.

The entire reason he is still a free agent is he is a selfish player. If Charlotte see's no reason to bring him back, that should tell you how damaging he may be to team chemistry because if any team should be willing to overlook a selfish player it's them. Let's not forget GS dumped him quick too.

 

[Chaplin]

After thinking about this, I am not sure that is a good idea.

The entire reason he is still a free agent is he is a selfish player. If Charlotte see's no reason to bring him back, that should tell you how damaging he may be to team chemistry because if any team should be willing to overlook a selfish player it's them. Let's not forget GS dumped him quick too.

That's ironic because Kelly was a key piece of our major culture shift a few years ago.

 

[overseascardfan]

Oubre makes no sense with the big 3 - the only world where he makes sense is in a second unit.

After thinking about this, I am not sure that is a good idea.

The entire reason he is still a free agent is he is a selfish player. If Charlotte see's no reason to bring him back, that should tell you how damaging he may be to team chemistry because if any team should be willing to overlook a selfish player it's them. Let's not forget GS dumped him quick too.

I guess the importance of starting means nothing, its who finishes the games. Oubre maybe "selfish" but he was the lone bright spot on CHA team without Ball and can be credited with starting the culture change here in PHX.

I don't think Oubre is coming back to PHX but the idea is intriguing.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I guess the importance of starting means nothing, its who finishes the games. Oubre maybe "selfish" but he was the lone bright spot on CHA team without Ball and can be credited with starting the culture change here in PHX.

I don't think Oubre is coming back to PHX but the idea is intriguing.

Yeah, if he were added to the roster I doubt it would be to start. You're looking for 3 and D - he ain't it.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's ironic because Kelly was a key piece of our major culture shift a few years ago.

He brought swagger and excitement but the team also played better when he was out.

8-0 in the bubble happened because Oubre wasn’t there.

He’s extremely selfish on offense and a brain dead defender who loses track of his man constantly.

I don’t see any chance or reason to sign him.

 

[Yuma]

its KBD as a starter.

I think that's yet to be seen. Vogel didn't help by saying they were looking at the PG or 3/4 position for the fifth spot. So obviously it's not going to be two centers. LOL! Thanks for clearing that up Frank!

 

[Phrazbit]

When Oubre was on the court the Hornets had shot an effective FG% of 50.3% and allowed an effective FG% of 55.6%

When Oubre was off the court the Hornets had shot an effective FG% of 52.5% and allowed an effective FG% of 53.7%

That is a 4% net swing in the wrong direction.

His 20 points per game might jump off the page but Oubre is a guy who is quietly killing is own team out there on both ends of the court. This isn't a one year thing either, his teams have played worse with him on the court vs off of it throughout his career.

The numbers in Golden State are staggering, he was a one man tank job for them.

 

[Yuma]

When Oubre was on the court the Hornets had shot an effective FG% of 50.3% and allowed an effective FG% of 55.6%

When Oubre was off the court the Hornets had shot an effective FG% of 52.5% and allowed an effective FG% of 53.7%

That is a 4% net swing in the wrong direction.

His 20 points per game might jump off the page but Oubre is a guy who is quietly killing is own team out there on both ends of the court. This isn't a one year thing either, his teams have played worse with him on the court vs off of it throughout his career.

The numbers in Golden State are staggering, he was a one man tank job for them.

GS was a killer. IDK if he mentally wasn't in it, or trying way too hard. His game was WAY off, even for him. It's kinda like, we got the best out of Oubre when he was a Sun. Same with McGee.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns Valley Podcast guys floating idea of using TPE to bring Oubre back in a S&T with CHA. That would be one hell of a starting 5 (Ayton, Durant, Oubre, Booker, Beal).

I do not see Oubre fitting as well with this starting 5 as Yuta or KBD. Oubre is a bit of a ball stopper and that is the last thing you need as a fifth starter with this group. You need a three and D guy. Someone who plays tenacious D (not the band) and will hit the open three.

 

[Proximo]

That's ironic because Kelly was a key piece of our major culture shift a few years ago.

No he wasn't. They shipped him out too because they wanted to give Cam and Mikal more time, which should tell you the Suns didn't like his attitude either.

Just because the fans liked him, it was obvious he was a black hole on offense, and not good for team play, and that has continued wherever he has played.

You really think it is coincidence the only two significant free agents are Oubre and Christian Wood? They are both "ME" guys.

 

[Proximo]

I do not see Oubre fitting as well with this starting 5 as Yuta or KBD. Oubre is a bit of a ball stopper and that is the last thing you need as a fifth starter with this group. You need a three and D guy. Someone who plays tenacious D (not the band) and will hit the open three.

Exactly, we need a 5th starter who knows the focus of the offense is the big 3 and they are only to take the shot if they are wide open or the clock is running down.

 

[Germz249]

That's ironic because Kelly was a key piece of our major culture shift a few years ago.

He did bring that swag to the team with the Valley Boyz. If I remember correctly didn’t he sit out during the bubble cause of an injury he could have played through? I think thats when the organization felt they could move on from him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He did bring that swag to the team with the Valley Boyz. If I remember correctly didn’t he sit out during the bubble cause of an injury he could have played through? I think thats when the organization felt they could move on from him.

I didn't realize, or have forgotten, that he could have played through it. He wasn't great, we all knew that, but he was exciting and took a little defensive pressure off of Devin. He didn't really help us win but I thought we had another year before we'd be ready to win anyway so I wanted to keep him. Now, it makes no sense to add a veteran that isn't about winning so I'd pass even if he came cheap.

 

[Chaplin]

No he wasn't. They shipped him out too because they wanted to give Cam and Mikal more time, which should tell you the Suns didn't like his attitude either.

Just because the fans liked him, it was obvious he was a black hole on offense, and not good for team play, and that has continued wherever he has played.

You really think it is coincidence the only two significant free agents are Oubre and Christian Wood? They are both "ME" guys.

Incorrect. I’m not sure why you’re arguing this point.

 

[clyde2tw]

I don't know Oubre's game well as I only returned to Suns fan base two years ago. But he seems to be an athletic lock-down defender, with bad offensive efficiency which comes from being one of the few main off. weapons a bad Hornets/Suns team had to rely on. So, on the current Suns, all he needs on offense is to utilize the open space created by our big-3s, in other words, a taller and more experienced Okogie. If his defense is comparable to Okogie's, than 6.5m/y is a bargain, provided he'd be willing to submerge into the winning culture this time.
As the 5th starter, Vogel can rely on Okogie, who'd cover the opponents' best 1-3 guys, as well as bring the ball up court, to save energy on Book-Beal. Wata and KBD can't. Their advantage over Okogie is scoring, which is not a high need with all 4 core starters on court. Oubre may replace Okogie to cover the bigger superstars like Butler, Kawhi, Doncic.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't know Oubre's game well as I only returned to Suns fan base two years ago. But he seems to be an athletic lock-down defender, with bad offensive efficiency which comes from being one of the few main off. weapons a bad Hornets/Suns team had to rely on. So, on the current Suns, all he needs on offense is to utilize the open space created by our big-3s, in other words, a taller and more experienced Okogie. If his defense is comparable to Okogie's, than 6.5m/y is a bargain, provided he'd be willing to submerge into the winning culture this time.
As the 5th starter, Vogel can rely on Okogie, who'd cover the opponents' best 1-3 guys, as well as bring the ball up court, to save energy on Book-Beal. Wata and KBD can't. Their advantage over Okogie is scoring, which is not a high need with all 4 core starters on court. Oubre may replace Okogie to cover the bigger superstars like Butler, Kawhi, Doncic.

I like Oubre but he's not a lockdown defender. He's ok defensively simply because he plays with a lot energy but he gambles for steals and plays the passing lanes too often. He'll get a defensive highlight every game but he'll allow 2-3 offensive highlights by the other team by those gambles coming up short. He's not on Okogie's level as a defender.

Offensively he'd be a good spark plug off the bench but he has to buy in and be more willing to move the ball. He proved he wasn't a good fit on Golden State as a replacement for Klay a few years ago and shot abysmally from outside for a long stretch. Teams would start asking him to shoot, like Westbrook, because he would not turn down the opportunity.

He's like a JR Smith, only a worse shooter. He has all the talent in the world but fails to properly channel it and help the team he's on. I'd probably pass at this point given he'd want a larger contract, even $6.8 million a year or whatever the trade exception we have is. For the minimum, great. But not more than that.

 

[Germz249]

I have no idea who the fifth stater will be. We have so many options. If I have to make a choice I would hope its Yuta Watanabe. With the big 3 out there he could capitalize on those corner 3s. He hustles, decent on defense and seems like he would do some of the dirty work.

 

[Phrazbit]

Oubre is a net negative. Wouldn't take him for the minimum. He is a ball hog who is really inefficient on offense and while he has the skill set to be a good defender he doesn't use it, he just gambles for high lights and gets cooked left and right. He grades out as a worse defender than anyone on the roster, that includes Beal and Gordon and even Yuta.

He is in that class of player who looks good at first glance, they produce some great highlights but their mindset just isn't one that makes for winning 5 on 5 basketball.

He has talent and he is really athletic but, as hoop head, notes, he is like JR Smith, only much worse defensively, or like Gerald Green... only worse on offense.

The Suns value signings have largely indicated that they are using a lot of advanced stats and metrics in their decision making and I suspect that any team that uses those metrics would not take Oubre for free.

I think he ends up in Dallas this year but I think China is only a year or 2 away.

 

[Sunburn]

Oubre's energy was fun during his tenure here. I don't believe he is any sort of culture/lockerroom concern.

He was a 20ppg scorer last season. If you look at just about any impact metric, he is the definition of an empty stats player.

I'd roster him over Ish based on talent. There's a number of ways he could potentially help us if he buys in on the defensive end. If he does not, I'm confident Vogel would have zero hesitation perma-benching him.