The Suns are a prime example of mismanagement!

[BeeBeard]

Whoa dude... Don't take my comments out of complete context... As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Suns "had" to do something. They "had" to make a move. Before Shaq's arrival, this team was headed for another 60 win season, and a grueling, gut-wrenching loss in the playoffs...
With Shaq, they are now heading toward a mid-50 win season and an even earlier exit from the playoffs...
I am not at all putting the entire blame on Shaq... He is what he is... And what he is was simply NOT what was right for this team...

What are the winning lotto numbers tomorrow? Who will be the next President of the United States? And more importantly, where are my car keys??

I'm just hoping against hope that I can tap into whatever fortune telling device or person you must have access to that would allow you to accurately predict how far the Suns will go in the playoffs. I guess I can't ask you to have faith in this team, only to not make these sorts of broad proclamations so matter-of-factly, as though any of us can possibly know what will happen come April.



edit:

I am not at all putting the entire blame on Shaq... He is what he is... And what he is was simply NOT what was right for this team...

Oh goodness, you've trailed off there. Could that mean that we won't hear from you again until Shaq has another bad game? Because whenever he has good games, the "Shaq Trade No Good!" people are nowhere to be found. By all means, let us be privy to your insight and wisdom about the status of the trade after just six (6) games with O'Neal.

 

[az240zz]

just wait till the playoffs..
see what Shaq can really do.

They have to make the playoffs first!!

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh goodness, you've trailed off there. Could that mean that we won't hear from you again until Shaq has another bad game? Because whenever he has good games, the "Shaq Trade No Good!" people are nowhere to be found. By all means, let us be privy to your insight and wisdom about the status of the trade after just six (6) games with O'Neal.

Anybody who says Shaq is the problem has not been watching the games. It's not what Shaq isn't doing that is the problem. It's what we lost by trading Marion and the fact that D'Antoni can't figure out the half court game that is the problem.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am not at all putting the entire blame on Shaq... He is what he is... And what he is was simply NOT what was right for this team...

As much as I hate to and as much as I am not used to it, I gotta disagree with you 82. Shaq is not the problem. Shaq is doing what he is supposed to do. We are not getting out- rebounded anymore. Amare is a BEAST now that he can play power forward- everything Shaq is supposed to do, he is doing.

Problem is that Bell, Barbosa and Nash are just not playing the way they usually do. Nash is making too many mistakes, Barbosa and Bell are not shooting well and they couldn't guard a chair.

Those three guys have to figure it out and start playing the way they are supposed to.

Only thing about Shaq I hate is that he is spending a lot of time at the 3 point line. He serves NO purpose there, and I am not sure if he is doing it on his own or if coach is telling him to.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Guess I didn't state this clearly enough...

Shaq himself is not "THE" problem. I thought I made that clear when I said that this team had issues prior to Shaq's entrance...
"The" problem - which is the same problem that has plagued this team for the past 4-5 years, is that the team, and more importantly the coach, can not play defense, and not run a half-court defense and can't defend in the half court...
Shaq, at this stage in his career has zero to offer on offense. And can not be effective on defense when the team allows for and in fact, pushes the fast-paced, run & gun style...
Shaq is NOT "THE" problem by any stretch... But, that certainly does not mean that he is right for this team. Without a true point guard who can manage the game in a true, half-court and slower fashion, this version of Shaq will simply not be an effective & consistent contributor... Hence, while I can't offer the next winning Lotto numbers, I feel pretty sure this team will see its earliest exit from the playoffs in the last several seasons...

 

[Griffin]

I feel pretty sure this team will see its earliest exit from the playoffs in the last several seasons...

But that was already a distinct possibility even before the trade simply because the West is that much better this year and there will be no easy match-ups, not even in the first round.

 

[BillsCarnage]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Suns "had" to do something. They "had" to make a move. Before Shaq's arrival, this team was headed for another 60 win season, and a grueling, gut-wrenching loss in the playoffs...
With Shaq, they are now heading toward a mid-50 win season and an even earlier exit from the playoffs...
I am not at all putting the entire blame on Shaq... He is what he is... And what he is was simply NOT what was right for this team...

Yes, they did have to do something, however the title of this tread is mismanagement and unloading KT and a #1 pick in the summer is right up there with the JoJo fiasco as one of the top baffoon moves in the Sarver era.

It just shows how clueless he is about basketball economics/management and how much of a rookie Kerr is.

KT was an expiring contract and could have been easily moved at the trade deadline with more value in return. Between KT's expiring contract and Marion only having one year left could you imagine the package the Suns could have put together and probably still been at the same salary they are now.

Point is, it was a knee jerk reaction when the salaries aren't determined until the end of the season. Mismanagement has scarred this team since Sarver took over. That's not meant to be a knock on Sarver, but there's been so much turmoil since he took over that it's scary.

 

[MiamiHeat]

its certainly not looking good but there is still room to wiggle before you can call it a bust

 

[dodie53]

was there a possiblity that the Suns can trade for Shaq by not giving up Amare, Nash, and Marion?

 

[dodie53]

@82cardsgrad

who the hell is that on your avatar?

 

[newfan101]

Yes, they did have to do something, however the title of this tread is mismanagement and unloading KT and a #1 pick in the summer is right up there with the JoJo fiasco as one of the top baffoon moves in the Sarver era.

It just shows how clueless he is about basketball economics/management and how much of a rookie Kerr is.

KT was an expiring contract and could have been easily moved at the trade deadline with more value in return. Between KT's expiring contract and Marion only having one year left could you imagine the package the Suns could have put together and probably still been at the same salary they are now.

Point is, it was a knee jerk reaction when the salaries aren't determined until the end of the season. Mismanagement has scarred this team since Sarver took over.

I agree 100%. The Suns have given away or sold FIVE firsts since Sarver took over, all for cash and tax savings. JC gave away 2 more for tax savings (Googs trade) in preparation of the Sarver sale. That's SEVEN 1st round picks since 2004 that were given away for NOTHING. Add that to the JJ fiasco, the Marcus Banks and Diaw bad signings, the failure to re-sign contributing players like Tim Thomas, the giving away of valuable players like Jones and KT, as well as other goofs too long to go into detail, and you have a prime example of mismanagement, pure and simple.

We'll see how well Sarver and management fare when the last remnants of Colangelo's influence disappear. I hate to be pessimistic, but I haven't trusted Sarver the minute I found out he was a banker. Nothing he's done in 4 years has changed my mind. Quite the contrary ... his moves have only confirmed my worst fears. In three years, I see this team turning into another Clippers. I hope I'm wrong. Then again, as I see my decades long interest in the NBA dwindle and dwindle, I might be lucky enough by then to simply not care.

 

[jagu]

Suns are going to turn into the Knicks with Sarver around.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Suns are going to turn into the Knicks with Sarver around.

Now that's just plain silly.

 

[newfan101]

Now that's just plain silly.

I agree. The Knicks unparalleled incompetence is magnified by their bloated team salary. Since Sarver will never go into the luxury tax, thereby never having a huge team salary, his moves will just appear to be cheap and incompetent.

The Knicks and Isiah Thomas easily rank at the bottom.

 

[82CardsGrad]

@82cardsgrad

who the hell is that on your avatar?

Here ya go...

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=107679&highlight=Avatar

 

[BillsCarnage]

I agree 100%. The Suns have given away or sold FIVE firsts since Sarver took over, all for cash and tax savings. JC gave away 2 more for tax savings (Googs trade) in preparation of the Sarver sale. That's SEVEN 1st round picks since 2004 that were given away for NOTHING. Add that to the JJ fiasco, the Marcus Banks and Diaw bad signings, the failure to re-sign contributing players like Tim Thomas, the giving away of valuable players like Jones and KT, as well as other goofs too long to go into detail, and you have a prime example of mismanagement, pure and simple.

We'll see how well Sarver and management fare when the last remnants of Colangelo's influence disappear. I hate to be pessimistic, but I haven't trusted Sarver the minute I found out he was a banker. Nothing he's done in 4 years has changed my mind. Quite the contrary ... his moves have only confirmed my worst fears. In three years, I see this team turning into another Clippers. I hope I'm wrong. Then again, as I see my decades long interest in the NBA dwindle and dwindle, I might be lucky enough by then to simply not care.

It's mind boggling when the laundry list is made on the Sarver era. I really wish Todd McFarlane would have bought the Suns instead. He would have been a fun owner.

 

[shazaam6]

Suns could have been a dynasty.

Damn damtoni and his philosophy of not having a need for rookies.Arent new draftees on their rookie contracts cheap if they are good, compared to good vets? You can only afford to have a mix of both and be good. Meaning you cant sign all good vets to fill out your team because it gets too expensive due to luxury tax penalty. We had the good vets but sold what would have been our good cheap rookies.

 

[newfan101]

Suns could have been a dynasty.

Damn damtoni and his philosophy of not having a need for rookies.Arent new draftees on their rookie contracts cheap if they are good, compared to good vets? You can only afford to have a mix of both and be good. Meaning you cant sign all good vets to fill out your team because it gets too expensive due to luxury tax penalty. We had the good vets but sold what would have been our good cheap rookies.

Which rookie did he not play? Sarver gave away or sold every 1st since he bought the team. Alando Tucker is the ONLY 1st round rookie D'Antoni has coached since 2004. Blame Sarver and management ... not D'Antoni.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Which rookie did he not play? Sarver gave away or sold every 1st since he bought the team. Alando Tucker is the ONLY 1st round rookie D'Antoni has coached since 2004. Blame Sarver and management ... not D'Antoni.

You do realize that D'Antoni was part of management as early as last year, right?

 

[newfan101]

You do realize that D'Antoni was part of management as early as last year, right?

You think selling those picks for cash was D'Antoni's idea?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You think selling those picks for cash was D'Antoni's idea?

If you want to blame management, you can blame D'Antoni twofold. For his GM skills, and his roster management skills. Maybe it wasn't his idea per se, but if you want to blame management, D'Antoni gets some of that blame too, not just the owner. We were selling picks/trading players for picks before Sarver came along.

 

[newfan101]

If you want to blame management, you can blame D'Antoni twofold. For his GM skills, and his roster management skills. Maybe it wasn't his idea per se, but if you want to blame management, D'Antoni gets some of that blame too, not just the owner. We were selling picks/trading players for picks before Sarver came along.

I hated hated hated it when JC sold those picks in the Googs trade. However, at least he had the excuse of getting the team financials in line for the impending sale. Plus, we weren't winning.

Sarver inherited this incredible, exciting, profitable, league darling of a team. They always just needed one or two extra pieces to get over the hump. Nothing major. But each off-season, when either D'Antoni or Kerr came to him with countless deals to use whatever assets they had to add that missing piece, Sarver looked it over every time and said "Nah, I think I just want the cash. Sell those picks for cash. And by the way, your #1 job is to get me under the tax ... I don't care what it costs."

Yes, D'Antoni was a terrible manager. But he didn't lobby for the job, and was a stop gap till Kerr could come on board. Since almost every deal we've made has been a positive financial, negative basketball move, I can't see how anyone can put the blame on D'Antoni or Kerr.

All I need to know about Sarver is that in the middle of this incredible run, in which we've been right on the brink for 3 years, he chose to sell picks for cash. Sorry Phoenix, but we now have 2 Bill Bidwills ... just wait.

 

[da_suns_fan]

D'Antoni didn't ask to be GM, did he?

Did he tell Sarver to let Bryan Colangelo walk?

Lets list the history of Sarver blunders.


1) Traded their 2004 first round pick (seventh overall) to the Bulls. Bulls use the pick to draft Luol Deng. Andre Igudoula would be taken with the eigth pick as well.

2) Decided not to meet Joe Johnsons 6/50 million dollar contract request in 2004. At an average of 8.3 million a year, this is less than how much Boris Diaw is currently making.

3) Decided to not to re-sign Antonio McDyess. McDyess signs a four year, 23 million dollar deal with the pistons (5.75/year average).

4) Decided not to give Bryan Colangelo a contract extention or even an offer. Would later say that he prioritized giving money to players and coaches before GMS. Double-dips by making Mike D'Antoni coach/GM. In an ironic twist, this move will prove how important a good GM truly is as D'Antoni makes two critical blunders that will haunt the Suns for years to come:
1) Signs Boris Diaw to a 5 year/ 45 million dollar deal.
2) Signs Marcus Banks to a 5 year/21 million dollar deal.


5) Trades the rights to the 21st pick in 2006 to Boston for a 2007 first round pick. Boston uses the pick to draft Rajon Rondo, the Celtics' current starting point guard. The is the first time Sarver will "bribe" a team to take a player off the Suns' books as Boston had to take Brian Grant's contract along with the pick.

6) Trades the rights to the 29th pick in 2006 to Portland for Cash. Portland uses the pick to pick up point guard Sergio Rodriguez.

7) Decides not to sign Tim Thomas who signs with the Clippers for 5 million a year.

8) Trades the pick rights to the 24th pick in 2007 to Portland for cash. Portland uses the pick to up guard Rudy Fernandez. This will be the second time the Suns "bribe" another team to take a contract off their books, as Portland was required to take James Jones' contract along with the pick.

9) Trades Kurt Thomas (who was in the final year of his deal) and two future first round picks to Seatlle for a future second round pick. This will be the third time the Suns "bribe" another team to take a player off their books, although the previous instnaces didn't come close to how much the Suns were willing to give up just to avoid paying Kurt Thomas' salary. Seattle would end up paying Kurt Thomas's expiring contract for only half a season before trading him to San Antonio for another first round pick.

Am I forgetting anything?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

D'Antoni didn't ask to be GM, did he?

Did he tell Sarver to let Bryan Colangelo walk?

Lets list the history of Sarver blunders.


1) Traded their 2004 first round pick (seventh overall) to the Bulls. Bulls use the pick to draft Luol Deng. Andre Igudoula would be taken with the eigth pick as well.

2) Decided not to meet Joe Johnsons 6/50 million dollar contract request in 2004. At an average of 8.3 million a year, this is less than how much Boris Diaw is currently making.

3) Decided to not to re-sign Antonio McDyess. McDyess signs a four year, 23 million dollar deal with the pistons (5.75/year average).

4) Decided not to give Bryan Colangelo a contract extention or even an offer. Would later say that he prioritized giving money to players and coaches before GMS. Double-dips by making Mike D'Antoni coach/GM.

5) Trades the rights to the 21st pick in 2006 to Boston for a 2007 first round pick. Boston uses the pick to draft Rajon Rondo, the Celtics' current starting point guard. The is the first time Sarver will "bribe" a team to take a player off the Suns' books as Boston had to take Brian Grant's contract along with the pick.

6) Trades the rights to the 29th pick in 2006 to Portland for Cash. Portland uses the pick to pick up point guard Sergio Rodriguez.

7) Decides not to sign Tim Thomas who signs with the Clippers for 5 million a year.

8) Trades the pick rights to the 24th pick in 2007 to Portland for cash. Portland uses the pick to up guard Rudy Fernandez. This will be the second time the Suns "bribe" another team to take a contract off their books, as Portland was required to take James Jones' contract along with the pick.

9) Trades Kurt Thomas (who was in the final year of his deal) and two future first round picks to Seatlle for a future second round pick. This will be the third time the Suns "bribe" another team to take a player off their books, although the previous instnaces didn't come close to how much the Suns were willing to give up just to avoid paying Kurt Thomas' salary. Seattle would end up paying Kurt Thomas's expiring contract for only half a season before trading him to San Antonio for another first round pick.

Am I forgetting anything?

Yes, that you are placing all of the Suns problems on the owner, when it is not all his fault. If anything, if you want to look at the owner, you look at the bottom line and you see that Sarver has been just as successful overall than Colangelo.

 

[newfan101]

Yes, that you are placing all of the Suns problems on the owner, when it is not all his fault. If anything, if you want to look at the owner, you look at the bottom line and you see that Sarver has been just as successful overall than Colangelo.

Unfortunately, they don't give championships to the team with the best bottom line. But it's nice to know that his healthy bottom line will be just fine with some fans as the Suns head toward a nice long run of mediocrity.