The Suns Need For Defense Appears Desperate

[Mainstreet]

The Suns need for defense over the past several seasons has always been a concern. Now it appears the Suns defense may be hitting a new low. I'm not sure the Suns have the right players on their roster to play even mediocre defense. I think Shaq's take on the situation, although demoralizing, is true. Certainly turnovers become a bigger issue when the Suns can't stop an opponent.

"I don't understand going into a zone with five shooters on the floor," O'Neal said. "I never understood that. You just got to guard somebody. We can't let a guy get 52 on us."

The Suns use zone because they can be poor in individual matchups and help defense. After sending away some of their better defenders (Kurt Thomas, James Jones, Shawn Marion and Raja Bell) since July 2007, the Suns have to rely more on accountability and team defense. It's especially true given that Grant Hill is the starting lineup's top defender and one of three starters in their mid-30s.

I thought a decent backup PG might up the Suns situation (at least improving turnovers) but the problem is much larger since the Suns seemingly can't make any stops on defense.

Quote from Paul Coro's article at the Arizona Republic dated 12-19-08:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/12/19/20081219spt-suns.html

 

[nowagimp]

The Suns need for defense over the past several seasons has always been a concern. Now it appears the Suns defense may be hitting a new low. I'm not sure the Suns have the right players on their roster to play even mediocre defense. I think Shaq's take on the situation, although demoralizing, is true. Certainly turnovers become a bigger issue when the Suns can't stop an opponent.



I thought a decent backup PG might up the Suns situation (at least improving turnovers) but the problem is much larger since the Suns seemingly can't make any stops on defense.

Quote from Paul Coro's article at the Arizona Republic dated 12-19-08:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/12/19/20081219spt-suns.html

Still looks like the suns cant guard the '2'. It may be worse than before considering the two games since raja left. Raja wouldnt let Roy drop 50, and that was an easy 50, almost no fighting through the screens. I dont know if the suns have the players to play good D.

 

[Mainstreet]

And there are also those pesky PGs the Suns have never been able to stop like Tony Parker, Devin Harris, Chris Paul... and now even players like Steve Blake.

 

[arwillan]

Still looks like the suns cant guard the '2'. It may be worse than before considering the two games since raja left. Raja wouldnt let Roy drop 50, and that was an easy 50, almost no fighting through the screens. I dont know if the suns have the players to play good D.

what makes you think raja would stop roy that night? he gave up 43 to wade, 28 to vince carter, 21 to morris peterson, and even 33 to O.J Mayo (a rookie). His defense was total crap this year, so i have no reason to believe roy would have had a tougher time against him.

 

[mojorizen7]

The defense over the course of the last few ballgames has been "bad" much like we've seen here for years...but we're running a bit more too. This team is capable of being a decent defensive team IMO. Not great...but decent(top 15). Not sure where the committment has gone lately. Me thinks it's taken a back seat to the pressure(from the players & fans) of running a more uptempo offense.
Not sure where this team is headed defensively yet. Amare has played better on the other end lately as has Barbosa, but the tinkering continues with the addition of Richardson who has instantly put a charge into the offense giving us more versatilty in both the uptempo & half court sets.
If the SUNS haven't shown an increased committment & improvement defensively in the coming weeks i'll be very dissappointed.

 

[Mainstreet]

what makes you think raja would stop roy that night? he gave up 43 to wade, 28 to vince carter, 21 to morris peterson, and even 33 to O.J Mayo (a rookie). His defense was total crap this year, so i have no reason to believe roy would have had a tougher time against him.

The point is not just the lack of Raja (which I think was a great trade for Richardson) but the Suns lack of any defensive stoppers on the team. Except for Shaq clogging up the middle, Hill is probably the Suns best defender. It's really worrisome both now and in the playoffs.

 

[mojorizen7]

Still looks like the suns cant guard the '2'. It may be worse than before considering the two games since raja left. Raja wouldnt let Roy drop 50, and that was an easy 50, almost no fighting through the screens. I dont know if the suns have the players to play good D.

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The Raja worship is here. Hilarious.If you believe that Raja would've helped the SUNS cause in winning that ballgame by stopping Roy as well as doing anything on the offensive end i can't help you.

As far as your other claim,yeah i agree....the SUNS do need better defensive player(s).

 

[mojorizen7]

The point is not just the lack of Raja (which I think was a great trade for Richardson) but the Suns lack of any defensive stoppers on the team. Except for Shaq clogging up the middle, Hill is probably the Suns best defender. It's really worrisome both now and in the playoffs.

I agree Mainstreet but honestly, where was this concern from fans like yourself & Gimp in prior years?
I distinctly remember this defensive issue being thoroughly spun into a non-issue and thus ignored in the past.
Please explain this phenomenon.

 

[nowagimp]

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The Raja worship is here. Hilarious.If you believe that Raja would've helped the SUNS cause in winning that ballgame by stopping Roy as well as doing anything on the offensive end i can't help you.

As far as your other claim,yeah i agree....the SUNS do need better defensive player(s).

Roy scored 30(?) on Raja last meeting and was criticized for terrible defense, and it wasnt very good. But now Im LOL at giving up 52 to Roy, ding! ding! ding! time to wake up, the guard defense sucks even more now. I wonder what Kobe or DWade will do next time .... shudder shudder .... I think I recall alot of " if we would only practice defense more ..." LOL at that one as well!

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree Mainstreet but honestly, where was this concern from fans like yourself & Gimp in prior years?
I distinctly remember this defensive issue being thoroughly spun into a non-issue and thus ignored in the past.
Please explain this phenomenon.

It's easy. DA was regularly able to beat teams with his offensive system. See his 57 game wins a season average the past four seasons not to mention the playoffs. Also DA did have a few defensive players around in James Jones, KT, Marion and a younger Bell. Now the Suns have to win basically with their offense with little or no defensive assistance. I don't think Porter can consistently win with just offense.

 

[mojorizen7]

It's easy. DA was regularly able to beat teams with his offensive system. See his 57 game wins a season average the past four seasons not to mention the playoffs. Also DA did have a few defensive players around in James Jones, KT, Marion and a younger Bell. Now the Suns have to win basically with their offense with little or no defensive assistance. I don't think Porter can consistently win with just offense.

Thanks for the reply. While i agree that Porter cannot win without some defense, to say that DA's SUNS used defense in any way as a catalyst in winning all those regular season games is.....IMO.....very inaccurate.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thanks for the reply. While i agree that Porter cannot win without some defense, to say that DA's SUNS used defense in any way as a catalyst in winning all those regular season games is.....IMO.....very inaccurate.

I guess you would have to ignore the players I mentioned in my previous post. The Suns defense last season (at least to the eye) was much worse under DA than in previous seasons. Now those players lost were not defensive stoppers but they did occasionally make some stops.

 

[mojorizen7]

I guess you would have to ignore the players I mentioned in my previous post. The Suns defense last season (at least to the eye) was much worse under DA than in previous seasons. Now those players lost were not defensive stoppers but they did occasionally make some stops.

Ok, as does this team...but more frequently..... as well as secure important rebounds....more frequently. Lets touch on this again in a week or so after the microcosm that is Roy going for 50 isn't fogging up your memories of DA's consistently pathetic defensive teams.

 

[cly2tw]

Roy scored 30(?) on Raja last meeting and was criticized for terrible defense, and it wasnt very good. But now Im LOL at giving up 52 to Roy, ding! ding! ding! time to wake up, the guard defense sucks even more now. I wonder what Kobe or DWade will do next time .... shudder shudder .... I think I recall alot of " if we would only practice defense more ..." LOL at that one as well!

It is nice to know that Raja started to give effort again after realizing that he was not gonna to get an extension from shirking. Good for Bobcats. What else is new that he didn't put in much effort for whatever reason this season on the Suns? Or that Diaw is not a good fit here for his talent?

 

[Mainstreet]

Ok, as does this team...but more frequently..... as well as secure important rebounds....more frequently. Lets touch on this again in a week or so after the microcosm that is Roy going for 50 isn't fogging up your memories of DA's consistently pathetic defensive teams.

Did I mention Roy? Really, I don't know how one shuts down a player like Roy once he gets started. It's almost like trying to shut down Wade or Kobe after they get going. What bothers me most about the Suns is Blake killed them like most other PGs. Sure better rebounding and less turnovers would definitely help. I'm just trying to figure out how a bad Suns defense, especially towards the end of last season, got even worse this season.

 

[mojorizen7]

Did I mention Roy? Really, I don't know how one shuts down a player like Roy once he gets started. It's almost like trying to shut down Wade or Kobe after they get going. What bothers me most about the Suns is Blake killed them like most other PGs. Sure better rebounding and less turnovers would definitely help. I'm just trying to figure out how a bad Suns defense, especially towards the end of last season, got even worse this season.

I don't think its worse but if it doesn't get any better it will be extremely dissappointing.

 

[AfroSuns]

Roy scored 30(?) on Raja last meeting and was criticized for terrible defense, and it wasnt very good. But now Im LOL at giving up 52 to Roy, ding! ding! ding! time to wake up, the guard defense sucks even more now. I wonder what Kobe or DWade will do next time .... shudder shudder .... I think I recall alot of " if we would only practice defense more ..." LOL at that one as well!

I doubt Raja could have shut Roy down in that particular game, didn't Crawford just laid 50 points on him. Raja's defensive mojo suddenly died last season for whatever reason and his offense his sliding at an alarming rate too. JRich may not bring the back the Raja of old kind of defense but he certainly cant do worse.

 

[Andrew]

Nash played some pretty decent defense on Billups Saturday night. And Lopez continues to impress me with his defensive mentality, he just needs to not think like a rookie and limit his mistakes. Barnes can certainly be a lock-down defender if need be and J Rich has certainly showed at times he is more capable of defense than Diaw.

 

[Errntknght]

Earlier in the season the team was doing a fair job... middling job anyway, of pushing(herding?) drivers to the baseline. I think Porter even said that was the plan. Lately, they seem to have forgotten about it completely... haven't seen it for several games now. Did anyone hear Porter or any coach say that they'd given up on that idea? I suppose it just got forgotten with all the other changes going on.

I think its a very good idea for this team as opponents are doing a great deal of damage going down the middle. Shaq is not quick enough to guard the paint like he used to and Amare has the reaction time of a sloth on D (slight exaggeration). Heck if we could cut that down by 20% it would help a lot.

Its not all on the perimeter defenders - the bigs have to 'show' when someone on the outside starts to drive or even starts to maneuver into position. Let them see that you have your eye on them and take a half step toward their path - they'll often decide to try something else. As soon as someone sets a high screen for a known driver, you can figure out whats going to happen right then but if you stand around hoping his man will be able to cut him off, you've got no chance if he gets by. Watch Amare sometime, he never reacts until the guy is two steps past the screen - if then. (When he's the last line of defence, I mean - not when its his man setting the screen.)

 

[msdundee]

Great to see Porter's learning fast. He gave the perfect response to Shaq:

"• On Shaquille O'Neal's criticism of using a zone defense: "I like that, because then it's easy for me. I don't mind that. If we're going to have someone to blame, it's on you. You wanted to play man. Man up. That's what it's all about."

Forgot the link: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/12/21/20081221spt-sunsnb.html

 

[Mainstreet]

Earlier in the season the team was doing a fair job... middling job anyway, of pushing(herding?) drivers to the baseline. I think Porter even said that was the plan. Lately, they seem to have forgotten about it completely... haven't seen it for several games now. Did anyone hear Porter or any coach say that they'd given up on that idea? I suppose it just got forgotten with all the other changes going on.

Good point. It seems when the Suns opened up their offense they forgot about the defense. Yes, there was a lot of talk and effort from Porter about pushing drivers to the baseline.

Just a thought. Before Porter opened up the offense he appeared close to losing the team. Now that player changes have been made and the Suns are more comfortable on offense, perhaps Porter will try to slide the defensive concept of pushing drivers to the baseline again.

 

[arwillan]

Nash played some pretty decent defense on Billups Saturday night. And Lopez continues to impress me with his defensive mentality, he just needs to not think like a rookie and limit his mistakes. Barnes can certainly be a lock-down defender if need be and J Rich has certainly showed at times he is more capable of defense than Diaw.

what times were those? diaw is actually a pretty good defender, especially considering his size.

 

[Irish]

I don't have an ANSWER. Good defensive teams play together for a while and this team hasn't. Two of their top seven guys are totally new and everyone is new to Porter. Still, it is frustrating when guys like Roy seem to hit everything no matter how well covered.

The problem the Suns had with Roy was that the Blazers ran lots of picks and screens for him. The "solution" is to swith on every pick, but the Suns don't have the personel to do that (everyone has to be big and quick). In any case, the Suns can't swiich on wing AND keep guys out of the paint.

Nash really does try on defense, but he's too slow to be much help. Most teams keeep running picks until they can get isolated on Nash and thn attack. Leadrno is getting better, but he still struggles. My hope is that in their search for a new PG they get someone who can defend.

 

[Errntknght]

Make up your mind George, is it 'swith' or 'swiich'?

 

[cly2tw]

Great to see Porter's learning fast. He gave the perfect response to Shaq:

"• On Shaquille O'Neal's criticism of using a zone defense: "I like that, because then it's easy for me. I don't mind that. If we're going to have someone to blame, it's on you. You wanted to play man. Man up. That's what it's all about."

Forgot the link: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/12/21/20081221spt-sunsnb.html

Who is you? Shaq? And he should man up in zone defense? I sure can't make sense out of it.