The truth is...

[Cbus cardsfan]

Unfortunately Green is also responsible for nearly all the talent on this team so blaming poor talent does not work. He hired them , he drafted them and he also fired them. You reap what you sew.

I was talking about the absolutely horrendous talent level he inherited when he took the job. It's alot better now.But, you can only fix so much in a year and a half. The talent is not great now but they are on their way to getting there. Every year there will less and less holes to fill.Other than Boldin and Davis, Green has pretty much had to redo the entire roster.

 

[duckfallas]

Get rid of all the Mac players. Every single one. Especially on defense.

No coach was going to turn this thing around in short order. Actually it is surprising they won 6 games last season.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

as I see it anyway, that for the most part those that defend Green, or by proxy, somehow find merit to this "team", have been fans of the Cardinals for less than the time they have been in Arizona.

Those that are "Cardinal" fans and not just "Arizona Cardinal" fans, understand, and acknowledge, that Green has failed. IMO, those that defend his methods, or, more importantly, his performance over the last 1 and 1/2 years, are beyond my comprehension. Maybe I am just too damn old. Maybe I have lost touch with reality. Maybe, I have been a Cardinal fan too damm long. Maybe.

But, whatever the case, Green is a bust.

I'm a 35 year Cardinal fan.

Couldn't care less if they are in Arizona and, given nostalgia, still wish they were in the NFC East. That said: I'm in the "Denny camp" at this point. Clearly there's a nucleus of better talent on this team and we will be adding to it in the offseason.

I also doubt that we'd be at our present win-loss had we not sustained so many injuries.

My sense, left to be seen, is that in the offseason Denny Green will end up with even more power to make personnel decisions.

 

[nidan]

Agreed. The only way this O line will get better is if they play together for a few seasons. Leckey needs to stay at center and Step needs to ride the pine.

Not sure Davis is going to get better, slow and makes way to many errors

 

[duckfallas]

Someone needs to tell the announcer for yesterday's game that. When he said that Big was having his best NFL season, I spit up about half my beer.

 

[nidan]

Pretty much what Bill Lewis said this morning.

 

[seesred]

I'm big time in Greens corner and I've been to every game they have played in Arizona. 1 1/2 years that's all you will give? 1 1/2 years. If he would have come in the first year and said folks it's going to take 3 years to change it around, you would say why so long. He tryed to instill some confidense of change. And change he has done. We have better players today than at any point save for 97-98. This guy knows talent just look at the apst two drafts. He can attract FA's..Bertrum Berry , Okie etc. With 3/4 of the starting defense on the shelf or near it see Dansby Pendergast went from genus to bum in 1/2 season. The O-line was acttually coming around now another big injury Wells.Green will be the coach for the foreseeable future. I for one am very happy about that.

GBR
40

 

[phillycard]

Green did do pretty much what Cowher has done when he had the talent in Minny.I'll give you that expectation levels are different but it was DG who came in last year expecting to make the playoffs and told everyone that. I don't see how you can hold that against him when, in reality, the talent level was worse than what SF has and you don't hear Nolan spouting playoffs in SF.

I'm not holding anything against him Cbus. I want to defend Denny so bad, and I'm still happy that he's my coach. I just want to see some positive results on the field come game day. I don't think that I am being unreasonable in that respect. You have to admit that we are delivering some absolute garbage these days. It should not be difficult to deliver quality NFL football on Sundays and we are not getting that. Everybody talks about how bad Hoston is, man we'd have gotten destroyed yesterday by Indy. They made it a game at least. Granted they do stink, and have had some clunkers, but when are we going to start being competitive??

 

[JC_AZ]

It is pretty simple really...

we have unqualified coaches under DG (he picked 'em) and we make no changes during the games to deal with what is happening, and we have not figured out that calling in new plays on EVERY DOWN when we are down by 2 scores with 6 minutes to go is not affective clock management...we operate at the same friggin pace, no matter the score, no matter the time remaining and no matter how effective we were in the 2 games that JM used that and we won... we seem unable to adjust or learn real time and what we practice during the week is offset by much better planning by the opposition.
We are losing because of coaching, plain and simple... the injuries are a factor no doubt but if our depth is such (or lack of it) that we can not compete when we have injuries... it is all about the coaching still...coach them up, teach them the basic skills to be productive (catching the ball, blocking, tackling, turning around and looking for passes as a DB, etc.) This is all pretty simple stuff and we are not executing as professional athletes...why? Coaching is supposed to be professional at this level as much as the players...if it ain't gettin' done...then fix it by applying the basic principles of execution and accountability just like I am at my job. This season was (already over) crap, and it will only get worse unless the players can find a reason to believe that their coaches have figured out how to stop the bleeding.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

we have unqualified coaches under DG (he picked 'em) and we make no changes during the games to deal with what is happening, and we have not figured out that calling in new plays on EVERY DOWN when we are down by 2 scores with 6 minutes to go is not affective clock management...we operate at the same friggin pace, no matter the score, no matter the time remaining and no matter how effective we were in the 2 games that JM used that and we won... we seem unable to adjust or learn real time and what we practice during the week is offset by much better planning by the opposition.
We are losing because of coaching, plain and simple... the injuries are a factor no doubt but if our depth is such (or lack of it) that we can not compete when we have injuries... it is all about the coaching still...coach them up, teach them the basic skills to be productive (catching the ball, blocking, tackling, turning around and looking for passes as a DB, etc.) This is all pretty simple stuff and we are not executing as professional athletes...why? Coaching is supposed to be professional at this level as much as the players...if it ain't gettin' done...then fix it by applying the basic principles of execution and accountability just like I am at my job. This season was (already over) crap, and it will only get worse unless the players can find a reason to believe that their coaches have figured out how to stop the bleeding.

Torry Holt didn't see that pass coming yesterday and it would've been a sure TD.If Mike Martz was on the sideline that would've never happened.Fire the interim guy.He can't coach a lick if Holt's going to play like that.

You're right though,injuries are a non-factor.Joey Harrington should be throwing 3 TD's no matter who's out the playing WR.There's absolutely no difference if it's Kevin Kasper or Roy Williams out there.It's all coaching. You give me a bunch of arena football league players and i'll coach them up in the basics and ,by god, i'll win in the NFL.It's just all fundamentals.I didn't realize it was all so simple. You should send this note to Dom Capers,Herm Edwards,Brian Billick, and Steve Marriucci. They can start working on those things. Ray Lewis will soon be an afterthought.

 

[JC_AZ]

Cynicism is a cheap response

Torry Holt didn't see that pass coming yesterday and it would've been a sure TD.If Mike Martz was on the sideline that would've never happened.Fire the interim guy.He can't coach a lick if Holt's going to play like that.

You're right though,injuries are a non-factor.Joey Harrington should be throwing 3 TD's no matter who's out the playing WR.There's absolutely no difference if it's Kevin Kasper or Roy Williams out there.It's all coaching. You give me a bunch of arena football league players and i'll coach them up in the basics and ,by god, i'll win in the NFL.It's just all fundamentals.I didn't realize it was all so simple. You should send this note to Dom Capers,Herm Edwards,Brian Billick, and Steve Marriucci. They can start working on those things. Ray Lewis will soon be an afterthought.

Your cynicismm is quite cute Cbus, and I always appreciate a smartass with feedback. Follow me here, since you missed it the first time... I did state that injuries WERE a factor in a teams performance... I can not understand how you can absolve the coaching staff of this team from responsibilty and the performance of the team on the field. The players are paid to play a PROFESSIONAL sport, as I am paid to fill a PROFESSIONAL position in my job, but if the people leading the operation are terribly inadequate, do not recognoze how to use the skills or the resources they have been provided, then they will fail, no matter what the talent level is...am I not saying that the players arent also failing to meet their expectations? NO... but it takes the folks on both sides of the white lines to be in sync, to adjust to the situation at hand and to move FORWARD...if this is not being accomplished, you have to start to question the leadership and the training of the staff to see if there are changes that need to be made!
Three games in a row, we played as if we had all the time in the world to go down the field and score a touchdown, when we needed at least 2 scores to win...no change of pace, no real effort to actually try for 2 scores until it was too late...plays across the middle with no time outs, running up the middle with no time outs... who is responsible for this crap?

 

[Cardsmasochist]

I believe in Green. I thought they would be better than last year but I never thought that they were going to win the division. My best hope was that they go 8-8.

What seperates the Cardinals from the good teams is depth. They have it and we don't. So when our players get injured, it REALLY hurts the team. (Hey that was a pun and I wasn't even trying).

Anyway, I thought Denny needed to repeat his great draft class and FA signings from two years ago two more times for us to be decent when we open up the new stadium. Unfortunately, our last draft class and FA signing was poor to average at best. (Oliver Ross is horrible) We will need a repeat of the '04 off season to have a chance.

Give Denny more than a year and a half before running him out of town. Last year, us die-hards were complaining about the O-line (both players and coach) this year the complaints are getting louder and louder from the media and even the casual fan. Denny better have some major deals to fix this in the off-season.

Denny will turn this around. He has done it everywhere he has gone. He will do it here, too. It just might take another year....or two.