the "What Ended Season 2022?" thread

[Mainstreet]

Cam Johnson may disagree tho.
I think this will be interesting to watch.

Maybe something like 4/$80 million?

 

[Finito]

The examples you give demonstrate the Suns are willing to pay players when they feel they are worth a large contract. They opened their pockets much wider than I thought. It makes one question whether they had a legitimate reason for not giving Ayton the max or reaching an agreement for something slightly less.

I do think Cam Johnson will be paid less than Mikal Bridges and I wouldn't disagree with that.

They offered him max money but not the years. They said they would give him a max for 3/4 years but not 5 if I remember right.

Combine that with Stix contract and the fact that Paul’s contract isn’t fully guaranteed after two years tells me Sarver has said he’s willing to spend but for only so long

 

[Mainstreet]

They offered him max money but not the years. They said they would give him a max for 3/4 years but not 5 if I remember right.

Combine that with Stix contract and the fact that Paul’s contract isn’t fully guaranteed after two years tells me Sarver has said he’s willing to spend but for only so long

If you are referring to Ayton, I'm not sure there was ever an offer on the table. I think Ayton wanted the max or super max.

 

[Chaplin]

If you are referring to Ayton, I'm not sure there was ever an offer on the table. I think Ayton wanted the max or super max.

There would have been an offer on the table has the table existed.

 

[Finito]

If you are referring to Ayton, I'm not sure there was ever an offer on the table. I think Ayton wanted the max or super max.

Those were the rumors.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Those were the rumors.

Ayton's camp said no offer was made. JJ said that was true but they were prepared to offer a max dollar 3 or 4 year deal - it never reached that point because his agent said full max or nothing to talk about.

 

[Mainstreet]

There would have been an offer on the table has the table existed.

Those were the rumors.

As I understand it, there was no formal negotiation because Ayton's camp wanted a max extension and it was never on the table real or not.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton's camp said no offer was made. JJ said that was true but they were prepared to offer a max dollar 3 or 4 year deal - it never reached that point because his agent said full max or nothing to talk about.

No offer was made because the Suns were going to offer less than 5 years, Ayton's camp said it had to be 5 years, so James Jones said no formal offer was made, but both sides knew the positions of the other side.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No offer was made because the Suns were going to offer less than 5 years, Ayton's camp said it had to be 5 years, so James Jones said no formal offer was made, but both sides knew the positions of the other side.

Yeah and as I recall, it never went further than that one phone call.

 

[somethingshesaid]

I saw a comment elsewhere (not this forum) that sounded incendiary in its accusations. This commenter was accusing Devin Booker of also ignoring Ayton--the phrase "freezing out" might have been used, I forget. So in fandom there is now an accusation that both players of the starting backcourt were foolish enough to ignore their center for no obvious reason except possibly wanting to hog the ball. This, in addition to a rant somewhere that the players took bribes to lose from the Mafia.

Whether or not the comments were actually on the right track, I would hope the players receive strong pressure next season to exploit Ayton more. If he's even there.

 

[Covert Rain]

I saw a comment elsewhere (not this forum) that sounded incendiary in its accusations. This commenter was accusing Devin Booker of also ignoring Ayton--the phrase "freezing out" might have been used, I forget. So in fandom there is now an accusation that both players of the starting backcourt were foolish enough to ignore their center for no obvious reason except possibly wanting to hog the ball. This, in addition to a rant somewhere that the players took bribes to lose from the Mafia.

Whether or not the comments were actually on the right track, I would hope the players receive strong pressure next season to exploit Ayton more. If he's even there.

Not that I am comparing Kobe and Shaq by ANY STRETCH but it does remind me of stories I read about them. At one point, Kobe was just telling everyone "get out the way" when he wanted to score and at some point Shaq told Kobe give him the damn ball if you want to win.

If Booker was freezing out Ayton I would get why he was frustrated especially when CP3/Booker were ineffective. The problem is Ayton doesn't command the respect someone like Shaq did on his team. If any of this is true? Monty has some huge problems on this team between CP3, Booker and Ayton. I mean big problems.

 

[GatorAZ]

No offer was made because the Suns were going to offer less than 5 years, Ayton's camp said it had to be 5 years, so James Jones said no formal offer was made, but both sides knew the positions of the other side.

If true that’s a mistake by Bill Duffy not to negotiate because you’re putting a ceiling on his contract. A 4-year max from the Suns has 8% raises compared to 4% from another team. Maybe the Suns weren’t willing to go 4 years either…. Who knows.

 

[Mainstreet]

If true that’s a mistake by Bill Duffy not to negotiate because you’re putting a ceiling on his contract. A 4-year max from the Suns has 8% raises compared to 4% from another team. Maybe the Suns weren’t willing to go 4 years either…. Who knows.

Both sides remained mostly silent on the issue but it did not appear there was any negotiation to find an alternative solution.

The only known time when there might have been some discussion is when Ayton and Sarver met together in a restaurant.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Not that I am comparing Kobe and Shaq by ANY STRETCH but it does remind me of stories I read about them. At one point, Kobe was just telling everyone "get out the way" when he wanted to score and at some point Shaq told Kobe give him the damn ball if you want to win.

If Booker was freezing out Ayton I would get why he was frustrated especially when CP3/Booker were ineffective. The problem is Ayton doesn't command the respect someone like Shaq did on his team. If any of this is true? Monty has some huge problems on this team between CP3, Booker and Ayton. I mean big problems.

And problems with hidden truths coming out. Because if two-thirds of the starting lineup are in conflict, it would obviously mean that coach has been quite unsuccessful in managing his players, and his reputation as a motivator is probably a little inflated, possibly even largely a myth. Great person, yes; but practically, a motivator? Couldn't motivate his starters to cooperate, any more than Jerry Colangelo and his coaches could motivate Kevin Johnson and Charles Barkley.

Wouldn't be the first time I suspected that the Suns franchise let the public believe a myth about some of its players, for marketing purposes. In this case it would be that the Suns' key players not only get along but actually like each other.

 

[Finito]

Not that I am comparing Kobe and Shaq by ANY STRETCH but it does remind me of stories I read about them. At one point, Kobe was just telling everyone "get out the way" when he wanted to score and at some point Shaq told Kobe give him the damn ball if you want to win.

If Booker was freezing out Ayton I would get why he was frustrated especially when CP3/Booker were ineffective. The problem is Ayton doesn't command the respect someone like Shaq did on his team. If any of this is true? Monty has some huge problems on this team between CP3, Booker and Ayton. I mean big problems.

Booker wasn’t Freezing Ayton out. Booker was kind of exposed without Paul he was clueless on how to handle a double team. He needs to get the ball out the second he sees it coming. I can’t count how many times he lets it come and picked up his dribble getting stuck

 

[Covert Rain]

Booker wasn’t Freezing Ayton out. Booker was kind of exposed without Paul he was clueless on how to handle a double team. He needs to get the ball out the second he sees it coming. I can’t count how many times he lets it come and picked up his dribble getting stuck

That doesn't mean much. I remember multiple times that Booker or Paul signaled everyone to clear out (Ayton) during both series. The double teams that may have come after that doesn't dispel the notion at all. Again, I am not assuming it's true. I am saying if it is true this team has BIG issues.

 

[somethingshesaid]

That doesn't mean much. I remember multiple times that Booker or Paul signaled everyone to clear out (Ayton) during both series. The double teams that may have come after that doesn't dispel the notion at all. Again, I am not assuming it's true. I am saying if it is true this team has BIG issues.

For my understanding, what does that mean--signaling everyone to clear out (Ayton)? Does that mean telling everyone including Ayton to get out of their way so they can score? That sounds bad.

 

[Covert Rain]

For my understanding, what does that mean--signaling everyone to clear out (Ayton)? Does that mean telling everyone including Ayton to get out of their way so they can score? That sounds bad.

Yes. We see it all the time with Booker and Paul. They wave off anybody in the paint to clear a path. It's pretty common in this offense.

 

[Finito]

Yes. We see it all the time with Booker and Paul. They wave off anybody in the paint to clear a path. It's pretty common in this offense.

Oh they 100% stopped trusting each other. It was a complete breakdown on offense and defense.

Our defensive rotations were horrible and we were scrambling all over the place.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Yes. We see it all the time with Booker and Paul. They wave off anybody in the paint to clear a path. It's pretty common in this offense.

That's awful...it means they were choosing to play "hero ball."

Personally, I would like to never hear another word about what a great motivator Monty Williams is, because it obviously counts for nothing in practical results. In fact, no: it arguably counts for negative results, considering that the end result of Williams' great motivational speaking skill was his starting backcourt waving off their teammates to play hero ball. These two don't need a motivational speaker, they need a drill sergeant. Probably.

You can say it motivated a 64-18 season (or 65-17, whichever it was), but who cares about the regular season? Other Suns teams that won fewer regular-season games achieved better playoff results. We've seen high 50- and low 60-win seasons before.

As for motivational speaking: if that is all coach can do, he can take his motivational speaking and live in a van down by the river.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's awful...it means they were choosing to play "hero ball."

Personally, I would like to never hear another word about what a great motivator Monty Williams is, because it obviously counts for nothing in practical results. In fact, no: it arguably counts for negative results, considering that the end result of Williams' great motivational speaking skill was his starting backcourt waving off their teammates to play hero ball. These two don't need a motivational speaker, they need a drill sergeant. Probably.

As for motivational speaking: if that is all coach can do, he can take his motivational speaking and live in a van down by the river.

I think you're talking yourself into a bad conclusion. Having everyone clear out or waving off the screener happens a lot in the NBA, always has. We did it during the regular season too yet we were 4th in assists per game. And CP3 plus Devin combined for 10 fewer attempts in game 7 than their season average.

 

[95pro]

I think you're talking yourself into a bad conclusion. Having everyone clear out or waving off the screener happens a lot in the NBA, always has. We did it during the regular season too yet we were 4th in assists per game. And CP3 plus Devin combined for 10 fewer attempts in game 7 than their season average.

Wasnt cp3 almost tops for assists this year too?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wasnt cp3 almost tops for assists this year too?

Yeah Chris led the league in assists per game with almost 11, Booker averaged almost 5 which is excellent for an off guard.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Wasnt cp3 almost tops for assists this year too?

So was Steve Nash--at the top, even. And Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd were probably up there somewhere. Ask them how many championships it assured them of. Or, ask Suns followers how many times they've seen their starting point guard earn a regular season assist title. "Been there, seen that." More generally, ask them how much it still impresses them to see a team or individual record get set.

 

[somethingshesaid]

When I leave Arizona permanently next spring, I can't take Phoenix Suns/NBA viewership with me, because even if I could get much of it out in the midwest, my fiancee and I aren't planning to pay for cable. It's not upsetting me; I'm just sorry my last glimpse (sort of) of the team was them looking ridiculous like the 1994 Seattle Supersonics.

If I favored going to bars or even drinking--I don't, alcohol is poison and usually tastes terrible, and so I've never gone to a bar--any of the Suns players should go have a drink with Gary Payton, or maybe Shawn Kemp, and reminisce over their respective humiliations.