They Are Who We Thought They Were

[Harry]

Sure they got quite a few bad calls. But for those of you hoping for some magical change of this Cardinal team into a contender, well that just isn't this team.

Special teams almost singlehandedly doomed the Cards. Whether covering a punt or a kickoff they were not even close to being up to the task. When returning the ball it actually looked like Brown (I believe) took the ball then literally tackled himself by running into an engaged Viking who was the only tackler in view who posed a threat. Then there was the 72 yard punt that Brown appeared afraid to fair catch.

On offense the Cards held D. Johnson out for a complete drive. A pick 6 happened that might have ended differently with a DJ option. Of course part of the problem was Palmer. Was Brown held on the passing attempt? Maybe, but if you're going to throw to a spot you might not want to pick a spot occupied by a defender.

On offense third down execution was poor. The offensive line looked as bad as we feared. In addition to throwing deep, the Cards love to use that floating the ball to the corner in the red zone. Have they completed one of those this year? This is a mediocre team that will have to undergo a major offensive re-build to contend. It has a core of quality players but the offense is a wreck despite having the best RB in the league.

The defense was mostly effective though pass coverage was spotty. They also aren't getting the interceptions that turned games last season. Still this defense is good enough to contend. In the end injuries slowed this team, but I think we all simply wanted to believe they were better than the reality. The question is how fast can they fix it?

 

[dogpoo32]

As much credit as Arians deserves for the last few seasons, he deserves the same for this season. This team has started on their back foot in almost every game, and has been disorganized. His commitment to Amos Jones is embarrassing. We were promised a Superbowl run, and we got a turd instead.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Special teams is a huge area of concern...one that Arians refuses to address...which is costing this team games on a consistent basis. The offensive line has been hit with a myriad of injuries, so it's hard to expect back-ups to perform at pro-bowl level, but when Palmer doesn't have time...he just isn't effective. Couple that with suspect play-calling, especially in the red zone, and you have yourself a very under performing offense. The defense seems fine...they can hold their own, but the lack of turnovers forced hasn't helped, either. Seems to me that the Cardinals read way too much into the preseason hype...they lack focus and attention to detail...and they just don't seem very motivated. Arians definitely takes a large portion of the blame, but he'll be given this season and next to make a turnaround...and I'm sure he'll be forced to get rid of Amos Jones...who has no place coaching in the NFL.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure they got quite a few bad calls. But for those of you hoping for some magical change of this Cardinal team into a contender, well that just isn't this team.

Special teams almost singlehandedly doomed the Cards. Whether covering a punt or a kickoff they were not even close to being up to the task. When returning the ball it actually looked like Brown (I believe) took the ball then literally tackled himself by running into an engaged Viking who was the only tackler in view who posed a threat. Then there was the 72 yard punt that Brown appeared afraid to fair catch.

On offense the Cards held D. Johnson out for a complete drive. A pick 6 happened that might have ended differently with a DJ option. Of course part of the problem was Palmer. Was Brown held on the passing attempt? Maybe, but if you're going to throw to a spot you might not want to pick a spot occupied by a defender.

On offense third down execution was poor. The offensive line looked as bad as we feared. In addition to throwing deep, the Cards love to use that floating the ball to the corner in the red zone. Have they completed one of those this year? This is a mediocre team that will have to undergo a major offensive re-build to contend. It has a core of quality players but the offense is a wreck despite having the best RB in the league.

The defense was mostly effective though pass coverage was spotty. They also aren't getting the interceptions that turned games last season. Still this defense is good enough to contend. In the end injuries slowed this team, but I think we all simply wanted to believe they were better than the reality. The question is how fast can they fix it?

We are going to need a bunch of players to step up next year. The honeymoon is over.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Chopper0080]

Both Kiem and Arians will have tough off seasons ahead of them. Arians with Amos Jones. Kiem with his drafts which look worse by year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Vermont Maverick]

How about choosing to defer when you win the toss. Your defense is the best part of your team, put the on the field first. We have 14 points in the first quarter, starting with the ball EVERY game. Another example of Arians pigheaded approach.

 

[Shaggy]

How about choosing to defer when you win the toss. Your defense is the best part of your team, put the on the field first. We have 14 points in the first quarter, starting with the ball EVERY game. Another example of Arians pigheaded approach.

Its 21 now that they scored in the first quarter in this game.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Both Kiem and Arians will have tough off seasons ahead of them. Arians with Amos Jones. Kiem with his drafts which look worse by year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I can almost imagine MB and/or Keim going into to talk to BA a few times this season... And this is how I guess it goes:

MB/SK: "Listen Bruce..... We HAVE to get another punter".

BA: If Butler goes... I'll just retire

MB/SK: "Crap!!"


A few weeks later.......


MB/SK: "Listen Bruce..... We HAVE to get rid of (not so famous) Amos.. Special teams are killing us".

BA: BA: "If Amos goes... I'll just retire".



Hopefully they call his bluff soon.

There is NO WAY that many smart people are keeping Butler/Amos etc.... employed, unless their hands are tied.

 

[cardpa]

I can almost imagine MB and/or Keim going into to talk to BA a few times this season... And this is how I guess it goes:

MB/SK: "Listen Bruce..... We HAVE to get another punter".

BA: If Butler goes... I'll just retire

MB/SK: "Crap!!"


A few weeks later.......


MB/SK: "Listen Bruce..... We HAVE to get rid of (not so famous) Amos.. Special teams are killing us".

BA: BA: "If Amos goes... I'll just retire".



Hopefully they call his bluff soon.

There is NO WAY that many smart people are keeping Butler/Amos etc.... employed, unless their hands are tied.

My response would be Bruce you know where the exit door is .

 

[Harry]

This late in his career I don't think BA quickly gives up what he waited so long to get. The problem is more likely that Keim has deferred too often to BA. Keim needs to assert his role as GM and make the needed changes. Only a Keim has the power to give out and rescind contracts! I think if it came to it that available coaches would perceive that the culture in AZ has changed and would like to build a team around this defense and DJ as the centerpiece of the offense. The offense would not be as dynamic, but this team could contend next season if they make good offseason changes.

 

[MadCardDisease]

This team is snakebit this year. Someone angered the football gods:


John Brown dealing with a strange illness

Michael Floyd catching "Skillethands Johnson's" disease

Special Teams gaffs that have cost us at least 3 wins.

Replay going out against Carolina that spotted them 7 points.

Bizarre calls and no calls by the Refs on a consistent basis.

BA's head scratching decisions and getting outcoached by opposing teams.

A team that was supposed to be the deepest in the NFL suddenly looking pretty thin.

 

[cardpa]

I am beginning to wonder if Arians is a coach that can get a team to the pinnacle of the NFL, the Super Bowl. He is beginning to look like many other coaches who move from team to team and has great success the first 2-3 years only to flame out after that. We have seen that many times with a lot of coaches. They come in and the first 2-3 years the team plays well and improves each year and then suddenly it's like they drop off the edge of a cliff and they never get it back. They are great at motivating a team as long as the team sees itself as an underdog or disrespected. Then they become one of those teams that now is the target and they don't know how to change the mindset of the team form the underdog mentality to the top dog mentality because they have never been there themselves. His time at Pittsburgh doesn't count because he wasn't the HC. Some HCs are great builders but not so good finishers. Arians may be one of these types of coaches.

 

[Mitch]

I am beginning to wonder if Arians is a coach that can get a team to the pinnacle of the NFL, the Super Bowl. He is beginning to look like many other coaches who move from team to team and has great success the first 2-3 years only to flame out after that. We have seen that many times with a lot of coaches. They come in and the first 2-3 years the team plays well and improves each year and then suddenly it's like they drop off the edge of a cliff and they never get it back. They are great at motivating a team as long as the team sees itself as an underdog or disrespected. Then they become one of those teams that now is the target and they don't know how to change the mindset of the team form the underdog mentality to the top dog mentality because they have never been there themselves. His time at Pittsburgh doesn't count because he wasn't the HC. Some HCs are great builders but not so good finishers. Arians may be one of these types of coaches.

You make an interesting point. There comes a point in every coach's tenure where the players feel they have the coach figured out and they know what to expect and where they think they can cut some corners. BA this year is acting very much like a coach who knows he doesn't quite have the team's attention the way he had it previously. As a former coach, I know what that feels like and it is extremely stressful. it's kind of like waking up one morning and realizing that the woman you love isn't looking at you quite the same way---and you wonder if you could ever get her feelings back. Even though BA will never admit this---you start to doubt yourself.

But---when I look at coaches like Tom Coughlin, who grinded it out year after year---through up years and down years---it's not like his approach ever changed. The thing is---seasons take funny turns---and as BA says at the end of each year, the next team will be different and will have a different kind of chemistry.

BA didn't suddenly get dumb. But there are things he will learn from the struggles this year. For one, one has to wonder whether as a paly caller he really has time to argue with the refs as long as he does. When BA is on a roll, you can always see it in his sideline demeanor---he's quietly studying his play list and is think 2 to 3 plays ahead. The other thing is calling players out publicly---not a good practice and he is smart enough to know that. He can lose a locker room that way. Plus, with as mistake prone as his offense has been, I bet he's wondering about his hands off approach in the off-season and with giving Carson Palmer scheduled days off during game weeks (understandable given his age, but tough when the offense as a whole isn't clicking).

Sometimes to take two steps forward, one needs to take a step back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This late in his career I don't think BA quickly gives up what he waited so long to get. The problem is more likely that Keim has deferred too often to BA. Keim needs to assert his role as GM and make the needed changes. Only a Keim has the power to give out and rescind contracts! I think if it came to it that available coaches would perceive that the culture in AZ has changed and would like to build a team around this defense and DJ as the centerpiece of the offense. The offense would not be as dynamic, but this team could contend next season if they make good offseason changes.

This is actually a great point. This is now likely a plum job. Great weather. An owner who wants to win. A stud RB. A good defense. I think coaches would be champing at the bit to get hold of the reins now. A big change from prior years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am beginning to wonder if Arians is a coach that can get a team to the pinnacle of the NFL, the Super Bowl. He is beginning to look like many other coaches who move from team to team and has great success the first 2-3 years only to flame out after that. We have seen that many times with a lot of coaches. They come in and the first 2-3 years the team plays well and improves each year and then suddenly it's like they drop off the edge of a cliff and they never get it back. They are great at motivating a team as long as the team sees itself as an underdog or disrespected. Then they become one of those teams that now is the target and they don't know how to change the mindset of the team form the underdog mentality to the top dog mentality because they have never been there themselves. His time at Pittsburgh doesn't count because he wasn't the HC. Some HCs are great builders but not so good finishers. Arians may be one of these types of coaches.

You're describing the Ryans (father and sons). Maybe Arians is the offensive version.

 

[Darkside]

I am beginning to wonder if Arians is a coach that can get a team to the pinnacle of the NFL, the Super Bowl. He is beginning to look like many other coaches who move from team to team and has great success the first 2-3 years only to flame out after that. We have seen that many times with a lot of coaches. They come in and the first 2-3 years the team plays well and improves each year and then suddenly it's like they drop off the edge of a cliff and they never get it back. They are great at motivating a team as long as the team sees itself as an underdog or disrespected. Then they become one of those teams that now is the target and they don't know how to change the mindset of the team form the underdog mentality to the top dog mentality because they have never been there themselves. His time at Pittsburgh doesn't count because he wasn't the HC. Some HCs are great builders but not so good finishers. Arians may be one of these types of coaches.

This is a good post. But most coaches get recycled in the NFL. It's an old boys type network. Nobody new ever comes in...and if they do like Chip Kelly, they're quickly mediocre, at best.

As much as people hate Pete Carroll, he's been phenomenal, flirting with the NFL, going back to college, and then coming back to the NFL. With phenomenal success. Saban, who's probably the greatest coach in college football history, tried it and failed. He didn't even tell his team (Miami) he was leaving personally, like men, he just bounced.

I'm amazed at how much we hate Pete Carroll from Seattle on this board. People call him a cheater and all kinds of other things, but the dude wins. Same with Belichik. The dude freaking wins. His ra-ra type of coaching isn't my thing, but he's built a dynasty. I don't care what he did in college, if you're going to exclude him for that, then exclude every player in the NFL also. I think we're hypocrites, because I'd love to have that winning culture. They have it in Seattle, but we don't have it yet.

 

[JeffGollin]

Theory gets reconfirmed week after week:

When your team has unfixed weaknesses, those weaknesses will continue to resurface each week to cost you wins.

As in Carson's miscues, poor ST play & inconsistent WR production.

Each week, we say "we can't let these things happen any more" and then we let them happen again and again.

Take away the 3 ST screw ups and we're 7 - 2 - 1. Mix in a slightly less erratic Carson Palmer and, at the very least, that 7-win record looks more secure. It's just that simple.

But not if we play down to our weaknesses. Gotta fix them and make sure they stay fixed.

 

[CardNots]

Theory gets reconfirmed week after week:

When your team has unfixed weaknesses, those weaknesses will continue to resurface each week to cost you wins.

As in Carson's miscues, poor ST play & inconsistent WR production.

Each week, we say "we can't let these things happen any more" and then we let them happen again and again.

Take away the 3 ST screw ups and we're 7 - 2 - 1. Mix in a slightly less erratic Carson Palmer and, at the very least, that 7-win record looks more secure. It's just that simple.

But not if we play down to our weaknesses. Gotta fix them and make sure they stay fixed.

+1

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Theory gets reconfirmed week after week:

When your team has unfixed weaknesses, those weaknesses will continue to resurface each week to cost you wins.

As in Carson's miscues, poor ST play & inconsistent WR production.

Each week, we say "we can't let these things happen any more" and then we let them happen again and again.

Take away the 3 ST screw ups and we're 7 - 2 - 1. Mix in a slightly less erratic Carson Palmer and, at the very least, that 7-win record looks more secure. It's just that simple.

But not if we play down to our weaknesses. Gotta fix them and make sure they stay fixed.

+2

 

[cardpa]

You make an interesting point. There comes a point in every coach's tenure where the players feel they have the coach figured out and they know what to expect and where they think they can cut some corners. BA this year is acting very much like a coach who knows he doesn't quite have the team's attention the way he had it previously. As a former coach, I know what that feels like and it is extremely stressful. it's kind of like waking up one morning and realizing that the woman you love isn't looking at you quite the same way---and you wonder if you could ever get her feelings back. Even though BA will never admit this---you start to doubt yourself.

But---when I look at coaches like Tom Coughlin, who grinded it out year after year---through up years and down years---it's not like his approach ever changed. The thing is---seasons take funny turns---and as BA says at the end of each year, the next team will be different and will have a different kind of chemistry.

BA didn't suddenly get dumb. But there are things he will learn from the struggles this year. For one, one has to wonder whether as a paly caller he really has time to argue with the refs as long as he does. When BA is on a roll, you can always see it in his sideline demeanor---he's quietly studying his play list and is think 2 to 3 plays ahead. The other thing is calling players out publicly---not a good practice and he is smart enough to know that. He can lose a locker room that way. Plus, with as mistake prone as his offense has been, I bet he's wondering about his hands off approach in the off-season and with giving Carson Palmer scheduled days off during game weeks (understandable given his age, but tough when the offense as a whole isn't clicking).

Sometimes to take two steps forward, one needs to take a step back.

I hear you Mitch, after 20+ years of coaching soccer there were years where you wondered why a team did not perform to my expectations. You would sit down and try to analyze it down to individual players and the formation, etc. ad nauseam. After awhile you begin to realize what the real problem is and it varied. Sometimes you actually overrated your team and they are not quite as good as you thought and their commitment to the sport wasn't quite what you thought it was and sometimes you realize you yourself needed to make some changes with a different approach and critique. You can and do doubt yourself.

Your points about BA are very real in my opinion. Since the team is not playing to expectations as a coach you sometimes try to take on more than you should instead of using the available help you have around you and trusting them. I have no problem giving BA another year to use this season as a learning experience. Take the off season to reassess and come out ready to roll next season. I also hope they look at the draft in a different way and try to select players that can immediately contribute instead of projects with a high ceiling but questionable work ethic and passion.

 

[cardpa]

Theory gets reconfirmed week after week:

When your team has unfixed weaknesses, those weaknesses will continue to resurface each week to cost you wins.

As in Carson's miscues, poor ST play & inconsistent WR production.

Each week, we say "we can't let these things happen any more" and then we let them happen again and again.

Take away the 3 ST screw ups and we're 7 - 2 - 1. Mix in a slightly less erratic Carson Palmer and, at the very least, that 7-win record looks more secure. It's just that simple.

But not if we play down to our weaknesses. Gotta fix them and make sure they stay fixed.

Jeff, I think you summed it up in a nutshell. The question is can they fix those weaknesses or do they not perceive them as weaknesses? I remember some HC once stating that special teams can affect a game by 20-25% and are many times game changing plays. I just don't remember who it was.