Things that I could see happening in the draft

[KingLouieLouie]

Keep in mind KLL, NFL contracts are not garuanteed, and neither is Warners ability to stay healthy. That being said, when you look at how this team is being built , this may be the last year we draft this high. I doubt we will be able to get a franchise QB with say, the 24th pick next year. Also, with the escalation of the salary cap not only this year but over the next few years , 5M for a back-up qb is not so outlandish, especially if he can come in and give your team a real chance to win.
ANd yes, I agree about investing in the OL. Not only should we go out and get LeCharles Bentley, but we should try and get BAckus too.

Yeah... I realize that all contracts arent guarantee and somewhat addressed that in my response to Pariah on this thread (which was probably more than likely submitted after you sent yours).....

Anyways.... I've expressed several times (moreso in '03-'04 while I still was under the screen-name of KingLouieLouie) how I believe the term "Franchise QB" is overrated..... The Steelers didnt advance extremely far because of "Big Ben", but mainly due to their fantastic OL, sensational RB combo of Parker/Bettis, a stellar WR corp, and a TE who will be a major threat for years to come.... Also, their defense is among the top of the league.... Conversely, I dont necessarily classify Hasselbeck as a "Franchise QB" either, but again here's an instance in which their MVP RB carried them into the Promise Land along with a veteran savvy OL, and a pretty solid defense......

Warner still has about 2 years left of above average play and w/in that time-frame the Cardinals should address solidifying the long-term situation at QB..... If they dont invest heavily onto the OL, then we all know this team will be doomed..DOOMED......

 

[overseascardfan]

Does anyone think that if we do not trade for Culpepper that we might take Omar Jacobs at 10? He had an excellent career at BG and is sort of a Culpepper clone, strong arm, scrambling ability, MAC QB. With guys like Lewis, Edge, Alexander, Williams, and Green available we could add one of them or go after a lesser know Jonathan Wells.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

KLL, that's just simply untrue.

Since 1990.... Andre Ware, Todd Marinovich, Dan McGwire, David Klingler, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer (never has lived-up to a 6th overall pick), Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Joey Harrington..... The jury is still out on those selected since '03..... I know some have shown amazing potential thus far, but several have been already limited by injuries...

Also, the operative term I used was most...not all.. because I know Peyton Manning, Steve McNair, Carson Palmer, and even Dave Carr have already lived-up to their potential, but havent single-handily lead their team to the Super Bowl as of yet..and if you have that designation as a "Franchise QB", that should suggests that they should have the ability to elevate their respective teams on their own.....

Of course there are those QB who arent necessarily busts, but havent fully lived-up to their potential promise either...and Michael Vick would definitely be included in that group......

 

[Tashunca]

Reggie Bush will be the first player drafted. It may not be Houston but none the less Bush will go first.
The 2 guys that sacre me the most is OT Justice with all his past problems and Vince Young. He was amazing in the BCS game but you have to remember that he has college talent chasing him around. Remember this. Not one of the playoff team qb's are known as running qb's. Not they don't "move around", but basically are pocket passers. Young will not consistently do what he did in college when he faces NFL defenses.
I love Lendale White, but the CArdinal Brass will be hard pressed not to take a QB like Cutler or Lienart if they slip to #10. Sooner or later we need a long term solution at quarterback.

Young would be the perfect player to revive the "Run & Shoot" offense (re: June Jones, Gerry Glanville etc.) Remember that's what got Warren Moon all of his success.

 

[Pariah]

Also, the operative term I used was most...not all..

How about RBs? I could list a ton of bust RBs. Linemen? You could make a list as long as your arm. WRs? Same thing.

There are risks when drafting high in the first round. As a Cardinals fan, I know I'm preaching to the chior.

Take a look at the probowl rosters and overwhelmingly the QB position is stocked with 1st round picks.

 

[DevilPrideBAS]

Just a thought i had...If Derek Hagan somehow slipped to our second round pick, would you snatch him up with that pick??

I wouldnt hesitate.

 

[Shane]

Just a thought i had...If Derek Hagan somehow slipped to our second round pick, would you snatch him up with that pick??

I wouldnt hesitate.

Nope that is an absolute waste of a 2nd rounder considering we have Q and Fitz locked up for the next 4 years.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

How about RBs? I could list a ton of bust RBs. Linemen? You could make a list as long as your arm. WRs? Same thing.

There are risks when drafting high in the first round. As a Cardinals fan, I know I'm preaching to the chior.

Take a look at the probowl rosters and overwhelmingly the QB position is stocked with 1st round picks.

Yeah.. but no RB enters the draft being the "Franchise Player"...the one that will be their team's savior...the cornerstone of the organization..etc.....

I agree that there have been busts in terms of RBs, however, they dont necessarily receive the expectations that a 1st round QB does..and most RBs make an immediate impact (are instantly at their full potential) compared to several QBs that take quite awhile.... Also, the QBs that were selected in the 1st round in this year's Pro Bowl havent advanced their teams that far into the post season... Those like Michael Vick havent elevated their team as what was initially anticipated/projected of them.....

OL is definitely the highest risk (2nd only to QB) to draft in the 1st round... again.. it usually takes about 3-4 years for one to become an NFL calibre OL... only exception of someone making such an immediate impact would perhaps be Willie Roaf.....

WR.......I'll agree that is mixed, however, the busts wouldnt exceed that of a QB.....

Also.. you talk about the Pro Bowl QBs.. they all benefit from either having a solid OL and a pair of RBs which enable them to spread the field.... I just hope the Cardinals address both of those needs... if so.... I wouldnt be shocked if Warner will take them extremely far.....

I know you're an avid fan of Cutler... what necessarily makes him better than the QBs from previous years or ones that will be available in the '07 draft..and so forth? Sometimes the media just creates a frenzy of these "cant miss" QBs...and in the process they get overly hyped..and never quite live-up to it.....

 

[Pariah]

Yeah.. but no RB enters the draft being the "Franchise Player"...the one that will be their team's savior...the cornerstone of the organization..etc.....

I would disagree. One needs look no further than this year and Reggie Bush. Or, Ricky Williams (remember, the Saints traded away the entire draft for him).

I know you're an avid fan of Cutler... what necessarily makes him better than the QBs from previous years or ones that will be available in the '07 draft..and so forth? Sometimes the media just creates a frenzy of these "cant miss" QBs...and in the process they get overly hyped..and never quite live-up to it.....

I'm an avid fan of getting a QB in here that can be our guy for the rest of his career. He's not necissarily better than 1st rd QBs of recent years' past--I wanted those guys, too (namely, Leftwich and Roethlisberger...and last year I would have had to seriously think about passing on Rogers).

I think taking a QB in next years' draft is even more of a crapshoot. I things go as planned, we won't be drafting in the top-20, right? And, I'd rather have a guy that's been riding pine and becoming NFL acclimated by the time we'll need him in '07. Time is short because we've pissed away opportunities at least 2 of the last 3 years, IMO.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I would disagree. One needs look no further than this year and Reggie Bush. Or, Ricky Williams (remember, the Saints traded away the entire draft for him).
I'm an avid fan of getting a QB in here that can be our guy for the rest of his career. He's not necissarily better than 1st rd QBs of recent years' past--I wanted those guys, too (namely, Leftwich and Roethlisberger...and last year I would have had to seriously think about passing on Rogers).

I think taking a QB in next years' draft is even more of a crapshoot. I things go as planned, we won't be drafting in the top-20, right? And, I'd rather have a guy that's been riding pine and becoming NFL acclimated by the time we'll need him in '07. Time is short because we've pissed away opportunities at least 2 of the last 3 years, IMO.

I think the Saints were insane when they made that Ricky Williams trade, which signifies why they've been inept for several years!

Seriously though....I agree... I hope the Cardinals dont draft w/in the top-15 next year, but.... is Cutler a 10th pick overall calibre type of QB? Or.. is he someone that typically could be available in the lower half of the 1st round any other year... I guess...my argument is... just dont draft a QB that high for the sake of selecting one... dont be pressured into it based on how limited that might be available at that position one year.... Is next year's draft class going to be deeper that one who could have been potentially available in the top 15 this year be there in the latter portion of the 1st round next year? Also.. how's the FA QB market supposed to be like after the '06 season? I know this year is one of the best FA markets for RBs......

I just dont feel though that either Ben or Byron would have excelled here in AZ.... Byron already has been quite injured for the Jaguars, so imagine him w/this patched-work OL of the Cardinals... Also, I just dont see Ben being completely all that special.... We can all agree that he's more of a product of the Steelers system (especially benefiting from that OL) compared to him being the primary factor as to why they've gotten as far as they have.....

Another reason why Im against selecting a QB to just "ride the pine" for even one year is because you're squandering too much money on him..and Green can ill-afford to draft someone who wont make an immediate impact this year since the Bidwills will become more and more impatient w/him if he doesnt produce a winner this year while entering Glendale.....

I personally feel that the Cardinals can acquire some average QB..and would thrive if they do heavily address the need at OL and of course add a RB.... I think Lendale White is more special at his postion compared to Cutler at his respective position...... Not too many RBs can combine his weight/speed effectively, but there are many QBs out of there that can compare to Jay Cutler....

 

[kerouac9]

Also, the QBs that were selected in the 1st round in this year's Pro Bowl havent advanced their teams that far into the post season... Those like Michael Vick havent elevated their team as what was initially anticipated/projected of them......

Stop saying this. Saying that David Carr has "lived up to his advance billing" as a number one QB while ignoring Donnie McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, and slighting Michael Vick seems like borderline racism.

McNabb has advanced his team to the NFC Championship game three times and gone to the Super Bowl once.

Vick has lead his team to the NFC Championship game once and the playoffs twice in the four seasons that he's started 8+ games.

Culpepper would have been the NFL MVP last season if Manning hadn't tossed 5,000 TDs.

Only 1 QB can win the Super Bowl every year, and some QBs win multiple ones. Have there been more than 38 Super Bowl-winning QBs? Brady has three, Montana has--what? Four?, Bradshaw has three or four, Aikman has at least a couple, Young has a couple, Elway has two... That's 16 Lombardi Trophies for 6 QBs. There are only 30 more, and I bet Bart Starr has a couple more, etc.

Saying, "Well, how good can they be if they haven't won a Super Bowl" is a reductionist criticism that's basically senseless.

 

[BigDavis75]

I think the Saints were insane when they made that Ricky Williams trade, which signifies why they've been inept for several years!

Seriously though....I agree... I hope the Cardinals dont draft w/in the top-15 next year, but.... is Cutler a 10th pick overall calibre type of QB? Or.. is he someone that typically could be available in the lower half of the 1st round any other year... I guess...my argument is... just dont draft a QB that high for the sake of selecting one... dont be pressured into it based on how limited that might be available at that position one year.... Is next year's draft class going to be deeper that one who could have been potentially available in the top 15 this year be there in the latter portion of the 1st round next year? Also.. how's the FA QB market supposed to be like after the '06 season? I know this year is one of the best FA markets for RBs......

I just dont feel though that either Ben or Byron would have excelled here in AZ.... Byron already has been quite injured for the Jaguars, so imagine him w/this patched-work OL of the Cardinals... Also, I just dont see Ben being completely all that special.... We can all agree that he's more of a product of the Steelers system (especially benefiting from that OL) compared to him being the primary factor as to why they've gotten as far as they have.....

Another reason why Im against selecting a QB to just "ride the pine" for even one year is because you're squandering too much money on him..and Green can ill-afford to draft someone who wont make an immediate impact this year since the Bidwills will become more and more impatient w/him if he doesnt produce a winner this year while entering Glendale.....

I personally feel that the Cardinals can acquire some average QB..and would thrive if they do heavily address the need at OL and of course add a RB.... I think Lendale White is more special at his postion compared to Cutler at his respective position...... Not too many RBs can combine his weight/speed effectively, but there are many QBs out of there that can compare to Jay Cutler....

First, I agree with you on not drafting a QB just for the sake.

I'm tired of people saying Ben is a product, he has carried that team these lase 8 weeks and has played almost 100% mistake free ball. The running game hasn't really been there and Ben has just torn Ds apart.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Look, I was on the Rothelisberger bandwagon harder than anyone else two years ago. But it's awfully hard to look at a pick like Fitzgerald and say "We should have taken XYZ instead", even if the other guy is a QB.

Larry Fitzgerald is a hall of fame talent well on his way to a 10,000+ yard career. Ben Rothelisberger is a solid QB who is everything the Steelers could have hoped for. Both teams made out. It's not like we passed on the QBs and drafted Anthony Bell. Those days are gone.

If Pitt wins the Super Bowl with Big Ben, then good for him and good for them. That doesn't mean that if the Cards have drafted Ben they'd be in the Super Bowl this year. With this line, Ben would be as likely to be in the hospital as in Detroit next week.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Stop saying this. Saying that David Carr has "lived up to his advance billing" as a number one QB while ignoring Donnie McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, and slighting Michael Vick seems like borderline racism.

First, I hope you retract your racism comment... I personally believe it's among of the most significant Cardinal Sins to accuse/suggest that someone had a racial connotation to what they posted... I'm the furthest thing from being racist, so that inference doesnt really bode well w/me....

I'll admit however that I did overlook McNabb (and not out of convenience) when I posted that previous message.... I'll also somewhat concede about Culpepper, however, it seems that there's a distinct chance that he wont fully recover from his injury and revert back to his prior form... which is quite a shame since he was starting to establish himself... However, his inclusion on the list as successful 1st round QB is only one mere addition, which doesnt fully counter how the majority of those deemed as potential "Franchise QB" lived-up to those expectations.....

McNabb has advanced his team to the NFC Championship game three times and gone to the Super Bowl once.

Vick has lead his team to the NFC Championship game once and the playoffs twice in the four seasons that he's started 8+ games.

I guess I judge Vick unfairly since I've drafted him the last 2 seasons in my Fantasy League anticipating him to fully live up to his amazing potential, but he obviously hasnt... It just seemed he even regressed more this past season and I hope he does because it would be quite a shame if everything that he has to offer isnt fully realized....

Culpepper would have been the NFL MVP last season if Manning hadn't tossed 5,000 TDs.

Only 1 QB can win the Super Bowl every year, and some QBs win multiple ones. Have there been more than 38 Super Bowl-winning QBs? Brady has three, Montana has--what? Four?, Bradshaw has three or four, Aikman has at least a couple, Young has a couple, Elway has two... That's 16 Lombardi Trophies for 6 QBs. There are only 30 more, and I bet Bart Starr has a couple more, etc.

Saying, "Well, how good can they be if they haven't won a Super Bowl" is a reductionist criticism that's basically senseless.

No.. my point essentially isnt senseless because most of the dubbed "Franchise QBs" didnt lead their team to the Super Bowl... Isnt that every team's objective? The teams are investing heavily on these "so-called" leaders of their roster, however, when most of them are released before their rookie contracts expire or never become a starter after they in fact expire just alarms me...... And adding Brady and Montana to your list really helps validate my point and somewhat detracts away from your argument since of course both of those werent drafted all too high, but managed to prove themselves at the highest level.....

It all comes down to the fact again.... the teams that have been winning in recent years have had solid contingent at the OL because they have continuity/cohesion... and what is a trend for most successful teams now is to have 2-featured RBs that both differ style from each other...if the Cardinals can replicate that with drafting Lendale White and have him complement JJ Arrington..that would be ideal...

'm tired of people saying Ben is a product, he has carried that team these lase 8 weeks and has played almost 100% mistake free ball. The running game hasn't really been there and Ben has just torn Ds apart.

The point here though is that he wouldnt have advanced as far w/out having that OL.... anywhere else (especially if he was the Cardinals QB this past season)..he would have been injured on a multitude of occasions which is the point that Ed Burmila went into complete detail on.... especially on the arugment that people would much rather have Ben than Fitzgerald.... Fitzgerald has been everything than expected..and even better.. however.... what is frightening is that him and Anquan will improve tremdendously if Green/Rowen are fully able to implement their offensive system better, which will happen with that upgrade to the OL and a legit running game that would help create the pass and spread both Fitz and Quan more open......

 

[Evil Ash]

Does anyone think that if we do not trade for Culpepper that we might take Omar Jacobs at 10?

No, there is no chance that Dennis Green takes a franchise Qb in rd 1 this year. There is a small chance that he takes a franchise Qb in rd 2 (and I mean minimal).

After that however it will be BPA type philosophy.

Dennis Green needs to win and win now. He's going to take impact players that are going to help him now. A QB sitting on the bench holding a clipboard doesn't fit into the immediate impact category.

 

[Southpaw]

Good read Spank.

I am locked into your Houston scenario, especially if Dan Reeves runs the draft.

Ferguson is their best need and with the Jets pick he fits. With the Jets #2, they can fill another need. Jets could talke Bush ( even though Maroney is a better fit ) or take Cutler if they don't trade. He is Broadway Joe II.


Saints definitely need a QB , but an owner transplant makes more sense.


Buffalo may not be desperate at TE. They drafted Kevin Everett last year who did not play, on IR. They can go for one of the big tackles or a LB.

 

[Reddog]

Just a thought i had...If Derek Hagan somehow slipped to our second round pick, would you snatch him up with that pick??

I wouldnt hesitate.

After his Sr. Bowl week and game he won't even sniff the 2nd round.

 

[Southpaw]

Does anyone think that if we do not trade for Culpepper that we might take Omar Jacobs at 10? He had an excellent career at BG and is sort of a Culpepper clone, strong arm, scrambling ability, MAC QB.

Right now Omar Jacobs is a 3rd rounder at best.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Right now Omar Jacobs is a 3rd rounder at best.

And i think we should draft him if he is there......

Hes outta Delray Beach ya know Wally.......

 

[Stout]

No, there is no chance that Dennis Green takes a franchise Qb in rd 1 this year. There is a small chance that he takes a franchise Qb in rd 2 (and I mean minimal).

After that however it will be BPA type philosophy.

Dennis Green needs to win and win now. He's going to take impact players that are going to help him now. A QB sitting on the bench holding a clipboard doesn't fit into the immediate impact category.

This is so wrong on so many levels, I'm having to pick and choose where to start.

1-GREEN DOES NOT RUN THE DRAFT ALONE. Just because you say it does not make it so. I know you didn't say it, but you're giving Green ALL the power in your post. You are dead wrong, and you know it.

2-We have no idea what's going on behind closed doors. For all we know, if Green likes a kid, and wants him at QB, Graves may have given his blessing and given him an extra year to work with.

3-Green may have fallen in love with one of the QBs. If he likes him, he'll draft him. He's proven that with Culpepper.

4-Green has shown confidence in Warner and the team wants him back. Warner has proven he can run the offense, and even if you or anyone else doesn't agree, it seems like the front office does think this way.

I'm not saying Green WILL draft a QB. I doubt it, but you never know. To drone on over and over and over and over again, ad nauseum, that you KNOW Green won't do something is less convincing on a message board than if you were doing it perched on a pirate's shoulder.

 

[Assface]

Also, the QBs that were selected in the 1st round in this year's Pro Bowl havent advanced their teams that far into the post season... Those like Michael Vick havent elevated their team as what was initially anticipated/projected of them......

Stop saying this. Saying that David Carr has "lived up to his advance billing" as a number one QB while ignoring Donnie McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, and slighting Michael Vick seems like borderline racism.

McNabb has advanced his team to the NFC Championship game three times and gone to the Super Bowl once.

Vick has lead his team to the NFC Championship game once and the playoffs twice in the four seasons that he's started 8+ games.

Culpepper would have been the NFL MVP last season if Manning hadn't tossed 5,000 TDs.

Only 1 QB can win the Super Bowl every year, and some QBs win multiple ones. Have there been more than 38 Super Bowl-winning QBs? Brady has three, Montana has--what? Four?, Bradshaw has three or four, Aikman has at least a couple, Young has a couple, Elway has two... That's 16 Lombardi Trophies for 6 QBs. There are only 30 more, and I bet Bart Starr has a couple more, etc.

Saying, "Well, how good can they be if they haven't won a Super Bowl" is a reductionist criticism that's basically senseless.

Culpepper and McNabb aren't in this year's Pro Bowl. Vick didn't have a very good year and made it because the NFC is weak on healthy QBs this year.

 

[Southpaw]

No, there is no chance that Dennis Green takes a franchise Qb in rd 1 this year. There is a small chance that he takes a franchise Qb in rd 2 (and I mean minimal).

After that however it will be BPA type philosophy.

Dennis Green needs to win and win now. He's going to take impact players that are going to help him now. A QB sitting on the bench holding a clipboard doesn't fit into the immediate impact category.

I am in direct agreement with your thought. Green has to lock into a win now attitude or there will be no contract extension for him. I don't know that is what this team ultimately needs, Dennie needs to win now for his own health. I don't look for any rookies to be a prominent part of this team for the next year or two. If the Cards flop in 2006, Dennie will be fodder for the farm. He will have to win with his last 2 drafts and FAs.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I know perhaps this might be a moot point, however, would someone like Jay Cutler suit the offensive system that Green/Rowen are trying to implement? If so, then that would obviously speed up the development to the point in which it wouldnt take 2-years for him to become fully adjusted and make the full proper transition.... Otherwise, it would be senseless since again the Cardinals need someone who can indeed make that full impact...

I know though in the past that a QB playing the same system in college than the team he's drafted by doesnt necessarily signify success...the obvious example would be Andre Ware playing the run-and-shoot in Houston, but of course him never mounting-up to his Heisman level of play (but that was more of him lacking mentally compared to talent).......

Again, I feel it doesnt matter who the Cardinals QB is at this point until they finally do fortify that OL......