This organization is in a much better spot than a week ago

[dscher]

This. Mahomes looks great. But Kyler isn't Mahomes. Mahomes has size, arm strength, leadership ability, and isn't a running QB. But we'll see how he looks when everyone can triple cover Travis Kelce.

I keep wanting to say I'm done arguing this, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How are people this obsessed with Kyler? The narrative isn't even slight caution, he's just already the best QB we'll ever see.

Because you want to change peoples minds.. imo. that's why you cant get over it. I'll just give you this instead..

Why fight it when it's just a difference of opinion..? Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree on issues.. but that's my opinion.

 

[BW52]

Because you want to change peoples minds.. imo. that's why you cant get over it. I'll just give you this instead..

Why fight it when it's just a difference of opinion..? Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree on issues.. but that's my opinion.

Maybe Solar doesn`t want to join KMAC ( Kyler Murray Adoration Club)

 

[Solar7]

I thought the same thing until I WATCHED FILM OF MURRAY PLAY.

Murray isn't Vick. He isn't Cam Newton. He doesn't rely on his mobility. No indicator, nor does watching film show that he. Most of the time, he hangs around the pocket, maybe moves out and throws. This isn't a guy who is running up the gut and taking hits like RGIII does. His running is much more similar to Russell Wilson. He runs when there is an open lane and then slides before anyone can hit him 95% of the time.

His touch and feel as a passer are tremendous. I will say elite for a college QB. It is the product of many years of reps and practice. There is a reason that Steve Keim, a veteran NFL GM and scout watched film of Murray and saw the exact same thing I see, Pro football Focus sees, and what many veteran talent evaluators see.

If Murray does fail, it will be because of the mental side of the game. Physically, he's as talented as any QB that has ever entered the NFL. Yes he's not tall, but we've seen Hall of Fame guys over the past few decades that aren't tall. That's why you see legendary GMs like Gil Brandt now say that they don't believe height matters in the NFL. For many years, teams had a silly bias against shorter guys, but that bias has been proven wrong.

Injury concerns? Why? He has never had any injury concerns.

Height concerns? Why? He has never shown any reason to be concerned about his height.

Mental side? That affects everyone and could be his undoing, just like it has been many QBs undoing.

Why do you keep claiming I haven't watched film? I really don't get it. I have.

Listen, I have said time and time again that Kyler is full of tantalizing ability. If we had tabbed him later in the draft, I'd be very excited about the high upside. What I don't believe in was his safety over the defensive players.

RG3 wasn't looking for contact. I think that's silly. But, you don't run for 1,000 yards without looking to run from time to time. I'm not going to continue to battle point after point. You admit to the potential mental concerns with the game, and that's my biggest fear.

Injury concerns? Because freak injuries happen when you have a garbage offensive line and your game breaking speed is part of the reason you're so alluring, I'm sorry. This guy is going to get hit early and often.

Height concerns? He has a 13 game sample size. It's not fair to say height has "never" been an issue when he's been playing against subpar college talent, with all of the talent in the world around him. When his mobility is restricted and he has to play strictly from the pocket at 5'10? That's concerning, man. We will see.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Why do you keep claiming I haven't watched film? I really don't get it. I have.

Listen, I have said time and time again that Kyler is full of tantalizing ability. If we had tabbed him later in the draft, I'd be very excited about the high upside. What I don't believe in was his safety over the defensive players.

RG3 wasn't looking for contact. I think that's silly. But, you don't run for 1,000 yards without looking to run from time to time. I'm not going to continue to battle point after point. You admit to the potential mental concerns with the game, and that's my biggest fear.

Injury concerns? Because freak injuries happen when you have a garbage offensive line and your game breaking speed is part of the reason you're so alluring, I'm sorry. This guy is going to get hit early and often.

Height concerns? He has a 13 game sample size. It's not fair to say height has "never" been an issue when he's been playing against subpar college talent, with all of the talent in the world around him. When his mobility is restricted and he has to play strictly from the pocket at 5'10? That's concerning, man. We will see.

So if he was picked later you would be excited to have him, but because he was picked with the first pick you are not excited to have him? Maybe I didn't understand that properly, but it definitely seems like that is what you said.

 

[Solar7]

So if he was picked later you would be excited to have him, but because he was picked with the first pick you are not excited to have him? Maybe I didn't understand that properly, but it definitely seems like that is what you said.

Yes and no. It's easier to accept a guy with some flaws at a later pick. Later on, you can accept a really low floor if the ceiling is super high. At #1, not only should the floor be high, the ceiling should be high too. I feel like we passed on two really elite defensive players that fill that high floor, high ceiling gap.

In a situation where we didn't have a chance at those two, the Murray pick would be a lot easier to swallow.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Why do you keep claiming I haven't watched film? I really don't get it. I have.

It doesn't seem like you have based on your comments

Listen, I have said time and time again that Kyler is full of tantalizing ability. If we had tabbed him later in the draft, I'd be very excited about the high upside. What I don't believe in was his safety over the defensive players.

Safety is for losers or for the Patriots. And you don't get a talent like Murray in today's NFL later in the draft. Once Russell Wilson showed how foolish most of us were (including the Seahawks who thought Wilson would be a really good backup), the price for a Murray type QB skyrocketed. It opened most peoples minds to the concept of nontraditional QBs excelling in the NFL. While they aren't too similar, it likely helped Mahomes go higher as well (I loved Mahomes, my favorite QB prospect ever).

RG3 wasn't looking for contact. I think that's silly. But, you don't run for 1,000 yards without looking to run from time to time. I'm not going to continue to battle point after point. You admit to the potential mental concerns with the game, and that's my biggest fear.

Where did I say he was "looking for contact"? RGIII didn't avoid contact. There is a distinction there. Murray looks to avoid contact, it's quite obvious. He slides, he runs out of bounds, and he goes down before linemen are going to sack him.

Injury concerns? Because freak injuries happen when you have a garbage offensive line and your game breaking speed is part of the reason you're so alluring, I'm sorry. This guy is going to get hit early and often.[/QUOTE

You can't plan around freak injuries, hence why they are called "freak" injuries. If injuries are such a concern, moving on from Rosen was even more paramount since he had two injuries in college, one that was a season ender. I'm concerned with guys like Luck that don't look to avoid big hits. Look at Palmer, didn't avoid hits, and sure he made big plays, but he got injured almost every year he played for the Cardinals. It's absolutely ridiculous that you think size = resistance against injuries. Its just not true and over and over again, big pocket passers ALSO get hurt. I'd rather have a guy that genuinely tries to avoid contact.

Height concerns? He has a 13 game sample size. It's not fair to say height has "never" been an issue when he's been playing against subpar college talent, with all of the talent in the world around him. When his mobility is restricted and he has to play strictly from the pocket at 5'10? That's concerning, man. We will see.

LOL just 13 games? That's not true. He played his frosh year as well, and also played like 45 games in HS behind a huge OL as well. We also have Brees, Wilson, Mayfield, and a host of other shorter QBs that aren't struggling to throw behind OL. It's an outdated and disproven concern. Do you also believe that black people genetically cant swim as well? Asians can't see as well? My point in those two examples is that sometimes perceived physical limitations just aren't true, and yet people believed those limitations for a long time. QBs don't see over lines, they see around them. They see through the gaps.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes and no. It's easier to accept a guy with some flaws at a later pick. Later on, you can accept a really low floor if the ceiling is super high. At #1, not only should the floor be high, the ceiling should be high too. I feel like we passed on two really elite defensive players that fill that high floor, high ceiling gap.

In a situation where we didn't have a chance at those two, the Murray pick would be a lot easier to swallow.

I recently watched a video about whether or not Murray should go #1 and Marcellus Wiley (guy was a pretty good NFL defensive lineman) said that you should always take the upside on a QB over a safer D-lineman pick because regardless how good that D-lineman is he will only have so much of an impact on winning and losing games. Where as the QB has the most impact on winning and losing and until you have your future secured at that position you should take the guy with upside at that position.

Here is the video as well:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media