This Team-----My Take

[Catfish]

After watching two games in this new 2017 season, I have concluded the following:


1. This team is completely disjointed, and seriously appears to lack solid direction not only from its
veteran players, but from the coaching staff itself. I find it strange that, the starters for the most part experienced a complete country club atmosphere during training camp and pre-season games; (most getting only a handful of plays in two of the five games, and none in some of the others). Now we are seeing them play just as they have been conditioned to play thus far. Coaches venting their anger on the starters after each series that they come off the field without producing scores. It seems to me that the old adage, 'junk in---junk out', is completely applicable to this situation. Meanwhile players are getting hurt from lack of conditioning, (especially under hitting conditions).

2, This roster is getting very old, and the injury plague that accompanies it is in proportion to the age of the roster. In addition, players like Smoke, who came into the league undersized and totally untested against big tall defenders who are as agile as he is, should have been expected to incur bodily damage from playing and practicing against the much bigger, faster, and stronger defenders in the NFL.
Even, David Johnson appears to have made a big mistake by shedding ten additional pounds from his last year's playing weight, and may have also become one of the oft-injured youngsters on this roster because of the coaching staff's total disdain for TEAM STRETCHING AND CONDITIONING before games and practices. The reliance of players to seemingly condition themselves is frustrating to me and has been for some time now. That is one situation where TEAM is stressed very strongly and it is missing from our program here.

3. I have serious doubts as to Carson Palmer's ability to perform as a leading quarterback in this league any more. In each of the past three years he seems to have become more immobile in the pocket, and lacks any ability to get himself out of trouble with the pass rush now. While I do like the players on our offensive line, I am disgruntled that Iupati has developed an apparent chronic tricep problem-----which eliminates him from competing seriously for a position, and what's more, since the move to the right side, Veldhere seems to be content to simply go thru the motions, and is no longer an active force in either the pass or run blocking. It seems to me that if both of those two were competing
hard for starting positions, we would be pretty well set all along the O-line and its meshing of players to step in and compete with each other, and to spell each other in case of an injury. Meanwhile Palmer's footwork and his throwing technique is seriously lacking and is evidenced by his throwing high, low, in front of, or behind players at least half the time. Many of those throws were so far off target that they were not catchable. A goodly number have already been intercepted, and our ability to pass for TDs has
been curtailed greatly.

4. The run game is defunct for now. What was damaged by David Johnson's loss, is being augmented
by some of the worst play calling that I have witnessed from a Bruce Arians offense thus far this season.
Simply watching the offense go run, run, pass, punt------series after series is totally disheartening to me. It would seem that BA is still locked into what he BELIEVES should occur on the field, but can't happen due to lack of certain players in the roster, and because of diminished ability of others on the roster. I foresee no real good coming from this season at all. Stanton has already proven over and over
that he is OK one week as a starter, but may be terrible the next and so on. BA doesn't appear to be the kind of guy who would bench Palmer for Blaine Gabbert to see what, (or if), he can contribute at this point. I am not enthused by looking ahead to the remainder of this season.

 

[daves]

After watching two games in this new 2017 season, I have concluded the following:

1. This team is completely disjointed

Agreed, clearly.

2, This roster is getting very old, and the injury plague that accompanies it is in proportion to the age of the roster.

Agreed, naturally.

In addition, players like Smoke, who came into the league undersized and totally untested against big tall defenders who are as agile as he is, should have been expected to incur bodily damage from playing and practicing against the much bigger, faster, and stronger defenders in the NFL.

Hmm, John Brown's sickle-cell anemia has nothing to do with his size and didn't seem to be an issue until last year (when he was also dealing with a cyst on his spine). I'm not sure whether he was even aware of the condition when he was drafted - i certainly never heard about it until last year. Now he is clearly having issues recovering and remaining available, but i don't think that has anything to do with playing against bigger, faster, and stronger defenders.

Even, David Johnson appears to have made a big mistake by shedding ten additional pounds from his last year's playing weight

I would love to hear an explanation of how his weight loss led to his dislocated wrist. Come on, this is nonsense.

and may have also become one of the oft-injured youngsters on this roster because of the coaching staff's total disdain for TEAM STRETCHING AND CONDITIONING before games and practices.

More nonsense. If anything, in avoiding more serious injury last season in L.A., he exhibited exceptional flexibility and conditioning.

As has been pointed out multiple times by multiple posters, (a) we now know that static stretching does NOT prevent injury, and (b) the coaching staff has instructed the players to warm up on their own time, so that they're ready to maximize their time available for organized team practice activities, which are limited by the CBA. In no way does this imply that the staff has a "disdain" for conditioning!

The reliance of players to seemingly condition themselves is frustrating to me and has been for some time now. That is one situation where TEAM is stressed very strongly and it is missing from our program here.

As you just said, the team is old and more frequent injuries are to be expected. Any connection to the strength and conditioning program is tenuous at best.

4. The run game is defunct for now. What was damaged by David Johnson's loss, is being augmented by some of the worst play calling that I have witnessed from a Bruce Arians offense thus far this season.
Simply watching the offense go run, run, pass, punt------series after series is totally disheartening to me.

Well then start paying more attention to the games, because your perception does not match reality.

Vs. the Lions, on 1st down the Cardinals ran 8 times and passed 26 (!).
On 2nd down they ran 7 times and passed 15.

Vs. the Colts, on 1st down the Cardinals ran 15 times and passed 12.
On 2nd down they ran 7 times and passed 14.

It would seem that BA is still locked into what he BELIEVES should occur on the field, but can't happen due to lack of certain players in the roster, and because of diminished ability of others on the roster.

So what's Arians supposed to do, given that his players can't execute plays? Run more without David Johnson, or pass more while Palmer is (optimistically) in a funk?

I foresee no real good coming from this season at all. Stanton has already proven over and over that he is OK one week as a starter, but may be terrible the next and so on. BA doesn't appear to be the kind of guy who would bench Palmer for Blaine Gabbert to see what, (or if), he can contribute at this point. I am not enthused by looking ahead to the remainder of this season.

Yep, it's a bummer watching the team not play well, but i'm not convinced that lack of conditioning or poor play calling are the issues. As you said, the team is old, Palmer is out of sync, and now almost half the starters are out on offense.

Not much to do but keep watching, rooting, and hoping for the best.

...dave

 

[Catfish]

Brown's chronic injury, (both last year and this year), has been soft tissue
strains and pulls, quads. Yes he has cycle cell anemia, along with a goodly number of black people---------he has almost certainly known that for years. Many play with that problem. He played in a very small school in college------Pittsburgh State in Kansas----------trust me he never played against NFL size or caliber corners there--------and has been pushing to stay on the field ever since we drafted him. He was a #3 behind Fitzgerald and Floyd his rookie year, and was never covered by the best corners in the league until last year.

So far as David Johnson is concerned------he had a superb year last year and was ten pounds heavier. He took it upon himself to lose ten more pounds over the off season. I am only saying that he may have caused his muscles to be too brittle, (which may lead to him being often injured like so many others who have done that). He messed with success on the highest level and may now being paid the price for that. Only time will tell that. Just my opinion, but it is at least as viable as your completely discounting me for even having one and calling it foolish for having an opinion of my own.

 

[BigRedRage]

Personally, I dont think stretching has to do with anything and I am hoping that a heavier dose of CJ in the running game nets us more yards and more playaction opportunities. I expect us to look a lot better offensively against the cowboys. Time will tell.

I am obviously not as doom and gloom as others though.

 

[daves]

Just my opinion, but it is at least as viable as your completely discounting me for even having one and calling it foolish for having an opinion of my own.

Catfish, i enjoy your posts and would never call it foolish for you to have an opinion.

But you wrote:

David Johnson appears to have made a big mistake by shedding ten additional pounds from his last year's playing weight, and may have also become one of the oft-injured youngsters on this roster because of the coaching staff's total disdain for TEAM STRETCHING AND CONDITIONING before games and practices.

If you're going to stand by your opinion that Johnson "appears to have made a big mistake" and "may have also become one of the oft-injured youngsters on this roster" "because of the coaching staff's total disdain for TEAM STRETCHING AND CONDITIONING" - based on the fact that he dislocated his wrist in a high-speed head-on collision after catching a deep pass... i'll stand by my opinion that it's nonsense.

And if you're going to stand by your opinion that the offense goes "run, run, pass, punt------series after series" in the face of the reality that it does not - i'll stand by my opinion that it's nonsense.

This team has some major issues, but stretching and conditioning and predictable play calling were not issues when the team won 10, 11, and 13 games between 2013-2015. They're not the problem now.

The team is old and yes, the younger guys John Brown and J.J. Nelson are under-sized and will likely be oft-injured as a result. Stretching and conditioning has nothing to do with that.

Furthermore, stretching is one thing, and conditioning is another. Static stretching has been debunked as to its ability to prevent injuries. And i've heard only good things about the strength and conditioning program.

I agreed that the offense is "disjointed", but i'm not convinced it's because there was a "complete country club atmosphere during training camp and pre-season games". That may have been true for Palmer and Fitz, but the rest of the starters saw a normal preseason workload, and besides, the preseason games are huge part of what the fans see, but a tiny part of the actual work the players put in before the season starts. Palmer and Fitz have been through a lot of training camps and games and don't need to practice getting ready for the "gameday experience". Maybe they shouldn't have taken Wednesdays off during the preseason, but then again, had they worked every day, maybe they'd be injured or Palmer would have a tired arm by now. They're old and something's gotta give and there's nothing that can be done about that until their replacements are on the team. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

...dave

 

[cardncubfan]

Brown's chronic injury, (both last year and this year), has been soft tissue
strains and pulls, quads. Yes he has cycle cell anemia, along with a goodly number of black people---------he has almost certainly known that for years. Many play with that problem. He played in a very small school in college------Pittsburgh State in Kansas----------trust me he never played against NFL size or caliber corners there--------and has been pushing to stay on the field ever since we drafted him. He was a #3 behind Fitzgerald and Floyd his rookie year, and was never covered by the best corners in the league until last year.

So far as David Johnson is concerned------he had a superb year last year and was ten pounds heavier. He took it upon himself to lose ten more pounds over the off season. I am only saying that he may have caused his muscles to be too brittle, (which may lead to him being often injured like so many others who have done that). He messed with success on the highest level and may now being paid the price for that. Only time will tell that. Just my opinion, but it is at least as viable as your completely discounting me for even having one and calling it foolish for having an opinion of my own.

This is all speculation though not opinion. You think he may have muscular injuries due to his weight loss which isn't the case. He had a freak injury. Plain & simple. Btw, I've never heard of muscles being brittle.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

He took a hit that dislocated his wrist. 10 less lbs distributed throughout his entire body did not cause that.

 

[Catfish]

Daves-----from the Cardinals very first play from scrimmage, they went run, run, pass, punt-------------the second series they again went run, run, pass punt----------the first six scripted plays went EXACTLY as I said they had.

The fact that you can't seem to understand that today's athletes often condition themselves to the point where they are so muscle tight that when
they are forced beyond what would normally be painful------their muscles now tear or worse yet, rip tendons from the bone-------because they have no elasticity left in them, is quite common. That is what MAY have occurred with David Johnson-------we won't know for a while now.

The fact that BA does NOT want to waste time on team stretching prior to games, only exacerbates this type of injury,,,, and it certainly does nothing
to assist with commoradarie of the team like other teams get from stretching together before games.

My points ARE just as valid as yours. The fact that you chose to call me foolish because of my opinion----------only shows that you are more interested in demeaning the poster than you are in discussing different possibilities of why our team is performing so poorly as it is. NOW I recall one of the biggest reasons for not posting last season at all. This is how the board became to the extent that I chose not to come here any longer because it is no longer enjoyable to do so. You are ever so entitled to your opinion and I would NEVER call you foolish for stating your opinion.

I hope you have a great season demeaning other posters here, as you obviously love doing that. I have a life that is far richer than coming here so that I have to endure such small mindedness. I choose to ENJOY the Cardinals and I can certainly do that without coming here.

 

[BigRedRage]

Daves-----from the Cardinals very first play from scrimmage, they went run, run, pass, punt-------------the second series they again went run, run, pass punt----------the first six scripted plays went EXACTLY as I said they had.

The fact that you can't seem to understand that today's athletes often condition themselves to the point where they are so muscle tight that when
they are forced beyond what would normally be painful------their muscles now tear or worse yet, rip tendons from the bone-------because they have no elasticity left in them, is quite common. That is what MAY have occurred with David Johnson-------we won't know for a while now.

The fact that BA does NOT want to waste time on team stretching prior to games, only exacerbates this type of injury,,,, and it certainly does nothing
to assist with commoradarie of the team like other teams get from stretching together before games.

My points ARE just as valid as yours. The fact that you chose to call me foolish because of my opinion----------only shows that you are more interested in demeaning the poster than you are in discussing different possibilities of why our team is performing so poorly as it is. NOW I recall one of the biggest reasons for not posting last season at all. This is how the board became to the extent that I chose not to come here any longer because it is no longer enjoyable to do so. You are ever so entitled to your opinion and I would NEVER call you foolish for stating your opinion.

I hope you have a great season demeaning other posters here, as you obviously love doing that. I have a life that is far richer than coming here so that I have to endure such small mindedness. I choose to ENJOY the Cardinals and I can certainly do that without coming here.

To be fair, daves doesn't really do that. I don't see the conversation as being overly negative, just debated. It's a shame if you take it so personally as your presence is valued but this is also a place to discuss and debate ideas and topics. Daves made some very good points with very good research on his reply

I'm wondering if you have read up on stretching and also read about how the players do stretch... Before practicing instead of it being part of practice. I also do not believe stretching had to do with anything on this team. I'm has been discussed a lot on here.

Now people becoming too lean and tearing because of it, I totally buy. I do not however expect that it truly mattered on DJ's injury even though I do enjoy blaming vegan diets for his injury. I do have concerns if his smaller statue will lead to similar results on the field. He is noticably smaller this year.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[daves]

Daves-----from the Cardinals very first play from scrimmage, they went run, run, pass, punt-------------the second series they again went run, run, pass punt----------the first six scripted plays went EXACTLY as I said they had.

Catfish, according to the play-by-play on NFL.com, you are just plain wrong:

1st Quarter
Arizona Cardinals at 15:00
2-R.Sanchez kicks 65 yards from IND 35 to end zone, Touchback.
1-10-ARI 25(15:00) (Run formation) 69-W.Holden reported in as eligible. 33-K.Williams right tackle to ARI 27 for 2 yards (93-J.Sheard).
2-8-ARI 27(14:24) (Run formation) 3-C.Palmer sacked at ARI 20 for -7 yards (51-J.Simon).
3-15-ARI 20(13:39) (Shotgun) 3-C.Palmer pass incomplete deep left to 13-Ja.Brown [96-H.Anderson].
4-15-ARI 20(13:34) 2-A.Lee punts 49 yards to IND 31, Center-46-A.Brewer. 11-Q.Bray ran ob at IND 47 for 16 yards (35-E.Penny).
[....]
Arizona Cardinals at 07:38
2-R.Sanchez kicks 61 yards from IND 35 to ARI 4. 33-K.Williams to ARI 18 for 14 yards (47-D.Daniels).
1-10-ARI 18(7:32) (Run formation) 69-W.Holden reported in as eligible. 33-K.Williams right tackle to ARI 22 for 4 yards (95-J.Hankins; 99-A.Woods).
2-6-ARI 22(6:48) (Shotgun) 69-W.Holden reported in as eligible. 33-K.Williams up the middle to ARI 23 for 1 yard (93-J.Sheard).
3-5-ARI 23(6:05) (Shotgun) 3-C.Palmer pass incomplete short left to 13-Ja.Brown (31-Q.Wilson).
4-5-ARI 23(6:00) 2-A.Lee punts 43 yards to IND 34, Center-46-A.Brewer. 11-Q.Bray to IND 40 for 6 yards (27-T.Branch).

That's run, pass attempt (sack), pass attempt (incomplete), punt. Then run, run, pass attempt (incomplete), punt.

Your contention that the offense went "run, run, pass, punt------series after series" could hardly be farther from the truth. In fact, here's how the rest of the game went:

1-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-FG

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (INT)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-unclear (fumbled snap led to 1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (TD)

1-RUN
2-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-PASS
4-FG

1-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-PASS
2-RUN
3-KNEEL
4-FG

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-RUN
4-FG

So out of 24 times starting on 1st down, the Cardinals went run-run-pass-punt exactly ONCE. And ONE other time they went run-run-pass-FG. One other time they went run-run-pass (1st down) and then there was the run-run-fumble for a 1st down - hard to know whether that would've been a run-run-pass since it was 3rd & 1 on the fumble play.

Now go through the entire play-by-play for the Lions game, and you will find that the Cardinals went run-run-pass-punt exactly ZERO times. They did go run-run-pass-FG once though.

But hey, you're entitled to your "opinion" about that. You have alternate facts, i guess.

The fact that you can't seem to understand that today's athletes often condition themselves to the point where they are so muscle tight that when they are forced beyond what would normally be painful------their muscles now tear or worse yet, rip tendons from the bone-------because they have no elasticity left in them, is quite common. That is what MAY have occurred with David Johnson-------we won't know for a while now.

The fact that BA does NOT want to waste time on team stretching prior to games, only exacerbates this type of injury,,,, and it certainly does nothing to assist with commoradarie of the team like other teams get from stretching together before games.

My points ARE just as valid as yours. The fact that you chose to call me foolish because of my opinion----------only shows that you are more interested in demeaning the poster than you are in discussing different possibilities of why our team is performing so poorly as it is.

Yes, i guess i just don't understand anything, unlike you. You are blaming David Johnson's dislocated wrist, and perhaps John Brown's sickle-cell anemia (?!), on lack of stretching. I call that OPINION nonsense. That is very different from calling you foolish. Please re-read what i wrote and i hope you will realize that you are way off-base.

NOW I recall one of the biggest reasons for not posting last season at all. This is how the board became to the extent that I chose not to come here any longer because it is no longer enjoyable to do so. You are ever so entitled to your opinion and I would NEVER call you foolish for stating your opinion.

I hope you have a great season demeaning other posters here, as you obviously love doing that. I have a life that is far richer than coming here so that I have to endure such small mindedness. I choose to ENJOY the Cardinals and I can certainly do that without coming here.

Great - enjoy your life, dude!

...dave

 

[Cheesebeef]

Catfish, according to the play-by-play on NFL.com, you are just plain wrong:


That's run, pass attempt (sack), pass attempt (incomplete), punt. Then run, run, pass attempt (incomplete), punt.

Your contention that the offense went "run, run, pass, punt------series after series" could hardly be farther from the truth. In fact, here's how the rest of the game went:

1-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-FG

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (INT)

1-RUN
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-unclear (fumbled snap led to 1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS (TD)

1-RUN
2-PASS (1st down)

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-PASS
4-FG

1-PASS (1st down)

1-PASS
2-PASS
3-PASS
4-PUNT

1-PASS
2-RUN
3-KNEEL
4-FG

1-RUN
2-RUN
3-RUN
4-FG

So out of 24 times starting on 1st down, the Cardinals went run-run-pass-punt exactly ONCE. And ONE other time they went run-run-pass-FG. One other time they went run-run-pass (1st down) and then there was the run-run-fumble for a 1st down - hard to know whether that would've been a run-run-pass since it was 3rd & 1 on the fumble play.

Now go through the entire play-by-play for the Lions game, and you will find that the Cardinals went run-run-pass-punt exactly ZERO times. They did go run-run-pass-FG once though.

But hey, you're entitled to your "opinion" about that. You have alternate facts, i guess.



Yes, i guess i just don't understand anything, unlike you. You are blaming David Johnson's dislocated wrist, and perhaps John Brown's sickle-cell anemia (?!), on lack of stretching. I call that OPINION nonsense. That is very different from calling you foolish. Please re-read what i wrote and i hope you will realize that you are way off-base.



Great - enjoy your life, dude!

...dave

LOL... Dave being accused of running other posters off the board is LAUGHABLE! Dave usually banters with everyone, Kool-Aid or Darksider, but he's never pushed someone into a hissy-fit before!

Just because he picked your faulty premise apart with rocket science like precision isn't a reason to take your ball and go home @Catfish. I mean... Dave IS a rocket scientist! If you're gonna come with a completely flawed argument, that big brain of his is going to pick you apart.

 

[MrYeahBut]

:Sigh:

 

[Russ Smith]

Brown's chronic injury, (both last year and this year), has been soft tissue
strains and pulls, quads. Yes he has cycle cell anemia, along with a goodly number of black people---------he has almost certainly known that for years. Many play with that problem. He played in a very small school in college------Pittsburgh State in Kansas----------trust me he never played against NFL size or caliber corners there--------and has been pushing to stay on the field ever since we drafted him. He was a #3 behind Fitzgerald and Floyd his rookie year, and was never covered by the best corners in the league until last year.

So far as David Johnson is concerned------he had a superb year last year and was ten pounds heavier. He took it upon himself to lose ten more pounds over the off season. I am only saying that he may have caused his muscles to be too brittle, (which may lead to him being often injured like so many others who have done that). He messed with success on the highest level and may now being paid the price for that. Only time will tell that. Just my opinion, but it is at least as viable as your completely discounting me for even having one and calling it foolish for having an opinion of my own.

If I were a judge I'd say overruled, strictly conjecture.

When Brown first started having issues last year, SEVERAL NFL players turned out to have had the same issue, it just wasn't heavily publicized. It had nothing to do with where he went to college, he's got a condition that leaves him prone to such nagging injuryes. It should be noted that Brown reportedly had muscle pull issues in college too, it was noted in the draft scouting reports. It's quite common for small sprinter types.

With DJ the only explanation I've seen where going vegan could be connected was GatorAZ's brilliant joke about him having to cut up all those veggies(which got a big laugh from me).

If you go in believing the Cards don't know anything about conditioning it's then easy to conclude the injuries are due to that and not just due to the nature of football.

UCLA had a basketball player named Malcolm Lee about 10 years ago now, his entire career at UCLA was plagued with cramping issues. People were constantly blaming UCLA trainers, give the guy more electrolytes, eat bananas etc. Lee got the NBA, was a bit player and his career was plagued by leg injuries, pulls etc. He had minor knee surgery at UCLA and another minor surgery in the NBA. People I know who follow ex UCLA players closely say Lee was diagnosed with sickle cell too, he's actually half black and half asian and apparently UCLA tested him for all sorts of things in college and it wasn't until years later and a much more sophisticated test that it came out. Lee was a terrific athlete and in great shape, John Brown is very similar IMO.

 

[ajcardfan]

daves already took care of my response. There is no problem with the opinion "we stink". But, the "facts" you state should actually be true. I don't think that is too much to ask for.

 

[Catfish]

Daves--------I acknowledge that I was incorrect about the play calling. You more than supported your stance.

You have missed what is bothering me most however, in that instead of simply arguing your point, you chose instead to refer to me as foolish-------thus attacking me personally instead of simply attacking my (faulty) opinion. I would never have done that to you ------- and that is my contention for being disappointed in the development of this thread. That is one of the main reasons that I stopped posting here last year, as it seemed like demeaning the poster had become more important than arguing against his or her logic in far too many cases. THAT is what I found to be ruining my enjoyment of this site then, and apparently it continues still. THAT is why I will refrain from being a regular poster here.

I still retain my belief in coaches failing to carefully guide new players in their overtraining and tendency to allow their young bodies to become too hardened in their zest to excel. I still maintain that this occurs far more frequently than most would believe, and that is has ruined, ( and continues to ruin), some young players because of it.

I hope you enjoy the season and that the Cardinals continue to bring fun and enjoyment to the Red Sea from the Desert.

 

[cardncubfan]

Daves--------I acknowledge that I was incorrect about the play calling. You more than supported your stance.

You have missed what is bothering me most however, in that instead of simply arguing your point, you chose instead to refer to me as foolish-------thus attacking me personally instead of simply attacking my (faulty) opinion. I would never have done that to you ------- and that is my contention for being disappointed in the development of this thread. That is one of the main reasons that I stopped posting here last year, as it seemed like demeaning the poster had become more important than arguing against his or her logic in far too many cases. THAT is what I found to be ruining my enjoyment of this site then, and apparently it continues still. THAT is why I will refrain from being a regular poster here.

I still retain my belief in coaches failing to carefully guide new players in their overtraining and tendency to allow their young bodies to become too hardened in their zest to excel. I still maintain that this occurs far more frequently than most would believe, and that is has ruined, ( and continues to ruin), some young players because of it.

I hope you enjoy the season and that the Cardinals continue to bring fun and enjoyment to the Red Sea from the Desert.

Can you point out where he called you foolish? Because I can't find it anywhere.

 

[Mitch]

My two cents:

One of the most difficult things about writing passionate and opinionated posts, is receiving a response that comes across as being disdainful, abruptly dismissive and condescending. There is a more respectful way of challenging a person's opinions than calling them "nonsense" or "ridiculous" or "a waste of time." I can't speak entirely for Catfish, but I know the feeling so well of having poured my thoughts and feelings into a post and getting what feels to be a personal attack in return. It can be very demoralizing.

In my interactions with daves I have always found him to be respectful and thus his reaction to Catfish's post surprised me because I have never seen his tone be this seemingly vitriolic.

I do not think it was daves intention to belittle Catfish, but I understand why Catfish felt that way...if that makes any sense.

Both Catfish's post and daves' response were worthy posts. if we can just phrase our responses with a little more respect, we all win.

I have never known a football coach who doesn't believe in team organized stretching and warmups. It's kind of bizarre. And when the team continues to get riddled by injuries, it leaves all of us grasping for straws. Thus I can understand both points of view, very easily.

I hope we all can continue to disagree as often as we need to, but that we can treat each other with due respect.

This board is great because of posters like Catfish and daves. Personally I would hate to lose either one of you. At the end of the day, we are all Birdgangers.

 

[BigRedRage]

Daves posts were great, if it means we lose a poster, it is what it is. Maybe Daves should post more.

 

[Russ Smith]

Can you point out where he called you foolish? Because I can't find it anywhere.

He didn't he said the response was nonsense.

And that's not the same thing, even Albert Einstein occasionally said things that were nonsense.

It's entirely possible to say things that are nonsense without being a fool I think Catfish just misread Daves intent, which is easy to do on boards.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I have a life that is far richer than coming here so that I have to endure such small mindedness. I choose to ENJOY the Cardinals and I can certainly do that without coming here.

You post stuff on a message board, it will be replied to. Its your choice to keep going back and forth with the guy, and its your choice to get upset about it.

This is supposed to be fun, and if you are not having fun, then you have a choice to do whatever you want.

Thus my opinion of the situation is if you are not having fun, then leave and stop bullying Daves just for talking about your post, and debating the points.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Daves posts were great, if it means we lose a poster, it is what it is. Maybe Daves should post more.

+1.

Keep it going Daves, do not allow guilt trips to deter you from enjoying a good debate about something.

 

[Catfish]

For those of you defending Daves------------he knows that his original post to this thread called me "just plain foolish"------------that is no longer there now, but Daves knows it and so do I. As I said, I had forgotten how bad this site had become in that regard------his reminder of it jolted me back to reality very quickly. Posters on this site had become so blatantly critical of each other that MOST posts degenerated into contempt or one-upmanship which led to vicious in-fighting with many threads being hijacked by combatants, even though they had nothing to contribute to the original post for the sole purpose of combat between boorish and impolite posters. I had a goodly number of my posts hijacked in that manner, and even some monitors were taking part in the activity.

The wonderful originators of this site were very specific about how they wanted the posters here to deal with each other, and for years most were very polite and supportive of each other. Ultimately that disappeared however, and there remain a few who contributed greatly to that cause.

Daves knows that he referred to me as "just plain foolish", and while that is not terribly condescending when compared to what HAD BEEN OCCURRING HERE, it certainly was improper and Daves knows it. Those of you who are rushing to defend him, can't know what or how he originally had worded his response to my thread. Were I one of you---------I would be careful about rushing to judgement in his defense. Granted, it might have been just a simple judgement mistake on his part, but the fact that the original wording has changed, and that Daves has chosen to come across as "never would have called anyone foolish" speaks of choosing to deny his mistake, and instead, he has chosen to act as if it did not occur. THAT is what bothers me. So long as that attitude prevails, then it is apparent to me that people here STILL do not understand being polite when debating posts. That is all I have to say about this entire thread.

 

[Mitch]

You post stuff on a message board, it will be replied to. Its your choice to keep going back and forth with the guy, and its your choice to get upset about it.

This is supposed to be fun, and if you are not having fun, then you have a choice to do whatever you want.

Thus my opinion of the situation is if you are not having fun, then leave and stop bullying Daves just for talking about your post, and debating the points.

It's not fun for anyone to have one's thoughts called non-sense. There is a kinder way of phrasing disagreements, that are more in keeping with the rules of the board.

 

[BigRedRage]

I think this board is great

 

[MrYeahBut]

The first time you take something personal on a message board, you're toast.

btw, I hate everyone.