This train has come off the tracks

LVCARDFREAK

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And the conductor is Dennis Green. Most of us knew it for a long time, but I was one who did not want to make a coaching change during the season. It may now be inevitable, and I, for one, would not be against it.

However, I do not want to see Clancy or anyone else from this staff take over, which is my biggest fear. They take over and we have anouther McGinnis situation.

I don't know who we get to coach this team, but it appears DG is not the one to right this ship. I harkin back to the McGinnis era again, when, for different reasons, he lost this team and they mailed it week after week. This team is not just losing now, but I fear we are gonna start seeing them getting really blown out by teams who we have more talent than (Oakland, GB, Detroit, SF, etc)

Couple of things to keep in mind however:

1. Firing midseason does effect a quality coaches decision to come on baord with this franchise. A Mid season firing is not only a firing but a slap in the face. It says ownership couldnt last the season with you, it was so bad. Coaches dont like the fact that they may get fired midstream.

2. Ownership- Lots of cap space, new stadium. Same old Cards. I wont get into this much, but suffice to say if any of you dont think ownership has a hand in the win-loss record or the success on the field, then I wont be able to change your mind.

3. I said this before and I will say it again. Fire a staff now and you are looking at least 2 more years of ineptitude from this team before the light even begins to shine again. Hell the oline alone will take 2 off seasons and 2 drafts to fix. 4-12, 6-10 records for 2007/2008...bet on it

4. Culture of losing. Some people dont believe in it, but it is true. The 'curse' most of you speak about is actually the inability for this team to win, the lack of confidence before ever a snap is taken, and the constant mindset of "here we go again" Teams dont lose 17 and 20 point leads in the the 4th quarter often, if ever. The cards have done it twice this season.

5. Sexy Free Agents is not what we need. I still believe James will eventually be a great P/U but this oline is sooo bad, his impact cant be felt. Those of you blaming James for his lack of production obviously dont watch football outside of the Cards. The guys is a stud, has proven it, and in switching teams didn't just "lose' his talent. We need depth at CB, oline (all spots and starters) LB, FS, and even TE. Dont complain when the Cards dont sign the McNabbs or Mannings of the world, we need the nickel backs, back up centers, starting RT, etc. Drafting and relying on a rookie to start and be productive (outside a top 10 pick) is a risky and dangerous proposition.

I say Green has to go. I have been hesitant in the past, but he has lost this team, and something has to give. I dont know who the Cards will get, but understand this is quickly becoming the place "where coaches come to die" Whomever is at the helm next year, wont have success until some of the things mentioned above change for good....
 

Shane

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#3 is totally incorrect. teams can be turned around right away. been done many times and was dont this year by more than 1 team. See Jets and Saints. It can happen. #3 is just an excuse for further losing.

A coaching change must be made right IMO. With the talent and cap space this team had, new stadium, there will be quality coaches that would give it a go.
 

conraddobler

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At this point I think DG is more or less begging to be let go, he's suffering but of course not enough to resign and forgo the pay he's due.

I say we keep him and rachet up the suffering to levels that will better persuade him.
 
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LVCARDFREAK

LVCARDFREAK

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#3 is totally incorrect. teams can be turned around right away. been done many times and was dont this year by more than 1 team. See Jets and Saints. It can happen. #3 is just an excuse for further losing.

A coaching change must be made right IMO. With the talent and cap space this team had, new stadium, there will be quality coaches that would give it a go.

Not with the choices of coaches you are going to get if we fire DG mid season. It can happen, but this oline is at least a draft and a FA class away from being good. And thats not considering the FA class this year which is bad.

Who on this oline are you gonna keep as our cornerstone? Davis? Wells? Ross? At least 4 new starters and some quality backups. Gonna get all those in 1 off-season?
 

vinnymac

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this team has taken underachieving to entirely new level. this is just like what dan synder has done if not worst. this team should be rolling toward the playoffs. instead they are looking at one another wondering what is going on and no one has an answer. when that happens it is time to get a different coach. right now you have nothing else to lose. let green finish the season out and start looking for canidates to replace green.
 

Shane

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Not with the choices of coaches you are going to get if we fire DG mid season. It can happen, but this oline is at least a draft and a FA class away from being good. And thats not considering the FA class this year which is bad.

Who on this oline are you gonna keep as our cornerstone? Davis? Wells? Ross? At least 4 new starters and some quality backups. Gonna get all those in 1 off-season?

It would be tough. But could be done none the less. We most certainly could get a big name coach too IMO if we went after one.
 

vinnymac

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Not with the choices of coaches you are going to get if we fire DG mid season. It can happen, but this oline is at least a draft and a FA class away from being good. And thats not considering the FA class this year which is bad.

Who on this oline are you gonna keep as our cornerstone? Davis? Wells? Ross? At least 4 new starters and some quality backups. Gonna get all those in 1 off-season?

right now i cant' think of an o-lineman to build around. usually you build around the left tackle and center. since the cardinals are not very good at eithier position, it looks like an entire make over. maybe wells would be better serve at the lt position instead of guard.

how many of you remeber that steve looney having been offered a o-cordinator position after he signed with the cardinals. you think he trying to get fired so he doesn't have to be here again.
 

DATZONABOY

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Shouldnt We Value A Rt More Than A Lt, Considering Matt L Is Left Handed?
 

kerouac9

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#3 is totally incorrect. teams can be turned around right away. been done many times and was dont this year by more than 1 team. See Jets and Saints. It can happen. #3 is just an excuse for further losing.

A coaching change must be made right IMO. With the talent and cap space this team had, new stadium, there will be quality coaches that would give it a go.

The Saints were a talented team before, but are you really going to offer up the Jets as an example of a coach "turning around" a franchise? Yes, they're 4-3 right now, but their wins were against Tennessee, Buffalo, Miami, and Detroit, who make up four of the six worst franchises in the NFL right now (including the Cardinals and Raiders). In their first real test against a playoff-caliber team playing good ball (the Pats and Colts still haven't gotten untracked), they lost 41-0 to the Jaguars.

The Jets are an interesting story, but the reason that you're not hearing anything about them is because they have maybe the softest schedule in the NFL right now. They may be 5-3 after next week, but they finish the season @NE, v.CHI, and @MIN. It's likely that they'll go 9-7 or even 10-6, but they're going to get their doors blown off them in the playoffs because they'll have only faced a handful of quality opponents.

They play the NFC North and AFC South, and play in the AFC East. All of those divisions have stinky, stinky teams. The Jets may end up being this season's version of the 1997-98 Phoenix Cardinals.

On the bright side, who's looking forward to the nine thousand "What this team really needs to do is change their mascot to something that belongs in the desert" calls on sports radio this week? :wave:
 

Sandan

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Next years FAs are likely to be real bad with the increase in cap space
 

MadCardDisease

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The Saints were a talented team before, but are you really going to offer up the Jets as an example of a coach "turning around" a franchise? Yes, they're 4-3 right now, but their wins were against Tennessee, Buffalo, Miami, and Detroit, who make up four of the six worst franchises in the NFL right now (including the Cardinals and Raiders). In their first real test against a playoff-caliber team playing good ball (the Pats and Colts still haven't gotten untracked), they lost 41-0 to the Jaguars.

At least the Jets can beat crappy teams. We can't even do that!
 

Cheesebeef

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Next years FAs are likely to be real bad with the increase in cap space

well then, it's a good thing we conserved that cap space in order to have it in the future when the FA class is going to suck, rather than spend it during laast offseason's FA class. (you know, when there was actually talent there).
 

Sandan

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Nothing like as much as you would have us believe.

Thast's the difference, you think our OL could have been solved this offseason, I don't
 

conraddobler

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Nothing like as much as you would have us believe.

Thast's the difference, you think our OL could have been solved this offseason, I don't

That reasoning is like speeding up when you know you can't avoid a wreck.
 

Cheesebeef

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Nothing like as much as you would have us believe.

Thast's the difference, you think our OL could have been solved this offseason, I don't

You keep projecting these exaggerations on me - I think it's because you really have no argument here. I've never said we could have "solved" anything. I don't think we could have made the best Oline in the league, but you're out of your gourd if you don't think we couldn't have gotten ANYONE to make this line at least a little better. They're the worst O-line in the league, after being the worst O-line in the league last year and ALL WE DID IN FA WAS SIGN A GUY FROM THE 2ND WORST O-LINE IN THE LEAGUE. That's not even trying to make things better, all the while sitting on 10 million bones.
 

conraddobler

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Mine or his ?

Yours, I just don't like that line of thinking at all, we could not have totally revamped it no but we could have had a better one than we fielded without hurting ourselves in the future.

We are going to be sitting on an immense amount of cap room with literally no one to spend it on.
 

Cheesebeef

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Nothing like as much as you would have us believe.

Thast's the difference, you think our OL could have been solved this offseason, I don't

and I'm not sure why you just decided on focussing just on the O-line. We're still missing a starting LBer and CB depth, both of which we could have gotten in last year's FA (and actually had interviews scheduled, which were mysteriously canceled after Edge signed. I wonder what that reason was?)
 

conraddobler

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and I'm not sure why you just decided on focussing just on the O-line. We're still missing a starting LBer and CB depth, both of which we could have gotten in last year's FA (and actually had interviews scheduled, which were mysteriously canceled after Edge signed. I wonder what that reason was?)

When I see this team sitting with a dangerously low cap reserve for possible injuries, then I'll feel we did all we could.

I want to be the team that sweats that for a change.
 

conraddobler

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BTW this thread's title is a bit late, I'd say we Wylie Coyote'd it out of the gate and did the train going off the unfinished bridge routine back at the Rams game, this game was the poof at the bottom.
 

MrY

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BTW this thread's title is a bit late, I'd say we Wylie Coyote'd it out of the gate and did the train going off the unfinished bridge routine back at the Rams game, this game was the poof at the bottom.

Maybe, like Wylie, we need to order (1)ea ACME Offensive Line, complete with backups
 
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