THIS was all they asked of D'Antoni?? What a baby!

[mojorizen7]

I'm suggesting that S. Hunter in 04-05 vs the SHAQ that I believe we're gonna get next season is pretty much a wash....but i'd rather have 04-05 Hunter.
Again,comparing the two really isn't fair but the point of my post is that IMO D'Antoni's inaugural squad was/is better than the squad we've got today.....therefore the expectations of the new coaching regime should NOT be set as high(initially) in comparison to the talent-stacked rosters that D'Antoni enjoyed during his FULL tenure here.

 

[ARZCardinals]

The coach won more games in the past 4 years than any coach who's ever coached the Suns....Mike was right to give them the finger. Good coaches don't grow on tree's. Look for the Suns to go downhill. A good coach is like a good teacher...the students will work harder and become stronger with a better teacher. There's a reason the AP teacher teaches AP....it's because they are better instructors.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mojorizen7, if I understand it correctly, the Suns fired D'Antoni because he couldn't win the big one. However now it will take the Suns 3-4 years of re-positioning for a title run to even sniff the big one. Then you mention D'Antoni had better players his first full season.

So what is it, the players or the coach? I'm guessing you would say both over the four year period. But don't forget D'Antoni installed the system that lead the Suns to averaging 58 wins over the past four seasons.

If D'Antoni would have less talent now with the Suns, this is all the more reason to have kept D'Antoni because the Suns are apparently not going to win the big one anyway until they re-position their team.

I contend that the Suns problems were a result of a rookie owner that fired a quality GM in BC and brought on another rookie GM to solve the Suns problems.

 

[nowagimp]

I agree with you on almost everything here, but I have to ask one thing:
Are you seriously suggesting that Steven Hunter, at any point in his career is better than Shaq at any point in his career?

LOL! Absence really does make the heart grow fonder, damn!

 

[Irish]

The 2004-05 team had a huge advantage over this year's team. No one had seen a team that played that way before (early threes off the fast break). D'Antoni revolutionized the game, but had more and more trouble as the rest of the league made adjustments.

The old rule was that nobody could win that relied so heavility on three point shooting. Now most teams are focused on making sure there aren't three point shooters left open even on the initial break.

 

[cly2tw]

Steven freaking Hunter? He always made our offense playing like 4 on 6, the way he interrupted it! Skinner is not returning for the very same reason.

 

[Irish]

Steven freaking Hunter? He always made our offense playing like 4 on 6, the way he interrupted it! Skinner is not returning for the very same reason.

I thnk Skinner will be back. Hunter could not play physical defense and was a below average rebounder. Skinner is limited on offense, but has not been accused of being constantly out of position like Hunter was.

 

[nashman]

mojo sorry you are on your own with this one, Steven Hunters best is worse than shaq now!

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Shaq > Skinner > Hunter

 

[mojorizen7]

mojo sorry you are on your own with this one, Steven Hunters best is worse than shaq now!

Really? Maybe altzheimers is creeping in on me.
I do expect another big drop-off in SHAQ's stamina and mobility next season though.
Still,even if Shaq>Hunter...my original point that D'Antoni began with a better team than(new coach)will next year i stand by.
Pending this summer's roster changes of course.
The expectations are too high right now IMO.

 

[Yuma]

Really? Maybe altzheimers is creeping in on me.
I do expect another big drop-off in SHAQ's stamina and mobility next season though.
Still,even if Shaq>Hunter...my original point that D'Antoni began with a better team than(new coach)will next year i stand by.
Pending this summer's roster changes of course.
The expectations are too high right now IMO.

I disagree. Shaq was playing basically on one hip when we got him, and he got stronger the longer our staff had to work on him. I imagine with a full off season to work on Shaq, we'll see a Shaq that we haven't seen for a couple of seasons.

 

[Louis]

Reinsdorf Believes Focus On 'D' Scared D'Antoni
May 24, 2008 - 4:53 pm
The Chicago Sun-Times -
Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf believes that one of the reasons coach Mike D'Antoni decided against joining the team was the team's focus on defense, according to The Chicago Sun-Times.

"The Knicks told him they loved him, and they rushed him like you rush for a fraternity, and we hadn't made up our minds," Reinsdorf told WMVP-AM (1000) in Chicago. "Is that indecisive? It may be, but this is a pretty important hire. This is a very important hire, particularly the way the Lottery worked out [with the Bulls getting the first draft pick]. I think it's only appropriate that we take our time. He said there was no rush, by the way. Then the next morning he went to the Knicks."

Reinsdorf recounted the conversation during the interview.

"The third thing [during the conversation] was the one knock on you is your teams don't play defense," Reinsdorf explained, recounting his interview with D'Antoni. "He said 'We haven't played much defense with the Suns because of the personnel we had. I did not think this team could defend.' "

" 'If you come to Chicago, the only way I see this wouldn't work out would be if we didn't play defense the way you say we're going to play defense,' " Reinsdorf told D'Antoni. "And then I think that scared him. I think that was the closer for the Knicks."

 

[Yuma]

Louis, I always take Reinsdorf with a grain of salt, but it is an interesting story. I'd like to see IF this team could play lock down defense. Basically, I think SA had longer stretches of stopping us, then we had stopping them on offense.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

He threw his players under the bus to mask his own stubbornness. That's almost as low as an owner spreading his sour grapes to the media about losing a coaching candidate.

Seems like they were made for each other.

p.s. when he was GM he could have gotten "defensive players" if he was so inclined. whataschmuck

 

[nowagimp]

p.s. when he was GM he could have gotten "defensive players" if he was so inclined.

you mean like JR, Raja, KT? Oh yeah .... short memory. ANd if youthink sarver wanted Bell .... well go ahead.

 

[Covert Rain]

Reinsdorf Believes Focus On 'D' Scared D'Antoni
May 24, 2008 - 4:53 pm
The Chicago Sun-Times -
Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf believes that one of the reasons coach Mike D'Antoni decided against joining the team was the team's focus on defense, according to The Chicago Sun-Times.

"The Knicks told him they loved him, and they rushed him like you rush for a fraternity, and we hadn't made up our minds," Reinsdorf told WMVP-AM (1000) in Chicago. "Is that indecisive? It may be, but this is a pretty important hire. This is a very important hire, particularly the way the Lottery worked out [with the Bulls getting the first draft pick]. I think it's only appropriate that we take our time. He said there was no rush, by the way. Then the next morning he went to the Knicks."

Reinsdorf recounted the conversation during the interview.

"The third thing [during the conversation] was the one knock on you is your teams don't play defense," Reinsdorf explained, recounting his interview with D'Antoni. "He said 'We haven't played much defense with the Suns because of the personnel we had. I did not think this team could defend.' "

" 'If you come to Chicago, the only way I see this wouldn't work out would be if we didn't play defense the way you say we're going to play defense,' " Reinsdorf told D'Antoni. "And then I think that scared him. I think that was the closer for the Knicks."

Best Part. "I did not think this team could defend".

It would have been nice if he at least tried to coach defense. In 7 seconds or less it was clear that he didn't spend time on defense. According to Kerr, he also felt the same way.

This is also in complete contrast to D'Antoni's earlier statement that this team played better defense then most teams based on the teams wins per season.

D'Antoni is a good offensive coach who will turn around the NY and probably turn them into a playoff team. However, this guy will never win an NBA title. Never. He either can't coach or doesn't know how to coach defense.

I am still thankful for what Coach D did. He put us back on the map again after the CB years. I am thankful for that. However, it's time to move on.

 

[Irish]

This discussion gets distorted. In 2003-04, the Suns held their opponents to 44.6% shooting. In 2004-05 the Suns opponents shot 44.5%,

After that, the Suns opponent's shot much better

2005-06 45.4%
2006-07 45.7%
2007-08 45.6%

There is about 1% difference between top 5 and middle pack (Lakers were 44.5% last season and ranked 6th).

Some of problem even these stats have can be understood in terms of D'Antoni's reluctance to foul guys making layups. The impact of this on the stats may be bigger than most people suspect. Take last night's Cetlics / Pistons game.

In game 3, the Celtics shot 32 of 69 (46.4%) and 25 of 30 from the line.

In game 4, the celtics shot 21 of 66 (31.8%), but hit 31 of 39 free throws.

The extremely physical defensive style the Pistons used in game 4 led to a lot more fouls, but seriously disrupped the Celtics offense. Sheed and Rip both finished with 5 fouls while Prince, McDyess, and Hunter each had 4.

Being willing to foul a lot is something D'Antoni refused to do. For one thing, he lacked the depth. He hated losing his strong offensvie players to foul trouble. His style of wearing out opponent's slower players was build on keeping the game moving and not letting them rest while standing waiting for foul shots.

Obviously there is more to it than that. Nash is too small to be a good defender and Stoudemire too inconsistent. More emphasis on defense might have helped, but does not explain why the Suns were better on defense in 2003-04 and 2004-05 than later.

My suspicion is that the Spurs style was being copied by opponents in that they would post up. Marion required double team help and Amare was getting physically overwhelmed into fouling.

So while D'Antoni did not stress defense enough, I'm not sure he didn't care. It's just that he was not willing to sacrifice other sfuff to get improvements. But in the playoffs, that didn't get it done.

 

[Mulletino]

Steve Kerr would know Defense wins championships. He was part of the 1999 Spurs championship team.

 

[Irish]

Steve Kerr would know Defense wins championships. He was part of the 1999 Spurs championship team.

Kerr gets knocked when he says he wants more emphasis on defense by people saying he wasn't a good defender when he played. That's probably true, but he played on some very good defensive teams from "team" standpoint starting in the later years of the Jordan era.

Curiously enough, the Bulls were not a great defensive team in their first run, but far improved in their later runn as reflected by opponent's shooting percentage

1990-91 47.5%
1991-92 46.0%
1992-93 47.4%

1993-94 46.3% Kerr joined the Bulls
1994-95 45.7%

1995-96 44.8% Added Rodman
1996-97 43.6%
1997-98 43.1%

Spurs

1998-1999 40.2%
1999-2000 42.5%
2000-2001 41.9%
2001-2002 42.0%
2002-2003 42.7%

In his Bulls period, Kerr played over 1800 minutes until his last year in Chicago when his numbers fell to 1100 when he played only 50 games.

 

[Mulletino]

Kerr gets knocked when he says he wants more emphasis on defense by people saying he wasn't a good defender when he played. That's probably true, but he played on some very good defensive teams from "team" standpoint starting in the later years of the Jordan era.

Curiously enough, the Bulls were not a great defensive team in their first run, but far improved in their later runn as reflected by opponent's shooting percentage

1990-91 47.5%
1991-92 46.0%
1992-93 47.4%

1993-94 46.3% Kerr joined the Bulls
1994-95 45.7%

1995-96 44.8% Added Rodman
1996-97 43.6%
1997-98 43.1%

Spurs

1998-1999 40.2%
1999-2000 42.5%
2000-2001 41.9%
2001-2002 42.0%
2002-2003 42.7%

In his Bulls period, Kerr played over 1800 minutes until his last year in Chicago when his numbers fell to 1100 when he played only 50 games.

He might not have been a good defender, but as you can see 3 of the final 4 teams in the playoffs were the Celtics, Pistons, and Spurs. They are the top defensive teams.

Kobe will end up getting shut down by Boston.

 

[mojorizen7]

Steve Kerr would know Defense wins championships. He was part of the 1999 Spurs championship team.

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The SPURS suck. They're done.

 

[Mulletino]

You must be registered for see images

The SPURS suck. They're done.

I don't think they are. I think the Lakers lucked out because of Manu's ankle injury. If the Spurs would have had a healthy Manu, they would have beat the Lakers in the series.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think they are. I think the Lakers lucked out because of Manu's ankle injury. If the Spurs would have had a healthy Manu, they would have beat the Lakers in the series.

So what if the Lakers would have had a healthy Bynum? It looks like the Lakers are set for a run at several Championships... sad to say.

 

[Mulletino]

So what if the Lakers would have had a healthy Bynum? It looks like the Lakers are set for a run at several Championships... sad to say.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. Next year will tell. You also have to remember Spurs beat LA earlier in the year by over 20 and they had a healthy Bynum, but they didn't have Gasol. We'll just have to see what happens next year.