Thoughts on Dansby, Rolle, FO & Whiz and Mocks

[Crazy Canuck]

No, joe, that's not what I said. What I said was, I think Matt is eager to be a great t.v. analyst.

A great quarterback? That's still open to question.

... and that Matt is eager to be a great T.V. analyst is also an open question.

 

[john h]

Now that takes me back a few. One of the best Radio shows ever.

Muhaaaaaa Haaaaaah Haaaah Haaaah Haaaah? My family used to listen to that and it would scare us. We didnt want to go out after dark.

I did not know how to add the "laugh". Well done.

 

[WildBB]

I'm not sold either way on Davis. I throw out the NO game because of all the injuries.The GB game, sometimes games just turn into shootouts. There was alot of bad tackling in that game as well.On the other hand, he didn't show me anything that makes me think he'll be a good DC. I'm a firm believer that a coach is only as good as his talent.A bad coach can ruin good talent but a good coach can only marginally succeed with bad talent. The only excpetion i have really seen to that is in college bball with Bo Ryan at Wisconsin. How that guy continues to produce winning teams with that talent is beyond me.

I think Rolle comes back but you never know. The cards can't/shouldn't pay him 12 mill. Dansby will be let go without too much of a fight,i think. I was talking about it to a friend of mine last night and he pointed out, about Dansby, tha's what NE would do,let him go.Thanks for your time, see ya.I don't agree but that's probably the case.

Yup, it's the only way to stay competitive in this league now. Got to turn things over.

Agree with the rest too.

 

[WildBB]

Cards have needs in a variety of areas. ILB - not sure about the LB picked up in last years draft - injured all of this year. ILB must be taken care of - Porter is an OLB -so he won't do. Good ILB's are a dime a dozen...great ones are few...good will be good enough here...OT - Expect Gandy to be resigned. That'll ease concerns for me. DT - Robinson may be back...but no guarantee there...
CB - Someone to challenge McFadden for a starting job..

How about Hayes and Haggins inside. That should work for next season at least.

On the outside we need young legs, much like what Mathews and Orakpo brought as roookies. Hughes from TCU?

I expect them tho address CB in the 2nd round, early in this draft.

 

[kerouac9]

How about Hayes and Haggins inside. That should work for next season at least.

On the outside we need young legs, much like what Mathews and Orakpo brought as roookies. Hughes from TCU?

I expect them tho address CB in the 2nd round, early in this draft.

Neither of those guys can cover anyone coming out of the backfield, which is the biggest problem. Also, Haggans is the best veteran option that we have on the outside right now. After him, all we have is two second year players, one of which has never started a regular season game.

I think the Cards saw enough out of Toler to guess that he's going to push McFadden for that starting job. I hope the Cards draft a corner later in the draft, though.

 

[WildBB]

Neither of those guys can cover anyone coming out of the backfield, which is the biggest problem. Also, Haggans is the best veteran option that we have on the outside right now. After him, all we have is two second year players, one of which has never started a regular season game.
I think the Cards saw enough out of Toler to guess that he's going to push McFadden for that starting job. I hope the Cards draft a corner later in the draft, though.

Yeah, Davis and Brown who hasn't seen the field at all yet. We know that they'll bring in at least two more backers somewhere, somehow. Isn't there another Raven as an UFA? Anyway when we lose Dansby they may go the FA route or just take a 3rd round comp pick for next season and start stocking younger talent. All depends who's available and willing.

And yeah Haggins would be an outside backer first but could fill in - in a pinch. I believe he's done so allready a few times.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, Davis and Brown who hasn't seen the field at all yet. We know that they'll bring in at least two more backers somewhere, somehow. Isn't there another Raven as an UFA? Anyway when we lose Dansby they may go the FA route or just take a 3rd round comp pick for next season and start stocking younger talent. All depends who's available and willing.

And yeah Haggins would be an outside backer first but could fill in - in a pinch. I believe he's done so allready a few times.

But that's not your plan. Your plan is to start Haggans and Hayes on the inside and then throw Davis and Brown to the wolves along with whatever draft picks we get.

If we're starting from scratch and rebuilding the team, then I guess this is a good idea, but you're not going to win many games with that combination. Neither of those guys can stay on the field in third-down passing situations, for example. I'm not depending on any free agents of note coming in, because it's possible that Dansby is going to enjoy his time being wined and dined (as C. Pace did), and then sign 8 or 9 days into free agency, when the Cards can go into the market.

I'm fairly sold that Dansby's gone. I don't like it, but I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. But let's not pretend that we can plug Monty Beisel or Clark Haggans into Dansby's spot and everything's going to be all right.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

But that's not your plan. Your plan is to start Haggans and Hayes on the inside and then throw Davis and Brown to the wolves along with whatever draft picks we get.

If we're starting from scratch and rebuilding the team, then I guess this is a good idea, but you're not going to win many games with that combination. Neither of those guys can stay on the field in third-down passing situations, for example. I'm not depending on any free agents of note coming in, because it's possible that Dansby is going to enjoy his time being wined and dined (as C. Pace did), and then sign 8 or 9 days into free agency, when the Cards can go into the market.

I'm fairly sold that Dansby's gone. I don't like it, but I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. But let's not pretend that we can plug Monty Beisel or Clark Haggans into Dansby's spot and everything's going to be all right.

Given that Cody Brown missed all of his on field experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the team re-signs Okeafor as the vet on the weakside.

A contract similar to B-Train's with a few incentives.

This could give Cody a bit of time to settle in.

Davis would backup Haggans, and if we lose Dansby, that position becomes priority #1 in both FA and the draft - IMO.

If by some miracle we keep Dansby, then NT becomes my priority #1.

 

[lauraw]

Dansby and Rolle could be Toast as far as we go, so those 2 areas willbe adressed in FA and the DRaft at some point. We should lookto the Dline to let roam DD and CC, CB and QB w'in the 1st half of the draft, [if sam Bradford checks out I'd take a flyer on him in the 1-2 ro und.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I admire Whiz's patience...but the excuse thing is getting weak...like covering for Rackers saying it was Fitz's fault for calling the TO, and then his own fault for not getting Rackers more quickly onto the field. Puh--leaze.

The thing is, with some of the ways Whiz handles himself and with some of the decisions he makes, it makes you wonder just how committed to winning he is. Yes, I sense a burning desire in him to achieve...but no one will ever be able to convince me that appointing Bill Davis as the new DC and adding just one defensive free agent in Bryant Mcfadden, were the most comeptitive and aggressive moves the Cardinals could have made.

Whiz and the FO HAD to know they may have had ONE more chance with Warner. If this was their last ditch effort to win a Super Bowl, it was pretty weak.

And, quite frankly, if Whiz's team falls flat this year and is indeed the "same old Cardinals," his stock as a head coach will plummet...because the perception is, for right or for wrong, that the ONE huge decision Whiz made was tabbing Warner as the QB (which if you recall, to spite ESPN, he dragged it on to the last conceivable minute), that from there...it was Warner who led and taught this team how to win.

Adam Schefter of ESPN said it tersely the other day, "The only winning the Cardinals have ever done is with Warner."

I also find it curious that Whiz was boasting at the end of the year at how the team overcame the scrutiny of him hosting a "soft camp." But the reality is the Cardinals started the season soft and ended the season soft.

Thus we will find out this year just how much the Cardinals' recent success was because of the FO and Whiz or whether it was because of Warner.

Right now as I worry about another off-season of passive-aggressiveness from the FO and the coach, I am feeling like we are all going to cringe at the results next year. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

I cannot help but think this in a normal year...but now in an un-capped year with all the furniture changed, please tell me I am wrong, but I am feeling that the Cardinals' FO will be all the more deliberate, tentative and indecisive.

It's interesting to hear the disparity of Whiz's and Warner's tone when talking about Matt Leinart. Whiz is almost effusive in his "I believe in Matty" and Warner is cautiously hopeful. Big difference.

Yet, it was Whiz who convinced Brian St. Pierre he had a chance last year to unseat ML as the #2. Something is amiss. And, let's face it, we saw Leinart's performances...did they leave you feeling confident?

I must say I competely disagree with everything you say here.

The thing is, with some of the ways Whiz handles himself and with some of the decisions he makes, it makes you wonder just how committed to winning he is.

That quote right there is just laughable. I don't even understand how you could even suggest that.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think that what Rolle means is that he's not going to take less than $11 million up front on a new contract (or whatever he's due to make this year). That means that on an extension he's going to want that money guaranteed or coming in the form of salary + signing bonus.

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. That's what Fitz wanted two years ago, after all.

Yeah I think the main thing with Rolle like with so many others is he's saying what his agent is telling him to say because they have an agenda, to get more money and to get security. Rolle has apparently gotten himself into very big trouble with the IRS, if you read that Forbes story they're not just saying he made a mistake on his return, they're alleging outright fraud, huge contributions to hard to find churches and charities, listing his home address incorrectly, listing a copy shop as his business address for a business he took huge writeoffs on. He understated his income by 53% his first 2 years in the league and we're talking by several million dollars, which is why they want 2.2 million from him now.

We tend to hear that and see his contract and assume he can just write them a check for it but reality is he probably isn't close to being liquid enough to do that, like most athletes he has a much higher payroll going out than you'd expect.

So Rolle NEEDS to get a big payday this offseason and unfortunately it's going to work against him. He was better this year but not great, he makes big plays but is out of position regularly, he has played hurt but he's not in a position where he can set his price due to the whole NFL wanting him. He'll get offers but I think ultimately he'll find people see his financial situation as a negative he could be distracted by it.

I hope we retain him but largely because I'm not sold that Rashad Johnson is close to ready to replace him.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah I think the main thing with Rolle like with so many others is he's saying what his agent is telling him to say because they have an agenda, to get more money and to get security. Rolle has apparently gotten himself into very big trouble with the IRS, if you read that Forbes story they're not just saying he made a mistake on his return, they're alleging outright fraud, huge contributions to hard to find churches and charities, listing his home address incorrectly, listing a copy shop as his business address for a business he took huge writeoffs on. He understated his income by 53% his first 2 years in the league and we're talking by several million dollars, which is why they want 2.2 million from him now.

We tend to hear that and see his contract and assume he can just write them a check for it but reality is he probably isn't close to being liquid enough to do that, like most athletes he has a much higher payroll going out than you'd expect.

So Rolle NEEDS to get a big payday this offseason and unfortunately it's going to work against him. He was better this year but not great, he makes big plays but is out of position regularly, he has played hurt but he's not in a position where he can set his price due to the whole NFL wanting him. He'll get offers but I think ultimately he'll find people see his financial situation as a negative he could be distracted by it.

I hope we retain him but largely because I'm not sold that Rashad Johnson is close to ready to replace him.

Really, I don't think that $11 or even $15 million guaranteed on a five-year contract is going to be that big of a deal. Rolle isn't all the way there yet, but he had a borderline Pro Bowl season and he's far better than anyone who's going to be available in free agency.

The Cards gave Bryant McFadden a two-year, $10 million contract last year, and he's not close to the player that Rolle was the last two years. The Cards signed Travis LaBoy for $7.5 million guaranteed, and he was worth almost less than nothing. If I'd brought a sack belt to the practice facility, I would have replaced 80% of LaBoy's production.

 

[Russ Smith]

Really, I don't think that $11 or even $15 million guaranteed on a five-year contract is going to be that big of a deal. Rolle isn't all the way there yet, but he had a borderline Pro Bowl season and he's far better than anyone who's going to be available in free agency.

The Cards gave Bryant McFadden a two-year, $10 million contract last year, and he's not close to the player that Rolle was the last two years. The Cards signed Travis LaBoy for $7.5 million guaranteed, and he was worth almost less than nothing. If I'd brought a sack belt to the practice facility, I would have replaced 80% of LaBoy's production.

Oh I agree I guess I'm saying my view of it is tainted by history of guys like Jamir Miller who go into it thinking they're going to get "Ray Lewis money" and when they don't they don't take the best offer(ours) but take another offer to spite us. I think Rolle is going to find his market value is much lower than he thinks it is, I think some players think this uncapped year means salaries are going to skyrocket, and they probably won't, not for a guy like Rolle.

I hope he's smart enough to realize it's all posturing right now in the end his agent wants the biggest upfront money because a % goes in his pocket, and the Cards want the best deal for their longterm and that unless he just really wants to play in Florida(according to the Forbes story he lives in Granada Hills, CA now), it is not in his best interests to tick off the Cards.

 

[Duckjake]

Oh I agree I guess I'm saying my view of it is tainted by history of guys like Jamir Miller who go into it thinking they're going to get "Ray Lewis money" and when they don't they don't take the best offer(ours) but take another offer to spite us.

The problem with that line of thinking is that was 10 years ago. Cards payroll in 2000 was $58 million. Last year it was $116 million. In the interim we've had Leonard Davis, Calvin Pace and Antonio Smith get deals in amounts few on here thought they would receive and no one that I can think of end up like Jamir Miller.

Times have changed.