Thoughts on Player Rankings and The Cardinals' Draft

[Crazy Canuck]

Just because they did so in college, doesn't mean they will right away in the pros. In the pre-season before he got hurt, Cody Brown was not a factor in the 4 man rush. He was getting stopped in his tracks play after play. Now, the hope is he will become a factor, but at this point we do not know. Will Davis got his couple of good QB pressures this year from a two point stance from the far edge out of the base 3-4. He really didn't get many snaps and almost never had any out of a htree point stance. And Stevie Baggs hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

We are all hopeful they will develop...same with Mark Washington...but to head into the season without a more proven rusher like Joey Porter creates far too many uncertainties...and I guarantee you that Brandon Graham and Carlos Dunlap are stronger options than what we have on the other side...they have the right blend of quickness AND strength.

But, unless a Graham or Dunlap can actually play OLB, we are back to the "predator" system (B-Train/Laboy). The team, from what I gather, has dropped this approach in the Davis 3-4.

 

[Mitch]

But, unless a Graham or Dunlap can actually play OLB, we are back to the "predator" system (B-Train/Laboy). The team, from what I gather, has dropped this approach in the Davis 3-4.

Maybe the lack of a pass rush for the sake of "dropping this approach" had something to do with giving up 90 points in 2 playoff games...and a 99 yard drive to lose the Titans' game, etc.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cardinals need thicker DEs for the 4 man rush...which is why signing DE/OLB Joey Porter is so important. He would take Bertrand Berry's spot at RDE, and at LDE Clark Haggans was solid, but I think it would be wise for the Cardinals to use the #26 pick on a thick DE/OLB type to play opposite Porter in the 4 man rush. The players that I like best in that role: Brandon Graham (6-2, 270, Michigan), Carlos Dunlap (6-6, 280, Florida), Everson Griffen (6-3, 265, USC), Kao Misi (6-3, 263, Utah) and Jerry Hughes (6-3, 257, TCU)...in that order.

Mitch,
I almost didn't read this post once I saw you were using the ratings from that site. When I saw that others were responding I decided to review your post (I always do anyways) and see what I was missing. As usual very thought provoking info. My question is why do we need thicker DE's for the 4 man rush? Doesn't that take away one of the attributes of running a 3-4 scheme. If Berry is in the game it's a given (95%) of the time he is going to rush the passer. With a 3-4 you don't know which side the pass rush is coming from and how many.

I think Berry and Chike were kept because we were transitioning to the 3-4 and both players have pass rush skills. Going forward shouldn't the Cards acquire more true OLB's for depth and competition?

In addtion DD & CC while not pure edge pass rushers they are Fantastic at rushing the passer as 3-4 DE's, maybe the best in the league. Branch is also very good as a 3-4 DE pass rusher.

Since teams only have 53 roster slots and 45 (IIRC) on game day why would you add another "position" to the squad. NT, 3-4 DE, thicker DE, OLB, WILB, SILB. Now you have 6 positions in the front 7 of the D instead of 5 positions.

Well that is why I was excited about the Cards going to the 3-4. Berry and Okeafor and Pace seemed to be perfect for the OLB spots. But here we are two years later and we're still looking for a 3-4 OLB.

 

[WildBB]

Just because they did so in college, doesn't mean they will right away in the pros. In the pre-season before he got hurt, Cody Brown was not a factor in the 4 man rush. He was getting stopped in his tracks play after play. Now, the hope is he will become a factor, but at this point we do not know. Will Davis got his couple of good QB pressures this year from a two point stance from the far edge out of the base 3-4. He really didn't get many snaps and almost never had any out of a htree point stance. And Stevie Baggs hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

We are all hopeful they will develop...same with Mark Washington...but to head into the season without a more proven rusher like Joey Porter creates far too many uncertainties...and I guarantee you that Brandon Graham and Carlos Dunlap are stronger options than what we have on the other side...they have the right blend of quickness AND strength.

Did C Brown even see the field last pre-season? I thought he was out even before camp started. Anyway from what the Cards site is saying, is that the off season is doing wonders for this kid in the strength and conditioning program. He's the main atendee all off season. That's pretty good news for us, IMO.

I would stay away from Dunlap. Too many questions about him, his motor and motivation. He'd be a good 2nd round pick for whoever gets him there. No such questions about Graham. He'd be a solid addition, IMO. A possible three down player, unlike Dunlap.

 

[Stout]

3-4 OLBers should never have to be rated on their ability to play out of a three-point stance, as that isn't their fricken' job. I know we've run a kind of oddball mixture of the 3-4, 4-3, and heck, even 5-3, and more, but I think (hope) the staff wishes to move on to use the most devastating features of the 3-4: fear of the unknown. If we just have some random OLB lining up in a 3-point stance getting ready to rush, well golly, that's what's going to happen. If we have our OLBers standing up on the outside, with our ILBers cheating up and then dropping back, and if we have a tendency to sometimes drop the ends into coverage and rush the OLBers inside, and if...well, the possibilities are endless. You get the point, that the 3-4 should be about making the offense's collective brain implode. OLBers in that defense rarely if ever put their hands on the ground to play. It's not that kind of defense.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Maybe the lack of a pass rush for the sake of "dropping this approach" had something to do with giving up 90 points in 2 playoff games...and a 99 yard drive to lose the Titans' game, etc.

???

B-Train was there...

 

[kerouac9]

Just because they did so in college, doesn't mean they will right away in the pros. In the pre-season before he got hurt, Cody Brown was not a factor in the 4 man rush. He was getting stopped in his tracks play after play. Now, the hope is he will become a factor, but at this point we do not know. Will Davis got his couple of good QB pressures this year from a two point stance from the far edge out of the base 3-4. He really didn't get many snaps and almost never had any out of a htree point stance. And Stevie Baggs hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

We are all hopeful they will develop...same with Mark Washington...but to head into the season without a more proven rusher like Joey Porter creates far too many uncertainties...and I guarantee you that Brandon Graham and Carlos Dunlap are stronger options than what we have on the other side...they have the right blend of quickness AND strength.

I'm not going to argue with you that this team would be better with Joey Porter; at this point no one is going to argue with you there.

I'm not sure how you can say from one side of your mouth that Cody Brown is unproven and then state outright that you can "guarantee" that Graham or Dunlap (who is more of a run-stopper anyway) are going to be better than him. Brown's spent some 15 months now in John Lott's program; who are you to say that he hasn't become stronger and quicker over the course of that time?

 

[Cardiac]

Thanks for the response Mitch. It seems I wasn't the only one a bit confused by this. What the discussion did for me was allow me to think outside the box a bit. A pure 3-4 doesn't employ 4 men with their hands in the dirt. My impression was that Whis and Davis wanted to get us to a pure 3-4, which means OLB's and 3-4 DE's only. Now as we all know the NFL does keep evolving which brings us new looks and schemes. With the right personel what Mitch describes could work, hopefully better then with Btrain and Chike.

 

[bg7brd]

3-4 OLBers should never have to be rated on their ability to play out of a three-point stance, as that isn't their fricken' job. I know we've run a kind of oddball mixture of the 3-4, 4-3, and heck, even 5-3, and more, but I think (hope) the staff wishes to move on to use the most devastating features of the 3-4: fear of the unknown. If we just have some random OLB lining up in a 3-point stance getting ready to rush, well golly, that's what's going to happen. If we have our OLBers standing up on the outside, with our ILBers cheating up and then dropping back, and if we have a tendency to sometimes drop the ends into coverage and rush the OLBers inside, and if...well, the possibilities are endless. You get the point, that the 3-4 should be about making the offense's collective brain implode. OLBers in that defense rarely if ever put their hands on the ground to play. It's not that kind of defense.

This!

 

[cardsfanmd]

Yeah, CC, this one's pretty tasty, you will want to order a bowl, not a cup.

gayest pick-up line ever

 

[cardsfanmd]

Um... Steve Breaston? Before him: David Boston?

The "we need a speed WR" shibboleth is one of the more annoying offseason concerns that comes up every year on the board. Who was Pittsburgh's vertical passing weapon?

Mike Wallace.

 

[kerouac9]

Mike Wallace.

Okay, but that's this year. When they won the Super Bowls, they didn't have a speed receiver. I like Santonio Holmes a ton but he's no faster than Steve Breaston, he's just more slippery and runs better routes.

 

[BigRedArk]

Um... Steve Breaston? Before him: David Boston?

The "we need a speed WR" shibboleth is one of the more annoying offseason concerns that comes up every year on the board. Who was Pittsburgh's vertical passing weapon?

Duh... I totally forgot about Boston and Roy Greeen. Breaston is indeed our deep threat at WR but I was thinking in terms of what a burner type ( DeSean Jackson or Mike Wallace) would do for our O. Can you have too many threats on the field at once to worry the oposing D over? Since we are short two WR's why not go for this type if one with potential could be had in say the 4th or possibly the 6th.
Then again the coaches may like what they already have on PS (Onrea Jones?) to step up into the open spots.