Thoughts on T Levi Brown and RB Brian Leonard

[dreamcastrocks]

Why is there such a problem with drafting two offensive tackles? Do you guys not remember the Jets spending two first rounders on linemen? What happened, they went from bad to good pretty quickly.

With as bad as our line has played in the past 20 years, people should be advocating spending all 6 draft picks on linemen.

 

[lobo]

.

Finally, the main point of my thread wasn't to point fingers but to lay out the consequences of our front office's action (or inaction). I think we will be forced to move away from BPA and toward need in this draft. Taking the long range view, we should never have let ourselves get into that predicament.[/quote]

Thank Jeff. A great response as usual. I was merely interested in your point of view and you gave me a terrific answer. Thanks. Let's just cross our everythings and hope Thomas drops!!

 

[earthsci]

...people should be advocating spending all 6 draft picks on linemen.

I don't think that it would be such a bad idea. Think about it, what positions do we have to have. TE, OLB and OLinemen, specifically Tackles. Re-sign Adam Bergen, bam, we're at least where we were last year. Put my mom in pads, bam, we have a better OLB than Orlando Huff.

Rd 1 - Thomas or Brown
Rd 2 - Ryan Kalil, Tony Ugoh, Justin Blalock, Arron Sears or James Marten
Rd 3 - Samson Satele, Marshal Yanda, Josh Beekman or Ryan Harris
Rd 4 - Any of the guys from Rd 3 that are left, Chase Johnson, Doug Free
Rd 5 - Herbert Taylor or Renardo Foster
Rd 7 - Mario Henderson, Stephen Heyer, Kyle Tatum or Andrew Carnahan

Our defense is a push from last year but now our offense is better. We can keep our defense off of the field. That makes our defense better. We just score more points than our opponent. Last time I checked, that's how you win games.

In all seriousness, I know that this approach would be foolish but, not too foolish when you think about it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't think that it would be such a bad idea. Think about it, what positions do we have to have. TE, OLB and OLinemen, specifically Tackles. Re-sign Adam Bergen, bam, we're at least where we were last year. Put my mom in pads, bam, we have a better OLB than Orlando Huff.

Rd 1 - Thomas or Brown
Rd 2 - Ryan Kalil, Tony Ugoh, Justin Blalock, Arron Sears or James Marten
Rd 3 - Samson Satele, Marshal Yanda, Josh Beekman or Ryan Harris
Rd 4 - Any of the guys from Rd 3 that are left, Chase Johnson, Doug Free
Rd 5 - Herbert Taylor or Renardo Foster
Rd 7 - Mario Henderson, Stephen Heyer, Kyle Tatum or Andrew Carnahan

Our defense is a push from last year but now our offense is better. We can keep our defense off of the field. That makes our defense better. We just score more points than our opponent. Last time I checked, that's how you win games.

In all seriousness, I know that this approach would be foolish but, not too foolish when you think about it.

The only reason why it is foolish, is that we cannot reasonably sign all 6 guys to contracts. We can't have 12 or 13 offensive lineman at the start of the year. I would not mind at all if we drafted 3 offensive lineman of the 6 draft picks. We need at least 2 more tackles and a guard for depth purposes. You draft a linebacker, DE and possibly a TE/FB with the other 3 picks.

 

[earthsci]

The only reason why it is foolish, is that we cannot reasonably sign all 6 guys to contracts. We can't have 12 or 13 offensive lineman at the start of the year. I would not mind at all if we drafted 3 offensive lineman of the 6 draft picks. We need at least 2 more tackles and a guard for depth purposes. You draft a linebacker, DE and possibly a TE/FB with the other 3 picks.

 

[Southpaw]

I don't think that it would be such a bad idea. Think about it, what positions do we have to have. TE, OLB and OLinemen, specifically Tackles. Re-sign Adam Bergen, bam, we're at least where we were last year. Put my mom in pads, bam, we have a better OLB than Orlando Huff.
Rd 1 - Thomas or Brown
Rd 2 - Ryan Kalil, Tony Ugoh, Justin Blalock, Arron Sears or James Marten
Rd 3 - Samson Satele, Marshal Yanda, Josh Beekman or Ryan Harris
Rd 4 - Any of the guys from Rd 3 that are left, Chase Johnson, Doug Free
Rd 5 - Herbert Taylor or Renardo Foster
Rd 7 - Mario Henderson, Stephen Heyer, Kyle Tatum or Andrew Carnahan

Our defense is a push from last year but now our offense is better. We can keep our defense off of the field. That makes our defense better. We just score more points than our opponent. Last time I checked, that's how you win games.

In all seriousness, I know that this approach would be foolish but, not too foolish when you think about it.

Please submit your Mom's combine #s and Wunderlic score.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Please submit your Mom's combine #s and Wunderlic score.

4/5

 

[earthsci]

Please submit your Mom's combine #s and Wunderlic score.

Don't piss her off. She hits hard.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't piss her off. She hits hard.

Okay, we don't need her #s, she sounds like she just makes plays.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

I wonder if Miami would give us their second and let us go down to nine. NFL network says they are interested in Brown and Landry. In one of my draft guides they say the Eagles are very interested in Brian Leonard with their second rounder

 

[Southpaw]

I wonder if Miami would give us their second and let us go down to nine. NFL network says they are interested in Brown and Landry. In one of my draft guides they say the Eagles are very interested in Brian Leonard with their second rounder

Brown should be available at #9. Landry also. They would have to want Thomas , Peterson , Quinn, Johnson to move up. Fins are probably a good candidate to move down. They need more draft choices. They do not have a QB and only 1 RB. Their receivers suck. Their O line sucks. They have no DBs.

 

[Gandhi]

This probably is not the right tread to post this in, but I cannot find a better one.

I just do not get it.

For several years our offensive line has been bad.
Now we have the chance to change it, and some people wants Patrick Willis or even LaRon Landry.

Even as those are good players, I just cannot figure out why in the world anyone do not want os to even try to fix our offensive line.

Now, Joe Thomas may not be the new Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones or whoever, but at least he is a solid starter, and with our second pick we could make the line even more solid by picking Ugoh, Staley, Blalock or who would be their.

As much as I like many players, I just think this is the time to repair our offensive line if possible.

Hopefully we would not draft this high for several years.

 

[MemphisRam]

Anybody else notice that the Falcons and Dolphins need OTs, too.

Wayne Gandy is 35 years old and their new coach wants to emphasis a power running game. Not his specialty.

Miami's LT on their depth chart? About as blank as the Cardinals.

Trading down would be a horrible idea.

Besides, it takes two to tango anyway.

 

[Pariah]

Besides, it takes two to tango anyway.

Ah, yes: The Big "T."

 

[Sandan]

My question to all of this is ?

WHAT IF:

Joe Thomas is taken at #2 by the Lions.

The Cardinals trade with Houston, thinking they still can get Levi Brown. Then either Washington or Minnesota takes Levi Brown.

Then Joe Staley (who I am not that high on) is taken in the middle of round 1.

Now the Cardinals are left with the #8 pick in the draft, an extra 3rd rounder, and a 6th round pick but no top prospect LT to show for it.

That is a likely scenario as any, and my biggest worry.

Not only does this leave the Cardinals in the exact same boat as last year (good team with no offensive line), it makes them look even more stupid, and cheap than they already are preceived.

I would take Thomas or Brown with the number five pick. For the reason that Joe Thomas would be a perfect pick for #5, and Levi Brown is still a reach but no by that much, and it also fills a HUGE, ENORMOUS, FESTERING, LINGERING need that has plagued the Cardinals for almost a decade.

What if I could come up with a scenario that the stupid Cardinals might do.

Wouldn't it be terrible if they traded down to to the mid teens for little in return or maybe worse couldn't get their picks in in time like the Vikings

 

[lobo]

This probably is not the right tread to post this in, but I cannot find a better one.
.

Hopefully we would not draft this high for several years.

Don't spill your tandori bowl over this. The Cardinals WILL field a team of 11 players on offense. One is going to be a LT. A person who knows how to line up at that position. If Joe Thomas is available they will take him at 5. If not they will take the very conservative approach and move down to a spot where there is a 99.9% chance the Levi Brown will be there.

Unless somethng magical happens on draft day or before, where we pick up a left tackle you should be able to sleep well. Don't become hysterical, this issue is under control.

 

[Duckjake]

A person who knows how to line up at that position.

I know how to line up at Left Tackle. If its a run you get in a 3 point, if its a pass you get in a 2 point and jump backwards right before the ball is snapped.

 

[Skkorpion]

I know how to line up at Left Tackle. If its a run you get in a 3 point, if its a pass you get in a 2 point and jump backwards right before the ball is snapped.

That's obviously what they teach in Texas.

 

[Duckjake]

That's obviously what they teach in Texas.

No, that's taught exclusively at Hardy and Warner in Tempe Arizona.

You know, that famous place where guards are tackles, tackles are centers, safeties are linebackers and cornerbacks are safeties and all the convenience stores are 5 and 11's.

 

[JeffGollin]

I just do not get it...For several years our offensive line has been bad. Now we have the chance to change it, and some people wants Patrick Willis or even LaRon Landry.

If we have the chance to change our O-line by drafting someone considered good value at #5, I agree that we should do it (and we probably will).

But to answer the broader implications of your question:

Perhaps you are too young to remember 10 years ago when - desperate to fill a void at corner back - we reached for Tommy Knight at #9. He was considered a CB who played too far off his man and timid in coverage. He performed as predicted. But we drafted him because we hadda, gotta better get a corner.

Teams who chronically "draft for need" wind up creating more needs as time goes by - because the over all talent-level of their roster will decline as they pass up more and more talented players in order to plug holes.

The reason why many of us (me included) are looking long and hard at Willis is because we think he may help our team more at MLB or SLB than L Brown would help us at LT. (This is a debatable point - some folks feel we're underrating Brown and that he could help us more at LT than Willis could at LB).

Personally, I think we have a 50-50 shot at Thomas (and that we'll draft him if he falls to us) and close to a 100% shot at Levi Brown with a 60-40 chance we'll draft him if Thomas is gone regardless of whether or not there may be more talented athletes still on our board.

But that leaves a 40% chance we might pass on Brown because we think someone like Willis, Landry, Revis (or even conceivably Ginn) can help us more than Brown can.

Those are the dynamics - not that any of us are ignoring our need to upgrade our O-line. (Note - We wouldn't be in this predicament if we had been more pro-active earlier toward upgrading the LT position - either by making a stronger effort to extend Leonard a year or so earlier or being more agressive in free agency).

FInal point - I think it's sad that we'll probably pass on Leonard (despite his physical ability and his intangibles) because of other more pressing needs. He's the kind of player whom teams who have their bleep together can afford to pick up because their rosters are more set since they've addressed their other more pressing needs in other ways. Alas, we do not yet have that luxury.

 

[Southpaw]

Heard a general manager on a radio show last week, but can't remember his name. He made the statement that it was much better to draft BPA than push a position of need by elevating a player beyond his worth and drafting him out of a desire to uopgrade a position. He later tempered his remark by saying a compromise of the 2 methods was better. Optimally, if a highly ranked player addressed an immediate need, that would be a no brainer. As an example could someone turn down Adrian Peterson to draft Landry? Maybe that is a bad example.

 

[BradMannTX]

Will we actually be allowed to have another "Brown" on this football team?

Holy Moley.

 

[earthsci]

No, that's taught exclusively at Hardy and Warner in Tempe Arizona.

You know, that famous place where guards are tackles, tackles are centers, safeties are linebackers and cornerbacks are safeties and all the convenience stores are 5 and 11's.

 

[Duckjake]

Heard a general manager on a radio show last week, but can't remember his name. He made the statement that it was much better to draft BPA than push a position of need by elevating a player beyond his worth and drafting him out of a desire to uopgrade a position. He later tempered his remark by saying a compromise of the 2 methods was better. Optimally, if a highly ranked player addressed an immediate need, that would be a no brainer. As an example could someone turn down Adrian Peterson to draft Landry? Maybe that is a bad example.

The real problems in drafting occur when a team gets itself in a situation where it is desperate for a player at a certain position. That happened with Tom Knight, Wendell Bryant and the Bryant Johnson-Calvin Pace draft.

I don't follow other teams very closely. Do other franchises get themselves into situations where they don't have ANY even serviceable players at one or more positions on their roster like the Cardinals have done several times over the past 10 years or so? Have you seen the Dolphins do stuff like that?

 

[Southpaw]

The real problems in drafting occur when a team gets itself in a situation where it is desperate for a player at a certain position. That happened with Tom Knight, Wendell Bryant and the Bryant Johnson-Calvin Pace draft.

I don't follow other teams very closely. Do other franchises get themselves into situations where they don't have ANY even serviceable players at one or more positions on their roster like the Cardinals have done several times over the past 10 years or so? Have you seen the Dolphins do stuff like that?

The Dolphins are the ultimate example of this scenario. I am not saying this out of hate or frustration but the Dolphins are thin or non existent at many positions. Their roster has 2 QBs. Cleo Lemon and Daunte Culpepper. There are many who say Daunte will not take another snap for the Dolphins. So they have to sign someone like Trent Green, a stop gap. They have one RB ( literally), Ronnie Brown, unless Ricky gets reinstated and resigned. Their DB situation is terribly thin and bad. They drafted Jason Allen, last year with their #1 and he never saw the field since he was beaten out by an undrafted FA who also sucks. OL is devoid of numbers and skill. They just signed Haz Akim ( old ) after losing Wes Welker. They have no TEs since cutting Randy McMichaels loose. They went through the Chris Spielman ( GM ) era followed up by the Nick Saban era. A shambles. They could draft BPA at any psoition and improve their roster. Only way they could screw it up is by drafting for one specific need and reaching.

P.S. They refuse to resign Place KIcker Olindo Mare, so they need one of those.