Thoughts on the Cleveland Win

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
As Catfish so aptly predicted---this was the ultimate trap game---Cleveland had 10 days to prepare--yes they were without Colt McCoy---but, their head coach coached in the NFC West last year and knows the Cardinals well---their backup QB played in the NFC West for years and Seneca Wallace presented a much different challenge for the Cardinals---as we saw---you HAVE to keep contain on him---you CANNOT edge blitz to his inside shoulder as Mike Adams did and expect a good outcome. Plus---they have one of the most talented and physical offensive lines in the NFL and a beast of a RB in Hillis. Furthermore---their defense is physical and potentially dynamic all across the board--they are stout up front, their DEs in rookie Sheard (whom I am many other hear wanted so badly to be a Cardinal) and Gocong are very good---their LBers (D'Quell and Maiava) are active and physical and Joe Haden is a potentially elite CB. And then, for added measure their STs featuring Josh Cribbs in the return game is formidible.

Sure---they've been losing games---but like the Cardinals 7 weeks ago, they are on the verge of turning the corner and turning it, imo, for good the next few years.

Thus---the beginning of this game did not surprise me in the least----

But---after Hillis was ripping the field up and Wallace was calmly making good reads and throwing darts---what I began to wonder is when the wake-up call on defense would come---and it did, imo, when D-Wash stepped up and laid two ferocious licks on Hillis---that and a rejuvenated Kerry Rhodes and Richard Marshall started filling the gaps with authority.

Meanwhile---the offense was getting out-quicked---and John Skelton was feeling his way through the pressure---there were some passes he threw that could have been caught, albeit they were a little off the mark---but when you look at some of those throws Skelton was trying to throw them around the hands-up pressure he was getting up the middle.

Skelton's drive at the end of the half was a thing of beauty---and I sensed right then that he was going to find a way to pull this one out.

Even after Adams' gaffe, and the long TD pass---I sensed that it now became Skelton time.

He got so unlucky on the Skrine interception---and to be quite frank I felt that if Early Doucet had played with full concentration that this game could have been much different---Doucet dropped three passes that could have been crucial to the outcome, including the slant pass he dropped at the 5 yard line on 2nd and 16 after the turnover and failed shuffle pass (which BTW, versus a goal-line defense stacked to stop the run after Beanie has just scored on them---was such a curious call, especially with Fitz matched up one on one to the outside, and with a running game that was starting to turn 2 yards into 4.

The officiating was infuriating at times---especially on the third and short where the Cardinals clearly stuffed Hillis short of the marker---and yet, did you see what I saw---as the players were unpiling---the official who had the original mark right took a one yard step in Cleveland's direction---I would want to ask about that guy---it was an egregious decision on his part and I was furious that Whisenhunt didn't challenge---there is a time when a HC has to do right by his defense and have their backs---and this time in addition to the early decision not to challenge the pass to the five yard line on the opening drive where it looked as if the WR landed his shoulder out of bounds---and yet no challenge from Whisenhunt---when he did challenge it was clear that the play was going to stand---maybe he was trying to ice the kicker as he did the previous week---

However, Whisenhunt made up for it all when he challenged the Wallace fumble---a call that I was sure he wasn't going to get (at least we didn't have Mike Perriera or whatever his name is---chiming in against the Cardinals as he ALWAYS does)---and yet we learn about the back of the hand rule and Whisenhunt wins the challenge.

Say what you will about Skelton---but 313 yards and 13 unanswered points from a 17-7 deficit and again he pulls off the win.

To me there is no QB controversy---when you are basically 5-1 and have led the team from behind in all of those games---you are the man. It's sickening to me to hear the disrespect he gets. He has what, 9 NFL starts? What do you people expect?

The main thing I have said all along about his is he plays unafraid---and that is a gift for a young inexperienced QB---and when he makes a mistake he has the fortitude to come right back and overcome it.

Yet the scrutiny he is receiving from fans and his own HC is mind-boggling to me---sure if he were a five year veteran like Kolb---but this kid has transitioned as an afterthought starter from the Patriot League to a 7-3 record in the NFL for a team that has gone 5-15 in games without him.

And yet I know---one stinker of a game and he will be summarily dismissed by many of the fans and possibly by that man whose job he helped to save this season and last. That's the great irony to me. Skelton wins another comeback game and the HC is quick to remind the media about the missed seam pass to Fitz earlier in the game---on a pass that if Fitz doesn't slip because of the ridiculously slippery UofP grass, that Fitz still could have easily caught. How about the strikes Skelton threw to Roberts (TD under pressure) and Heap? How about the game winning strike to Fitz that was thrown on the money with touch?

I don't know about you, but I am not expecting EVERY pass to be thrown on the money---not with the pressure our QBs get. I expect him to be close, which he was on almost all of his throws, save four or five.

In light of the circumstances---and the opportunistic plays from Scho and PP21---and the timely response to the 17-7 deficit, I think this was a GREAT win!

I am not ready to anoint Skelton the QBOTF but he sure is the quarter back of now. I just do not see why all the criticism of a rookie with his record. He probably has the best rookie record of any NFL rookie. He has only played in about nine games so to me that makes him a rookie. He looks like the best young QB we have fielded in some years. Great instincts and a QB the offensive line has to love as they know where he will likely be and that is in the pocket. Tall guy, long arms. big arm and can run and escape when needed. All the talk should be about Skelton and not Kolb. Would I trade Skelton for Tebow tomorrow. No I would not. Tebow is dominating the press and yet Skelton is performing like a real NFL QB who will likely get much better with experience. He has won against teams like the Eagles at their house, Dallas at our house, SF at our house. He is not winning just against teams with losing records.

My fear is the HC may start Kolb for some strange reason that would be beyond me. So far in his 6 year NFL career Kolb has proven absolutely nothing that justified paying what we did for him. I view him at the moment as a backup to Skelton next year. If Kolb turns out to be better than Skelton then great but so far there is no comparison
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,684
Reaction score
39,001
Russ: are you sure thats the case?

IIRC, Wis doesn't win the challenge unless the spotting of the ball makes a difference --i.e. no first down

I thought that's what they said on the telecast. I admit I wasn't sure it was true but it was the announcers reasoning for why we should have challenged it.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,684
Reaction score
39,001
Rule Clarification: You only get your timeout back if the change in the spot does not lead to a first down. If they change the spot, but it still results in a first down, you lose the challenge.

Thanks the announcer said something different but that does make more sense. The Cards would be challenging first down not just spot.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
I've been in Skelton's camp from the beginning. I see "potential"( ie; Tough to bring down; unflappable approach; decent arm strength, etc...)

It seems to me that the coaching staff is letting him feel his way in the 1st half. I honestly get frustrated with this strategy at times (ie; 5-10 yard under-neath passes) It's when he starts to go down-field that he seems to get in a nice rhythm. I also think he prefers the hurry-up offense and I was glad when they went to it early in the 4th in the Browns' game.

Here's one BIG chip on Skelton'side as he goes forward. He's making a habit of rallying the team when the chips are on the table. Now, if I'm a defensive player I'm thinking....keep us within 2 scores and we're going to win this thing. Offensively, I'm thinking it's our time to get it done. 2 scores and we win. The belief...the strength of will...that somehow...someway..they're going to get it done is what seperates the good from the bad teams in my opinion.

Hoping to win is NOT the same as KNOWING you're going to win.

Mark in SC :)

One can actually see Skelton going through his progressions on receivers during a play. With Kolb he seems to be on the move almost immediately and I wonder if he is able to go through the progressions. One might defend him by saying the OL was letting guys get through. If they do not know where he is going to be they do not know where to block or defend. On some of the closeups on Skelton during a play you can clearly see his eyes moving from one side of the field to the other. As to arm strength I think he has much more than an average arm. Sometimes it is to strong. I have seen a number of plays where two tacklers on him and he still gets the ball away. On one play he made a toss off while falling to the ground for an important first down. Seems like he rarely leaves the pocket and very good about stepping up into it to get more time. I am surprised he can run as good as he can. There have been a couple of plays I wish he had tucked the ball in and ran rather than pass. Appears to be a very tough guy and a calm guy.

Kolb to me seems to always be in a panic mode. It would be interesting to hear what the players take on our two QB's is? What kind of presence do they have in the huddle. When you win with one guy and lose with the other that has to have an impact on the players. I would think that Skelton's confidence is flying high and Kolb must be down having to sit for a job he thought he had locked up. Long ago the starting first baseman for the Yankees had to come out due to an injury. The guy who replaced him was named Lou Gehrig. You never know. There should be no question as to who starts the next two games. The media is totally over looking Skelton and his results. I guess it is because we are the Cardinals. We are however still in the hunt with only two games left to go. I think we are once again the underdog this Saturday. Good!
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
I've been in Skelton's camp from the beginning. I see "potential"( ie; Tough to bring down; unflappable approach; decent arm strength, etc...)

It seems to me that the coaching staff is letting him feel his way in the 1st half. I honestly get frustrated with this strategy at times (ie; 5-10 yard under-neath passes) It's when he starts to go down-field that he seems to get in a nice rhythm. I also think he prefers the hurry-up offense and I was glad when they went to it early in the 4th in the Browns' game.

Here's one BIG chip on Skelton'side as he goes forward. He's making a habit of rallying the team when the chips are on the table. Now, if I'm a defensive player I'm thinking....keep us within 2 scores and we're going to win this thing. Offensively, I'm thinking it's our time to get it done. 2 scores and we win. The belief...the strength of will...that somehow...someway..they're going to get it done is what seperates the good from the bad teams in my opinion.

Hoping to win is NOT the same as KNOWING you're going to win.

Mark in SC :)

One can actually see Skelton going through his progressions on receivers during a play. With Kolb he seems to be on the move almost immediately and I wonder if he is able to go through the progressions. One might defend him by saying the OL was letting guys get through. If they do not know where he is going to be they do not know where to block or defend. On some of the closeups on Skelton you can clearly see his eyes moving from one side of the field to the other. As to arm strength, I think he has much more than an average arm. Sometimes it is to strong. I have seen a number of plays where two tacklers on him and he still gets the ball away. On one play he made a toss while falling to the ground for an important first down. Seems like he rarely leaves the pocket and very good about stepping up into it to get more time. I am surprised he can run as good as he can. There have been a couple of plays I wish he had tucked the ball in and ran rather than pass. Appears to be a very tough guy and a calm guy.

Kolb to me seems to always be in a panic mode. It would be interesting to hear what the players take on our two QB's is? What kind of presence do they have in the huddle. When you win with one guy and lose with the other that has to have an impact on the players. I would think that Skelton's confidence is flying high and Kolb must be down having to sit for a job he thought he had locked up. Long ago the starting first baseman for the Yankees had to come out due to an injury. The guy who replaced him was named Lou Gehrig. You never know. There should be no question as to who starts the next two games. The media is totally over looking Skelton and his results. I guess it is because we are the Cardinals. We are however still in the hunt with only two games left to go. I think we are once again the underdog this Saturday. Good!

Early in the year I was critical of Whiz going on the defense after winning the toss at the start of the game. Now it makes sense with the defense we have and the fact we are we are winning our games in the second half. Anyone know what the stats are on winning and losing vs who scores first?
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,945
Reaction score
948
Location
In The End Zone
With Kolb he seems to be on the move almost immediately and I wonder if he is able to go through the progressions. One might defend him by saying the OL was letting guys get through. If they do not know where he is going to be they do not know where to block or defend.
~snip~
Kolb to me seems to always be in a panic mode.

This was true earlier in the year, but not in the Cowboy game. Pocket Panic was the primary thing Kolb was doing wrong, and he was much more calm in the Cowboy game. However, Skelton is VERY calm in the pocket.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,813
Reaction score
14,766
Location
Chandler, Az
OK to show you how much I watch the Cleveland Browns... I was shocked to find out that Peyton Hillis is white.
 

Darkside

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 27, 2010
Posts
8,107
Reaction score
191
Location
Tempe, AZ
Dude, of course he's white man, he's a FB, when's the last time you saw a black FB that was effective that they didn't want to turn into a TE.
 

Darkside

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 27, 2010
Posts
8,107
Reaction score
191
Location
Tempe, AZ
One guy out of thousands. That's like finding a Chinese Quarterback.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Go ahead and give me a banning, cuz I'm about to earn one

Dawg. I have one thing for you. We may live 1000 miles apart but I'll join you in

:beer:

I'm heading to the fridge now.

But like my kids keep saying to me. Peace Out. I enjoy your posts and don't want them gone.
 

Darkside

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 27, 2010
Posts
8,107
Reaction score
191
Location
Tempe, AZ
It was a stupid, drunk (on my part) couple of posts, didn't mean to offend.
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,463
Reaction score
7,632
What is it about the Cards that makes us drink and turn into raging alcoholics :D ? I don't drink all that much throughout the week (maybe a drink for the entire week) but get me watching a Cards game and I'll drink beer like crazy. I drank 12+ beers watching the Cards/SF game :beer:. Last week, when I got home, I went through a 6 pack watching just the 4th quarter and OT, haven't had one since. I'm sure the beer will be flowing Sunday down in Cincy as well.

I don't do it watching Ohio State.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
What is it about the Cards that makes us drink and turn into raging alcoholics :D ? I don't drink all that much throughout the week (maybe a drink for the entire week) but get me watching a Cards game and I'll drink beer like crazy. I drank 12+ beers watching the Cards/SF game :beer:. Last week, when I got home, I went through a 6 pack watching just the 4th quarter and OT, haven't had one since. I'm sure the beer will be flowing Sunday down in Cincy as well.

I don't do it watching Ohio State.

It's all those years of 5-11.

11-5 = 6 pack
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
553,875
Posts
5,411,992
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top