Thoughts on this draft...

[elindholm]

Tucker, Bledsoe and Frye are the big questions right now.

Although I understand his limitations, I'd like to see Tucker stick around. Well, I said that before I remembered his insistence on forcing up a terrible shot after every offensive rebound he's fortunate enough to collect. So okay, let's say I'm ambivalent.

I have to believe Frye is gone.

What's weird about Bledsoe is how quiet both sides have been. How come we aren't hearing more about how the Suns see him as a long-term part of their future, or how enthusiastic he is about staying? It's mysterious.

 

[Chaplin]

What's weird about Bledsoe is how quiet both sides have been. How come we aren't hearing more about how the Suns see him as a long-term part of their future, or how enthusiastic he is about staying? It's mysterious.

My guess is his agent told him to shut up and not say anything.

 

[Superbone]

My guess is his agent told him to shut up and not say anything.

Yep, it's been pretty obvious since he got here.

 

[devilalum]

My guess is his agent told him to shut up and not say anything.

All the Suns have ever said about him is we'll match any offer.

 

[Sci Fi]

All the Suns have ever said about him is we'll match any offer.

Nope. They never said that. What was said was they would match any "reasonable" offer. And since McD knows what the max is, that means there is an offer which he believes to be unreasonable.

 

[SweetD]

I Don't see Frye or Tucker back. There salaries wouldn't be worth it. Eric should be back unless there is a S&T for a premier player. It is just interesting that no team has come out to say they want to sign Eric? I wonder if the Suns have told everyone he can be had in a S&T??

 

[AzStevenCal]

I Don't see Frye or Tucker back. There salaries wouldn't be worth it. Eric should be back unless there is a S&T for a premier player. It is just interesting that no team has come out to say they want to sign Eric? I wonder if the Suns have told everyone he can be had in a S&T??

I don't know much about this but I don't think we've quite reached that date where teams can publicly admit interest in a player. That might have just changed with our QO to Eric or maybe it's July 1st but I don't think it's something they could have done a month ago. Even with Love, I believe all they were allowed to do is contact the Wolves.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

All the Suns have ever said about him is we'll match any offer.

Doesn't that make it obvious they don't think he is a max player? I mean the Suns don't want to strain the cap and they want him back.

Reasonable says pretty clearly....see if some other team give you max. If they do...we will pass. If they offer you something decent we will pay you.

 

[Chaplin]

Doesn't that make it obvious they don't think he is a max player? I mean the Suns don't want to strain the cap and they want him back.

Reasonable says pretty clearly....see if some other team give you max. If they do...we will pass. If they offer you something decent we will pay you.

He isn't a max player. Do you think he is a max player?

Even if three teams offer him the max, it doesn't mean he's worth it. He could be down the road, but right now? No way.

But you are really inferring a lot from a simple statement.

 

[SunsTzu]

Nope. They never said that. What was said was they would match any "reasonable" offer. And since McD knows what the max is, that means there is an offer which he believes to be unreasonable.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/01/whatever-takes-bledsoe.html

“Obviously we don’t have a whole lot of money committed for the future, we don’t have a lot of long-term contracts on our books. So we’ll have no problem stepping up and paying Eric whatever it takes to keep him,”

Whether it's true or not remains to be seen but McDonough has said repeatedly they will match any offer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He isn't a max player. Do you think he is a max player?

Even if three teams offer him the max, it doesn't mean he's worth it. He could be down the road, but right now? No way.

But you are really inferring a lot from a simple statement.

Excuse me??? This is a sports forum, are you really allowed to use "inferring" correctly?

I hope we're matching Bledsoe regardless of the amount. Losing him for nothing is a step backwards.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/01/whatever-takes-bledsoe.html



Whether it's true or not remains to be seen but McDonough has said repeatedly they will match any offer.

You're right, I've heard him make that comment more than once. He's also made the qualified version of that comment but I think (and I hope) he really means it when he says we'll match any offer.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

He isn't a max player. Do you think he is a max player?

Even if three teams offer him the max, it doesn't mean he's worth it. He could be down the road, but right now? No way.

But you are really inferring a lot from a simple statement.

That is not a simple answer. If the market says he is a max player...that sort of says it all. However, do I personally think he is a max player? NO. To me, max players are the type of franchise superstars that attract other talent to the franchise. Is Bledsoe going to attract other players? I doubt it.

To me, if you are going to tie up max dollars in a player you better hope he is the type of player others will flock too. If not, you are only hurting the team longer term, tying up caps space and for what? To win a few more games?

It appears the Suns think this too or they would offer him a Max contract right out of the gate.

 

[Sci Fi]

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/01/whatever-takes-bledsoe.html



Whether it's true or not remains to be seen but McDonough has said repeatedly they will match any offer.

That's an article before he was injured. He's used the qualifier after the season was over.

He's really not a max player. Two surgeries and only one half of a season as a starter. Steph Curry didn't even get a max due to his injury concern and Bledose isn't as good. Plus, I think there is a reasonable chance you lose Dragic next summer if Bledsoe gets a max.

We just watched a finals performance by the Spurs that was largely possible because the Spurs were able to get players on "fair" contracts and build in a unique way. The Suns really have very little choice but to try to do things in a similar manner since Phoenix really isn't high on any list for FA's. If Bledsoe likes it here and wants to build a winning culture while still being reasonably compensated, then a contract like Curry's should work for both parties. If he insists on a max, it likely says something about his personality that would indicate he's probably not a good fit for that style. Nothing against him getting what he wants but if it's amax contract, let him go somewhere else.

 

[Chaplin]

That is not a simple answer. If the market says he is a max player...that sort of says it all. However, do I personally think he is a max player? NO. To me, max players are the type of franchise superstars that attract other talent to the franchise. Is Bledsoe going to attract other players? I doubt it.

To me, if you are going to tie up max dollars in a player you better hope he is the type of player others will flock too. If not, you are only hurting the team longer term, tying up caps space and for what? To win a few more games?

It appears the Suns think this too or they would offer him a Max contract right out of the gate.

To me, this says the Suns are actually playing this smart--the chance he'll get offered a max contract by some idiotic front office is there. The Suns won't be that team, but they have the power to make the decision to sign him to that max contract if they choose to. They probably also have a much better handle on how free agents treat the Suns, much more than those of us that are armchair quarterbacks that are convinced the Suns as an organization suck.

 

[Covert Rain]

To me, this says the Suns are actually playing this smart--the chance he'll get offered a max contract by some idiotic front office is there. The Suns won't be that team, but they have the power to make the decision to sign him to that max contract if they choose to. They probably also have a much better handle on how free agents treat the Suns, much more than those of us that are armchair quarterbacks that are convinced the Suns as an organization suck.

I agree. I think the Suns are playing this smart. Don't be the first to offer him the max contract. However, if the Suns truly believed he was a superstar...do you really think they would even hesitate to give him max dollars? I don't.

Like you said....they probably believe someone will offer it to him but want to make sure that the market is willing to do that with the outside hope of signing him for cheaper.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'd rather potentially be overpaying Bledsoe by a few million than lose a guy that talented for nothing. Max contracts, especially for guys coming off their rookie deals are not what they used to be. And we're paying him not for what he has done previously but for what we think he is capable of over the next 4 years.

I wouldnt throw him a max deal on our own, let him get the offer from someone else. If no one offers him over 45 million, then wonderful, but the difference between that and a max deal is only 13 million spread out over 4 years. He is among the best defensive guards in the NBA and a very good offensive player with room to grow. I'd match any offer he gets, without question.

 

[SunsTzu]

That's an article before he was injured. He's used the qualifier after the season was over.

He's really not a max player. Two surgeries and only one half of a season as a starter. Steph Curry didn't even get a max due to his injury concern and Bledose isn't as good. Plus, I think there is a reasonable chance you lose Dragic next summer if Bledsoe gets a max.

We just watched a finals performance by the Spurs that was largely possible because the Spurs were able to get players on "fair" contracts and build in a unique way. The Suns really have very little choice but to try to do things in a similar manner since Phoenix really isn't high on any list for FA's. If Bledsoe likes it here and wants to build a winning culture while still being reasonably compensated, then a contract like Curry's should work for both parties. If he insists on a max, it likely says something about his personality that would indicate he's probably not a good fit for that style. Nothing against him getting what he wants but if it's amax contract, let him go somewhere else.

He's been consistent throughout. Believe what you want but McDonough isn't dumb he isn't going to let other teams know what amount the Suns won't match and lose leverage.

 

[Finito]

It's starting to look like a D'Antoni team. I'm really not impressed with this draft who knows maybe they did try and move up and no one was jumping to trade back but Chicago traded up for McBuckets. The last thing this team needed was a 6'2 point guard. By the way I damn near broke my TV last year when they drafted Len that dude needs to show something this year

I just don't know

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's starting to look like a D'Antoni team. I'm really not impressed with this draft who knows maybe they did try and move up and no one was jumping to trade back but Chicago traded up for McBuckets. The last thing this team needed was a 6'2 point guard. By the way I damn near broke my TV last year when they drafted Len that dude needs to show something this year

I just don't know

Based on what? The fact that our Head Coach raved about the defense Warren played when we brought him in? Or was it the fact we drafted Ennis who as a freshman made the 2nd team all defense ACC team? This team clearly worked on defense last season and that alone takes them out of the Dantoni conversation.

We do look closer to being a Dantoni kind of team than we do a Thibodeau team but I think we have pretty good balance and I'll take balance over a great defense or a great offense. A lot of our immediate future will depend on whether Len actually becomes an NBA quality center in the next couple of years. Even if he does we still need to eventually upgrade the power forward spot. Frye was a much better team defender than credited on this board but he's a poor rebounder and fails when he's forced to guard the real big men in the league (fortunately there aren't too many of them).

Anyway, I like the progress we're making. I don't expect to win it all any time soon but I think we're adding assets and developing a core to build around. I like Bledsoe and Dragic but it remains to be seen whether either of them can develop into the best player on a championship contender. But, even it they aren't quite that level, I do think they are good enough to be the stars playing alongside a great player.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Based on what? The fact that our Head Coach raved about the defense Warren played when we brought him in? Or was it the fact we drafted Ennis who as a freshman made the 2nd team all defense ACC team? This team clearly worked on defense last season and that alone takes them out of the Dantoni conversation.

We do look closer to being a Dantoni kind of team than we do a Thibodeau team but I think we have pretty good balance and I'll take balance over a great defense or a great offense. A lot of our immediate future will depend on whether Len actually becomes an NBA quality center in the next couple of years. Even if he does we still need to eventually upgrade the power forward spot. Frye was a much better team defender than credited on this board but he's a poor rebounder and fails when he's forced to guard the real big men in the league (fortunately there aren't too many of them).


Steve

I see both sides. This team obviously cares much more about defense and the type of players we are bringing in proves that. However, I also agree that it appears that we are undersized which is where I think the D'Antoni comparison is coming from. Any team that fields "Frye" type as your center needs to shore up it's interior. He spends too much time in the lineup as a Center which is not good.

Completely agree with you though that I would rather see a well balanced team versus the top scoring team with zero defense or a defensive team that can't score. Start with a solid defensive core and add scorers. D'Antoni's approach would be to field a offensive team and add defenders.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Its kind of funny how much hand wringing goes on between the draft and free agency, when rosters are still in flux.

Its kind of like watching your mom bake a cake when you were a kid. You look at all those runny eggs and lard and flower and can't see how that ever could end up good.

 

[Sci Fi]

He's been consistent throughout. Believe what you want but McDonough isn't dumb he isn't going to let other teams know what amount the Suns won't match and lose leverage.

He's not been consistent. He's used the word reasonable. It's not a question of belief, unless he was quoted incorrectly. BTW, his words mean nothing to other teams. There is no leverage here. They'll pay what they feel they need to.

 

[Phrazbit]

He's not been consistent. He's used the word reasonable. It's not a question of belief, unless he was quoted incorrectly. BTW, his words mean nothing to other teams. There is no leverage here. They'll pay what they feel they need to.

No, there is a bit of leverage there. The Suns learned about it when they (stupidly) signed Eric Gordon a few years ago, New Orleans had said all along they'd match, and they did... but only after using every possible second the NBA allows them to drag out the process, which tied up the majority of the Suns cap space for a week in the middle of free agency.

In a free agency market as ripe as this one I do not doubt that some teams wont want to risk missing out on other big targets as they sweat out if the Suns were serious about matching any offer.

 

[KloD]

No, there is a bit of leverage there. The Suns learned about it when they (stupidly) signed Eric Gordon a few years ago, New Orleans had said all along they'd match, and they did... but only after using every possible second the NBA allows them to drag out the process, which tied up the majority of the Suns cap space for a week in the middle of free agency.

In a free agency market as ripe as this one I do not doubt that some teams wont want to risk missing out on other big targets as they sweat out if the Suns were serious about matching any offer.

Correct. Plus, even though it's been shortened to 3 days from 7, it's still a long time to ask another free agent to hold with a maybe we'll make you an offer when they could jump on a sure thing before that.