Thsi team is still every bit as bad as it was under coach Mac!

[Shane]

regardless of stats Shane - you know what I saw - A Cardinal team that had the LEAD going into the fourth and was one play away from having an 8 point lead midway into the fourth. Again - what kind of expectations do you have for this team that was the WORST TEAM IN ARIZONA CARDINAL HISTROY LAST YEAR?

Personally - I thinkwe got our asses hand to us Sunday, but it was to be expected. I mean do you think we handed Seattle their asses last year when we completely controlled the clock and outgained them in yardage yet lost 38-0? We play a bend but don't break defense and our offense in making killer mistakes as so far those squads which are "just as bad as Mac's" have only given up THREE touchdowns - yes - that's right 3 TOUCHDOWNS - think about that for a second and compare to it to last year when at this point in the season we had given up ELEVEN - ELEVEN TOUCHDOWNS TO THREE - we are basically an exapnsion team - you need to lower your expectations and be patient here man. Hell, people wanted to run Mike Holmgren out of Seattle even though he went to the playoffs in his first year, then completely broke the team down and built it the way he wanted to - I bet those people feel kinda foolish now - the same will hapen here if we just give it time.

Again - improvement - 11 TDs vs. 3 TDs- that's a quantum leap no matter what the stats say.

is that an indictment of this team getting better or the rams being worse?

I would be willing to say the latter. neither game was close on the field. just in score only.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i cant believe the # of people that because of score alone feel we were competative?

is that really the only way many of you judge games and how a team is doing?

Shane when a team is completely outlcassed TALENT wise - hell yes - the score is a good indicator of how the game is being played - it means you are over-acheiving which is what I think we've been doing in both games. Hell - I expected a very ugly start to the season and while it's been ugly to watch - at least we've got a shot going into the fourth - something that couldn't be said last year. How else would you look at it? This team isn't that talented - especially on offense with Emmitt in because of Shipp's injury and with Boldin (one of the bst receivers in the league) out with injuries.

 

[Jttsaz]

Some improvements?
1) So far not getting blown out(atleast scorewise) on the road..or at home for that matter. Say what you want about the Run D, and about the anemic offense but the bottom line is that the Cards were 1 score away from a tie in the 4th quarter of both games. Staying in ball games until late in the game and giving the team a chance to win..
2) Special teams seems to be improved..Rackers is a stud! When was the last time the Cards had a kicker you were confident in from 50+ yards away? Scobey took a step back in the Pats game.
3) Showing some adjustments after the half..this was moreso in the St Louis game.
4) Getting some pressure from the D-Line...we got 2 sacks and multiple pressure on Brady from interior D Linemen..however there was zero pressure vs. the Rams so the jury is still out.
5) Coaching staff is willing to make changes...does not appear to "stay the course"..if things aren't working the look to fix it...easier said than done but this appears to be a big change from last year.

Things that are worse....
1) Boldin was THE playmaker on the team last year. He was a threat to take it to the house every single time he touched the ball...who can you say that about on this years squad? Noone...The Cards really need this guy to get back healthy because until then..the will have to keep scores close to even have a chance to win..No way do I see this team comming back from large deficits..
2) No Shipp...we do not have a back that can break a huge run..Emmitt has shown he can still finess his way to 7 or 8 yard scampers..but he is not gonna break off 40 or 50 yarders like Shipp did a few games last year.
3) Offensive Line was pretty poor last year but they are downright terrible this year...especially vs. the Pats. This could really be the Achilles heel of the Cardinals all season long.

Jury is still out...McCown vs. Blake...so far they are playing very similar. Blake usually always tried to make safe throws (unless playing from a large deficit). Josh seems to be doing that as well...not taking alot of chances..that changed in the second half of the Pats game. I think there is a fine line between playing safe and playing scared. All quarterbacks are gonna throw int's...Josh seems to be looking to throw high percentage throws but the results are a dink and dunk style of passing attack. It's not fair to judge him on the Pats game as 1) he had very little time to do anything and 2) a horrendous running game. To call for his head at this stage is way premature. I really believe that if we can establish some sort of running game and give Josh just a little time he could evolve into a solid qb...with playmaking ability(ala the final pass to Poole vs. the Vikes last year). Wether or not that comes to pass is still up in the air.But realistically not many qb's could have done a whole lot better in that game...especially ones with 5 starts under the belt...

The bottom line is that the Cards are 1 of 7 teams who are 0-2..and they are staring 0-3 in the face...an 0-3 start statistically virtually assures no playoffs...and the odds of this team magically getting it all together by Sunday is virtually nil. This will be a tough game and even a close loss would begin to wear down the psyche of this team. Still...realistically if we can show some improvement on offense(especially in execution) and we can build off the intensity of the defense I think we have a chance to steal one in Atlanta. Going 3-0 is difficult for teams in the NFL and the Falcons are sure to be overconfident facing what they believe is the weakest team in the NFC West(and maybe the NFL).

 

[AZCB34]

that's BS on the Rams game - we were forcing turnovers and flying around the field plain and simple. The Pats game wasn't as close as the score would indicate, but they were still playing hard and bottom line - it was a one possession game midway through the fourth when McCown really looked bad - the play that killed me was that drag he threw to Fitz who defintely would have had a first on 3rd and long if the ball wasn't thrown at his knees.

Cheesie, the Rams were driving the ball on us at will. Yes, the Cards made plays (and believe me, I was encouraged by the effort being given) but if not for the Rams shooting themselves in the foot and Martz posting his usual number of head-scratching decisions, that game could have EASILY been a rout.

 

[Shane]

Last year we gave up over three touchdowns per game. Dead last in defense.
Last year we only got 23 turnovers on defense. We're on pace for 48 this year.

It's an aggresive defense. It's going to give up yards. But I'll take turnovers and an actual game in the fourth quarter over the frustration of the last regime's defense.

i will make you a bet. the way this defense is headed ill bet you we dont attain over 25 TOs for the season?

 

[SECTION 11]

i will make you a bet. the way this defense is headed ill bet you we dont attain over 25 TOs for the season?

I'm game. How about a jersey? Not the $200 variety, but your standard, run of the mill one? They're about $80 or so.

 

[joeshmo]

just in score only.

And that is all that matters.

 

[Jttsaz]

just in score only.

But Shane...the score is the only thing that matters...I would take giving up tons of yards and few points over the opposite any day of the week. Now that being said, the lack of run defense does point to greater problems...

 

[Shane]

I'm game. How about a jersey? Not the $200 variety, but your standard, run of the mill one? They're about $80 or so.

done deal!

 

[D-Dogg]

i will make you a bet. the way this defense is headed ill bet you we dont attain over 25 TOs for the season?

I would take that bet.

They won't get 45, but they should have 25 easy.

This is a far more aggressive unit, and there is the smolder of a pass rush fire trying to get lit. Not to mention, they are hitting harder out there than I remember, and lighting some people up. The turnovers will definitely continue to come if you play like that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

is that an indictment of this team getting better or the rams being worse?

I would be willing to say the latter. neither game was close on the field. just in score only.

as to question number 1 - both. The team is getting better and the Rams are getting worse - but remember what happened when we played BAD teams last year - 44-6 Cleveland - that team was HORRID - 42-24 - Lions - 28-10 - Steelers - that team was horrible - 28-3 Bears - BROCK FREAKING FORSNEY RAN FOR 120 AGAINST - SHEESH! that team was HORRID - 50-14 - San Fran - and they were only AVERAGE - and the beat goes on and on and on.

And we give up 17 points to a team with more talent on offense than those Lions, Cleveland, Steelers and Bears teams combined and you can't see ANYTHING different? You're expectations are WAYYYYY too hig my friend.

11tds vs. 3tds - that's improvement from the worst team in football last year.

 

[SECTION 11]

done deal!

:internethandshake:

 

[Shane]

just in score only.

But Shane...the score is the only thing that matters...I would take giving up tons of yards and few points over the opposite any day of the week. Now that being said, the lack of run defense does point to greater problems...

the score is the "only thing that matters" when you win!

when you lose it dont mean squat!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheesie, the Rams were driving the ball on us at will. Yes, the Cards made plays (and believe me, I was encouraged by the effort being given) but if not for the Rams shooting themselves in the foot and Martz posting his usual number of head-scratching decisions, that game could have EASILY been a rout.

See - I just don't agree with pulling the Martz is an idiot card out - guess what - he WAS AN IDIOT LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE THAT - and we still lost by a score of 37-13 last year when Martz was an idiot - Considering that we cut their point in half (actually more so) I'd say there was improvement there.

 

[TheCardFan]

i cant believe the # of people that because of score alone feel we were competative? The score is the true measuring stick. Stats/Shmats...we have been in each of these games = improvement. STL has won 15 in a row at home...SB Champs 16 games in a row and we were in both games into the 4th qtr. Can't you see that?

And Im still waiting for the excuses for the CBs 10 yard cushions again in this game??? Anyone??? Are you saying it was the wrong thing to do in STL? IMO, we played alot more zone against NE and who do we have to cover 5 solid wr's and a very good TE, while trying to stop Corey Dillon? 16 teams in a row couldn't figure out that riddle (not including the playoffs - 18/19?) and you want to be critical of us?

Too funny.

 

[joeshmo]

done deal!

Only 19 more to go till you have to pay up. That means they have to only create 1.36 turnovers per game from here on out. We should make this a sticky and do a count down. I say he has to pay up by game 14.

 

[Jttsaz]

the score is the "only thing that matters" when you win!

when you lose it dont mean squat!

It does when your betting

Really you are right w/l are the only important stat...however the Cardinals are starting from rock bottom...you asked wether or not this team was any better than last year's team...so based on w/l record after 2 games...I would have to say no. However based on how the games were played I think defensively and on special teams this years squad is better...offensively this years team is about the same...where this offense is better is that they are not turning the ball over as much...what was the Cards T/O margin in the first 2 games last year? There were a ton...the turnover margin is the biggest reason the Cards were in the first 2 games this year, and consequently the biggest improvement over last years team.

 

[Shane]

Are you saying it was the wrong thing to do in STL? IMO, we played alot more zone against NE and who do we have to cover 5 solid wr's and a very good TE, while trying to stop Corey Dillon? 16 teams in a row couldn't figure out that riddle (not including the playoffs - 18/19?) and you want to be critical of us?

Too funny.

and their off!

i knew the excuses would come in!

yes im critical. we are still an nfl team last i checked. i am critical after seeing two games not just the last one.

ok when we start giving 10 yards cushions against every team we play this year what will be your excuse? people bitched all year last year about the cushion. but now this year its the smart thing to do? makes sense to me

 

[SECTION 11]

Only 19 more to go till you have to pay up. That means they have to only create 1.36 turnovers per game from here on out. We should make this a sticky and do a count down. I say he has to pay up by game 14.

Last years stats show that I think five teams ended up with less than 25.
In 2002 only one team that I saw had less.
Getting six against the Rams and Pats bodes well I think.

 

[AZCB34]

See - I just don't agree with pulling the Martz is an idiot card out - guess what - he WAS AN IDIOT LAST YEAR AND THE YEAR BEFORE THAT - and we still lost by a score of 37-13 last year when Martz was an idiot - Considering that we cut their point in half (actually more so) I'd say there was improvement there.

I agree with you in the fact the effort level seemed alot better so I guess in that respect I will give you an improvement mark but the cards were not in the Rams game. The Rams were just driving the ball right down the Cards throats all game and unlike last year, where the intensity level may not have been there, the closeness of this years game illuminated the Bulger/Martz things alot more. Martz, if he used his brain could have just mauled the cards on the scoreboard...and I think you know that.

I just don't think the score accurately portrayed the actual game on the field. Even when the cards took that lead, I knew that lead was going to be short-lived because we had yet to REALLY stop STL.

 

[TheCardFan]

and their off!

i knew the excuses would come in!

yes im critical. we are still an nfl team last i checked. i am critical after seeing two games not just the last one.

ok when we start giving 10 yards cushions against every team we play this year what will be your excuse? people bitched all year last year about the cushion. but now this year its the smart thing to do? makes sense to me

Shane...if you just want to be controversial...fine, but don't try to mask it with silly comments and crazy statements.

Do you really think we will give 10 yards of cushion to every team in the NFL?

Do you really not see that these two games the past several years would have been both blow-outs?

The difference is we have a bonafide NFL coach with a system. He is trying to overcome a lack of talent and depth that has occured over several years. If you can't see the big picture and the direction we are headed...you will by seasons end.

 

[TRW]

Tastes great!!! Less filling!!!

These arguments always crack me up

At 0-2 I don't think any Cardinal fan can be happy with that. BUT, I think we can see some areas that show some sign of a change. Instead of the cornpone "One heartbeat" mantra coming from the head coach's grill we actually have some "heart" being shown ON THE FIELD!!!! Especially on the defensive side of the ball. Instead of the "Aw shucks, I'm so dern proud of my guys but I let 'em down today" coming from the head coach's grill we have a coach who isn't afraid to speak out the truth on bad play by the unit or player responsible. Instead of a set roster coming out of camp NEVER to be changed except by injury, we see a head coach who will make changes when something isn't working. Depending on one's viewpoint, those changes are right or wrong in one's opinion.

I don't know if all of that makes this team "better" "just as bad" or "worse" than any of Mac's, time will tell on that. I know that there is a change in effort this year from the past few under Mac. Change that IMO is "better" than what I've seen in years past...SO FAR....but there's still a long, long way to go. If the team "lays down" half way through the year, then there will really be no change from years past. If it doesn't and plays hard like it has so far, then IMO that would be "better" than a Mac team. Others may, and surely will, see it different than I do. And, by golly, that's OK

I, for one, am enjoying this season more than any in years! Go Cards!!!!

 

[DKCards]

I guess it is all how you look at it. Yes they are 0 and 2 but they played the Rams at home (at least 13 straight wins at home) and the Super Bowl champs. The run defense gave up a ton of yards and the offense did absolutely nothing. That being said they were one play away from ending the Ram’s home win streak and within 5 points of NE in the 4th quarter and had the ball. The way I look at it is that they were competitive with both teams scoreboard wise. They played poorly but were still in the games. That is a major improvement right there. Last year they had to play perfectly to have any chance at all and already twice this year we were far from perfect but still competitive.



Both Offense and Defense are running new schemes that they are still learning. I don’t see how both sides of the ball won’t improve some as the year goes on but I feel that the offense will have the most improvement. Offense is Green’s specialty. If anyone can fix it I think he is the one to do it. You can sense Green is frustrated with the offense right now but he is not the type to just sit back and accept that it is bad. He will keep pressing and making changes until it does improve. I guess that is another improvement over last year.



Now if the defense doesn’t improve at all but the offense gets even a little better some wins are going to start to come. But what do I know. I have been drinking that kool-aid since the Cards came to AZ.

http://master.mx-targeting.com/mx/s...gdt=1094857415434&lflshdt=1094857358&lstkywd=

 

[ASUCHRIS]

This argument is just insane. WE ARE TWO GAMES INTO THE SEASON!!! The last two teams we have played have 15 game win streaks (St. Louis reg. season) and 17 games (defending super bowl champs). This team is absolutely gutted, on offense and defense. While everyone is bitching about the offensive line, it is quite clear that things will change, especially personnel. Since some people are looking at last year's offensive line from rosy glasses, grab a tape of the Dallas game last year to see a real o-line performance....

Let's see what offensive and defensive starters that aren't playing:

Boldin - top five reciever in terms of performance last year
Shipp - undoubtedly the best RB on the team
L.J. Shelton - best OL-man, his back must be really messed up

Defense:

Dexter Jackson - possibly our best defensive player last year
Ray Thompson - a close second
Kenny King - a playmaker at our most needed position

I am well aware that most teams are going through injury issues, but these are crippling losses on both sides of the ball, and everyone here knows that playmakers are what make or break the game; we don't even need to get into what kind of shape Fitz and BJ are in.....

I choose to be satisfied for the time being with competitiveness, considering the circumstances, as long as we are moving in the right direction, and I believe that most on the board share these sentiments.

 

[binkar]

Someone please list the improvements this team has made??? The O-line still sucks even with the coaching change. In fact Im to the point where I almost feel the O-line is worse. They cant pick up any kind of blitz to save their freaking lives! Wasnt Emmitt supposed to be able to solve this problem

We committ the dumbest penalties at the worst possible times.

Our D-line while is a little better at applying some pressure(just a little) is now arguably the worst run D in the entire NFL. The run D is absolutely horrible! Dockett and Kolodjiez constantly get manhandled on running downs!

Our WRs including Fitz cannot get any kind of separation from the DBs. Thats just depressing to considering the new enforcement of illegal contact and defensive holding.

Our CBs cant cover anyone even when there is more pressure. WRs are constantly open for big gains. Especially when its 3rd and 10 and is usually in the Ds favor. Well not in our case. We still give 10 yard cushions to a team that isnt known for big play WRs. That was the excuse against the Rams. Whats the excuse for it this week??????

Ahhh Im so glad people love moral victories and say things like "we gave the SB champs a few scary moments" Big whoopty freaking doo!

This team is in serious need of a talent infusion. If people cant see that they need to open their eyes a little more when they watch the games!

With all that being said I will be in front of the TV every Sunday rooting my ass off for them to prove me wrong!