Tidbit about Mahomes getting drafted ahead of the Cards' pick

[daves]

In an Athletic story on what the Saints need to do to rebuild going forward, Michael Lombardi buried this interesting tidbit:

Payton was trying to move higher in the 2017 draft to acquire Patrick Mahomes when Brees was still playing well. The Chiefs knew they needed to outfox the Saints in that draft, they had strong intel of the Saints’ interest, and knew that any leaking of their intentions might have ruined their master plan. (The Mahomes backchanneling drafting might make a wonderful NFL documentary, as the entire story and ramifications have yet to be told in honest detail.)

To the speculation regarding whether Keim wanted Watson or Mahomes, apparently we can now add intrigue regarding the Chiefs big trade-up, how they knew the Saints were interested, and whether Keim could've / should've had that same intel.

...dave

 

[vince56]

Remember pre draft Mayock said the cards would trade for pick 32 and draft Mahomes? Good times.

Edit: found the link:

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[HGC]

I honestly don’t buy it from either team. The Bengals reached big time on John Ross so moving up from #13 or #11 to the Bengals pick at #9 should have been easily attainable at a reasonable price for NO or the Cardinals.

 

[Solar7]

I honestly don’t buy it from either team. The Bengals reached big time on John Ross so moving up from #13 or #11 to the Bengals pick at #9 should have been easily attainable at a reasonable price for NO or the Cardinals.

Hindsight is 20/20. I mean, would they have really wanted to move all the way back to 27?

I mean, Ross was kind of a reach, but it's obvious that Bengals team wanted to upgrade the offense, and wouldn't have done that at a much later pick. I figure the Cards imagined they would be able to get Mahomes or Watson by standing pat, even if they knew the Saints liked Mahomes.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I have gotten to the frame of mind that most of the time it doesn't matter who the Cards passed on. With our coaching they would not have turned out as they did or would otherwise. I used to think we were just choosing the wrong guy in most spots. But now I think it goes deeper than that.

I really wonder how many draftees are told or are the frame of mind that if they are drafted by the Cards they will never reach their full potential.

 

[overseascardfan]

It's been mentioned before but if Kingsbury couldn't win with a talent like Mahomes in college then how is he going to win even with Murray?

Andy Reid's tutelage has led taken Mahomes talent and made him a star. You get Murray into the hands of an offensive guru and this team may have the same success BAL has with Jackson.

 

[Finito]

It's been mentioned before but if Kingsbury couldn't win with a talent like Mahomes in college then how is he going to win even with Murray?

Andy Reid's tutelage has led taken Mahomes talent and made him a star. You get Murray into the hands of an offensive guru and this team may have the same success BAL has with Jackson.

Because Mahomes wasn’t who is now in college.

 

[overseascardfan]

Because Mahomes wasn’t who is now in college.

Yeah, because of Andy Reid.

My underlying point is KK is not going to succeed here.

 

[HairZach]

Because Mahomes wasn’t who is now in college.

This is so false. The two years Mahomes was the full time starter Texas Tech was #2 and #1 in scoring offense. You could tell he was special then. People who didn't watch him dismissed his numbers because of Mike Leach's track record with QBs in the NFL. This wasn't the same as the Mike Leach years, where anyone in the system put up huge numbers. The spread had been around for more than a decade and had been adjusted to.

People think that Kliff can win with Murray "even though he couldn't win with Mahomes" since he lost because of defense, not misusing Mahomes. The Mahomes years they had the 2nd worst and worst defense in the nation.

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Here's some proof of Mahomes being special in college and also some insight into the kind of players Kliff had at Tech. Go to 7 minutes if you want the most obvious example of Mahomes magic. This was a fun one. Bowl game. 5 loss Texas Tech vs. 3 loss LSU. TTech is totally outmatched, it's obvious from the first snap. Hell, its obvious from when they marched out the tunnel. The LSU players just so look different. LSU outclassses Tech at every position but one.

LSU ends up by blowing them out, but Tech made it interesting until late in the 3rd quarter almost entirely due to Mahomes doing magic tricks and a 5'6" speedster burning one of the best secondaries in CFB (I think this is why Kliff liked Isabella).

Andy Reid is a much better coach than Kliffy but I refuse to give him credit for Mahomes talent. Mahomes was just a once in a lifetime prospect.

 

[Finito]

This is so false. The two years Mahomes was the full time starter Texas Tech was #2 and #1 in scoring offense. You could tell he was special then. People who didn't watch him dismissed his numbers because of Mike Leach's track record with QBs in the NFL. This wasn't the same as the Mike Leach years, where anyone in the system put up huge numbers. The spread had been around for more than a decade and had been adjusted to.

People think that Kliff can win with Murray "even though he couldn't win with Mahomes" since he lost because of defense, not misusing Mahomes. The Mahomes years they had the 2nd worst and worst defense in the nation.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Here's some proof of Mahomes being special in college and also some insight into the kind of players Kliff had at Tech. Go to 7 minutes if you want the most obvious example of Mahomes magic. This was a fun one. Bowl game. 5 loss Texas Tech vs. 3 loss LSU. TTech is totally outmatched, it's obvious from the first snap. Hell, its obvious from when they marched out the tunnel. The LSU players just so look different. LSU outclassses Tech at every position but one.

LSU ends up by blowing them out, but Tech made it interesting until late in the 3rd quarter almost entirely due to Mahomes doing magic tricks and a 5'6" speedster burning one of the best secondaries in CFB (I think this is why Kliff liked Isabella).

Andy Reid is a much better coach than Kliffy but I refuse to give him credit for Mahomes talent. Mahomes was just a once in a lifetime prospect.

Oh yeah that’s why he got picked where he got picked huh.

aaaand that ends your argument

 

[BritCard]

In an Athletic story on what the Saints need to do to rebuild going forward, Michael Lombardi buried this interesting tidbit:

To the speculation regarding whether Keim wanted Watson or Mahomes, apparently we can now add intrigue regarding the Chiefs big trade-up, how they knew the Saints were interested, and whether Keim could've / should've had that same intel.

...dave

They never wanted either. You never, ever wait for a QB you like to fall to you. If they wanted Mahomes or Watson they would and could have moved up to get him.

They could have traded with the Bengals up to #9 for little cost and the Bengals could have still got John Ross at #13.

That was some revisionist BS by BA when he said Mahomes was one of the top 3 smartest QB's he met and that they were going to take him at 13. I suppose when you're doing color commentary a bunch of the color is made up.

 

[juza76]

They never wanted either. You never, ever wait for a QB you like to fall to you. If they wanted Mahomes or Watson they would and could have moved up to get him.

They could have traded with the Bengals up to #9 for little cost and the Bengals could have still got John Ross at #13.

That was some revisionist BS by BA when he said Mahomes was one of the top 3 smartest QB's he met and that they were going to take him at 13. I suppose when you're doing color commentary a bunch of the color is made up.

Arians is a great coach but I don't know why is considered a qb whisperer, his success came with Roethlisberger, the best qb college ever Luck, Tom Brady Carson Palmer
He just try to justify the fact they didn't think Mahomes was enough great, and it's a big question mark for a supposed to be a qb guru
We were in the perfect situation to trade up for Mahomes, even if we would have to invest a future first round pick

 

[Bkbobo]

Arians is a great coach but I don't know why is considered a qb whisperer, his success came with Roethlisberger, the best qb college ever Luck, Tom Brady Carson Palmer
He just try to justify the fact they didn't think Mahomes was enough great, and it's a big question mark for a supposed to be a qb guru
We were in the perfect situation to trade up for Mahomes, even if we would have to invest a future first round pick

And I believe he coached Manning for a season. I agree, I like BA as a coach, but I could seem like a QB whisper if I had those QBs to work with.

 

[football karma]

a few possibilities -- none of them flattering:

1. BA made clear prior to the draft that they would consider a QB. Lets assume they were telling the truth. Tt was then an utter failure to let the two they liked get snapped up ahead of them. Also total failure to let everyone know they had to get ahead of you.

2. Lets assume the "we want a QB" was a smoke screen because they were living for the SB window and wanted their 1st pick to contribute right away. i have two problems with that:

Problem 1: they had a gaping hole at the CB position opposite P2. Keim says CB is a premium position. This was a great CB draft -- almost like the OT draft last year where there were 4 players all highly rated, and whose order really depended on what you liked: Lattimore, Marlon Humphrey, Adoree Jackson and Tradavious White. Nope

Problem 2: Keim talks about QB being the most important position -- yet somehow he or Mike B got talked into living for the moment when 2 QBs were coming into draft range for a small price.

 

[Ronin]

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[football karma]

Arians was on with Doug/Wolf last week ( you can probably still find it at the 98.7 podcast highlight page)

per his telling, the team was surprised by KC and Hou trading up ahead of them

BA said they were certain that one of Mahomes/Watson would fall to them, even when KC traded up "they already have a QB"

 

[Solar7]

For those of you who keep insisting we had an easy path to move up, we really didn't. Two first round picks were offered and we didn't have that kind of ammunition. Hindsight is wonderful, but this board and the national media would have been in full meltdown for us to give up a first to move up three picks for our backup QB.

 

[Stout]

For those of you who keep insisting we had an easy path to move up, we really didn't. Two first round picks were offered and we didn't have that kind of ammunition. Hindsight is wonderful, but this board and the national media would have been in full meltdown for us to give up a first to move up three picks for our backup QB.

I still don't buy it would've been hard to trade up. Two first round picks AND A SIGNIFICANT DROP in draft order were offered. Moving up a spot or two wouldn't have been nearly as costly. But, hey, trade the current 1st and next year's first for who you think is the QBOF? In a heartbeat, under many circumstances.

 

[DVontel]

For those of you who keep insisting we had an easy path to move up, we really didn't. Two first round picks were offered and we didn't have that kind of ammunition. Hindsight is wonderful, but this board and the national media would have been in full meltdown for us to give up a first to move up three picks for our backup QB.

I remember you were so against trading up & wanting to swing the bat for Kirk Cousins. What a time.

 

[jf-08]

I still don't buy it would've been hard to trade up. Two first round picks AND A SIGNIFICANT DROP in draft order were offered. Moving up a spot or two wouldn't have been nearly as costly. But, hey, trade the current 1st and next year's first for who you think is the QBOF? In a heartbeat, under many circumstances.

We did that the next year with Rosen.

 

[Stout]

We did that the next year with Rosen.

And I was good with that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For those of you who keep insisting we had an easy path to move up, we really didn't. Two first round picks were offered and we didn't have that kind of ammunition. Hindsight is wonderful, but this board and the national media would have been in full meltdown for us to give up a first to move up three picks for our backup QB.

You’re right. And if mahomes turned out to be even a fraction of what he’s become that meltdown would’ve been completely forgotten and keim would be a hero instead of a zero.

 

[GatorAZ]

Makes me salty every time it gets brought up. Your QB is 37 and two teams that just made the playoffs are more aggressive than you.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Makes me salty every time it gets brought up. Your QB is 37 and two teams that just made the playoffs are more aggressive than you.

Except Keim probably had Mahomes rated as a 3rd rounder.

 

[Stout]

Except Keim probably had Mahomes rated as a 3rd rounder.

It's funny because it's true.