Timberwolves at Suns

[82CardsGrad]

They were speculating on 98.7 this morning, based upon Ryan McD's comments that in the off season there may be something between a roster "tweak" and a "major overhaul", that the Morri are out of here this Summer. They said the team may be keeping quiet on their dis-satisfaction with them to keep from scaring other teams off.

I wasn't going to mention the attitude/character element of the Morrii as DWKB is already heavily KU biased. But, since you brought it up... To me, beyond all of their short-comings on the court, their piss-poor and selfish attitudes are the worst thing about them. They are cancerous to a team. They don't add value to the chemistry, they detract from the TEAM.
I would be surprised if they are on this roster next season...

 

[Joe Mama]

When your Point Guards are shooters first, isn't this what happens to a team? The rest stand around.

Earlier it was Bledsoe and Thomas (Dragic was 3rd in that 2-man PG rotation).

Now it has been Bledsoe and Knight.

There were posts at the time that this would happen to the rest of the team.

And, evidently, Jeff is too much a part of it to lead any other approach. Even if he were a strong leader. Which he has not shown himself to be.

The Suns Front Office created ball-hog backcourts and now the rest of the team is paying the price.

they aren't ball hogs. In fact Bledsoe passes on open shots way too much and for some reason he has started doing his best Boris Diaw impression at the rim this year, trying to throw bailout passes as soon as there's any contact instead of taking the foul. They just aren't point guards… at least not Bledsoe. I wish Bledsoe would shoot more.

Joe

 

[AzStevenCal]

they aren't ball hogs. In fact Bledsoe passes on open shots way too much and for some reason he has started doing his best Boris Diaw impression at the rim this year, trying to throw bailout passes as soon as there's any contact instead of taking the foul. They just aren't point guards… at least not Bledsoe. I wish Bledsoe would shoot more.

Joe

Eric sometimes eminds me of a little kid playing grown up. Trying hard to do all the right things but just not quite able to. I don't think he's selfish in any way. I believe he wants to win and he wants to earn his paycheck and he's struggling to figure out how to do those things. If he doesn't improve, he's still a very good player but clearly not the right choice to lead a contending team. I still have hope that he'll get there though.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Point Guards struggle when the offense overall struggles with movement and so on.
I can name countless examples of this, eg Nash under Terry Porter. John Wall on the Wizards for a long time..

There are very very few PGs who do not struggle if the offense has terrible spacing and player movement. Especially PGs of the attacking variety like Bledsoe.

 

[slinslin]

I wasn't going to mention the attitude/character element of the Morrii as DWKB is already heavily KU biased. But, since you brought it up... To me, beyond all of their short-comings on the court, their piss-poor and selfish attitudes are the worst thing about them. They are cancerous to a team. They don't add value to the chemistry, they detract from the TEAM.
I would be surprised if they are on this roster next season...

The Morrii selfish? I think you are just blind, stupid and full of hate.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The Morrii selfish? I think you are just blind, stupid and full of hate.

Blind? Nah... Stupid? Could be... [emoji1]. Full of hate? Definitely not. [emoji6]

 

[82CardsGrad]

Eric sometimes eminds me of a little kid playing grown up. Trying hard to do all the right things but just not quite able to. I don't think he's selfish in any way. I believe he wants to win and he wants to earn his paycheck and he's struggling to figure out how to do those things. If he doesn't improve, he's still a very good player but clearly not the right choice to lead a contending team. I still have hope that he'll get there though.



Steve

I think that's about as accurate a description of Bledsoe as I've seen...

 

[Errntknght]

The Morrii selfish? I think you are just blind, stupid and full of hate.

I don't think the Morri are particularly selfish but that response was way over the top, slin. Even for you.

 

[Absolute Zero]

I don't think the Morri are particularly selfish but that response was way over the top, slin. Even for you.

So over the top that I thought he was being sarcastic! Wow.

82 is good people!

 

[sunsfan88]

Finally, we agree on something. It WAS great leadership. He's kept his mouth shut all season but we could all see there was a problem. Goran tried to do his part by hinting about this problem so it's nice to see Eric make it an issue too. I miss the days when problems such as this one could be handled in the locker room but those days disappeared more than a decade ago. Now, we have coaches writing tell-all books and player's moms calling out management, a short comment like this one is no big deal. I doubt it will make a difference but if it gets Marcus, Tucker and others to start moving without the ball it could make a huge difference down the road.

Steve

I'm with you on this one. I loved Bledsoe saying that. He's calling out the idiots like Green, Marcus, Tucker and Kieff who all stand outside staring at Bledsoe in every half court possession.

 

[82CardsGrad]

82 is good people!

 

[Joe Mama]

Yeah, classy response 82.

 

[BC867]

I'm with you on this one. I loved Bledsoe saying that. He's calling out the idiots like Green, Marcus, Tucker and Kieff who all stand outside staring at Bledsoe in every half court possession.

A shoot-first Point Guard calling out four players for standing around (even if they are "idiots")?!?

That inevitability was predicted from the start of the season with Bledsoe and Thomas as our first two Point Guards. And the major roster changes didn't change a thing.

 

[Joe Mama]

A shoot-first Point Guard calling out four players for standing around (even if they are "idiots")?!?

That inevitability was predicted from the start of the season with Bledsoe and Thomas as our first two Point Guards. And the major roster changes didn't change a thing.

again, the problem is not that he is a "shoot first" point guard. That's not a problem at all. The problem is he's not a point guard. He lacks the ballhandling and passing skills. At this point the team would be better if he did shoot the ball more and if he would stop trying to pass at the last second when he goes to the basket. If anything he is too passive for stretches of the game, usually in the first half. Isaiah Thomas is a shoot first point guard. Bledsoe is an athlete. He's not a good playmaker. I don't know if it's Brandon Knight, but they need somebody else in the back court who's going to play the point guard role most of the time. He should be the secondary playmaker/ball handler in the back court. That was a lot of problem when we had Dragic and Thomas. They made Bledsoe the primary ball handler too often, especially down the stretch. I understand the logic because the other two are better shooters and spread the floor, but again Bledsoe was a distant third best as a ball handler/playmaker.

Joe

 

[Phrazbit]

A shoot-first Point Guard calling out four players for standing around (even if they are "idiots")?!?

That inevitability was predicted from the start of the season with Bledsoe and Thomas as our first two Point Guards. And the major roster changes didn't change a thing.

You're really forcing things to fit your narrative.

First off, Dragic is as much a shoot first PG as any of the other guys we've used.

Secondly, no matter who has the ball its on each individual player to move around and put themselves in position to receive passes and take shots. Virtually every team in the league has a "shoot first" guy as their primary ball handler. Guys standing around with their thumbs in their butts is their own doing.

 

[SirStefan32]

again, the problem is not that he is a "shoot first" point guard. That's not a problem at all. The problem is he's not a point guard. He lacks the ballhandling and passing skills. At this point the team would be better if he did shoot the ball more and if he would stop trying to pass at the last second when he goes to the basket. If anything he is too passive for stretches of the game, usually in the first half. Isaiah Thomas is a shoot first point guard. Bledsoe is an athlete. He's not a good playmaker. I don't know if it's Brandon Knight, but they need somebody else in the back court who's going to play the point guard role most of the time. He should be the secondary playmaker/ball handler in the back court. That was a lot of problem when we had Dragic and Thomas. They made Bledsoe the primary ball handler too often, especially down the stretch. I understand the logic because the other two are better shooters and spread the floor, but again Bledsoe was a distant third best as a ball handler/playmaker.

Joe

Very true. The problem is that he can't shoot, and is too small to be a shooting guard. Undersized shooting guard that can't shoot is what Bledsoe is. That's a guy with the sixth-man ceiling, not someone you build around, and not someone you make your first option.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Very true. The problem is that he can't shoot, and is too small to be a shooting guard. Undersized shooting guard that can't shoot is what Bledsoe is. That's a guy with the sixth-man ceiling, not someone you build around, and not someone you make your first option.

There are a lot of players in the NBA that wish they couldn't shoot like Bledsoe. He had a real bad month early in the season but take a look at his stats, he's been very efficient for quite awhile now. He's raised his 3 point percentage from somewhere around 25% to just over 35% and his 2 point percentage is now just shy of the 50% mark. He's not Steve Nash but "can't shoot" misses the mark.

Steve

 

[BC867]

again, the problem is not that he is a "shoot first" point guard. That's not a problem at all. The problem is he's not a point guard. He lacks the ballhandling and passing skills.

I was being kind. You're right! At 6'1"-195, Bledsoe is Point Guard by default (until Thomas at 5'9"-185 took the floor), but without the instincts of a Point Guard.

You're really forcing things to fit your narrative.

First off, Dragic is as much a shoot first PG as any of the other guys we've used.

Secondly, no matter who has the ball its on each individual player to move around and put themselves in position to receive passes and take shots. Virtually every team in the league has a "shoot first" guy as their primary ball handler. Guys standing around with their thumbs in their butts is their own doing.

I guess you don't think I was being kind.

Apparently, no matter what opinion is posted, one of the group is going to think I didn't go far enough and another, that I went too far.

I do disagree with the second paragraph of your post. A team with a Point Guard who tends to not make the rest of the team better is going to indeed cause standing around.

That concept has existed in the NBA for a long time.

The recent examples of Bledsoe throwing line drive passes at Len's knees or passing out of desperation while in the air give the rest of the team no confidence in how he is going to help them do their job (which is the primary responsibility of a Point Guard).

It doesn't give the fans confidence either.

 

[Errntknght]

You're really forcing things to fit your narrative.

First off, Dragic is as much a shoot first PG as any of the other guys we've used.

Secondly, no matter who has the ball its on each individual player to move around and put themselves in position to receive passes and take shots. Virtually every team in the league has a "shoot first" guy as their primary ball handler. Guys standing around with their thumbs in their butts is their own doing.

I'm basically with you and Joe Mama that one of our problems is that we don't have a PG to run the team. It surprises me a bit that you two didn't complain about giving up Ennis in the Knight trade. It goes back to another thing where McD and Hornacek were not in synch enough - they drafted Ennis and kept him around over half a season and didn't bother to find out how good he was. The only reason to draft him was at least a hunch that three combo guards might have difficulty running a reasonably efficient halfcourt offense - even without the territorial disputes.

I don't have much hope for Brandon Knight evolving into a capable PG even though he believes that is his calling. For starters his Assist/TO ratio is lower than Bled's and I haven't seen a counter indication that that is an accurate representation of his skill. In another offense maybe but not ours - not this one, anyway.

I think we're stuck as long as Jeff is running the show - with Ennis around I felt we had a migration path to a more sane half court offense but now it is going require a major change in the offense - and Jeff has shown no inclination to introduce even minor changes. Heck, Dragic and Bledsoe at their best never looked like the backcourt of a contender to me - well, maybe flashes here and there. A year later it looks like we're in the same boat except now we are overpaying Bledsoe and Knight is going to be merciless in his demands, I'm sure - careerwise its the right time to make his push for the big bucks.

 

[Phrazbit]

I was being kind. You're right! At 6'1"-195, Bledsoe is Point Guard by default (until Thomas at 5'9"-185 took the floor), but without the instincts of a Point Guard.


I guess you don't think I was being kind.

Apparently, no matter what opinion is posted, one of the group is going to think I didn't go far enough and another, that I went too far.

I do disagree with the second paragraph of your post. A team with a Point Guard who tends to not make the rest of the team better is going to indeed cause standing around.

That concept has existed in the NBA for a long time.

The recent examples of Bledsoe throwing line drive passes at Len's knees or passing out of desperation while in the air give the rest of the team no confidence in how he is going to help them do their job (which is the primary responsibility of a Point Guard).

It doesn't give the fans confidence either.

You completely exaggerated my point. I never claimed the PG has zero effect on movement, but if guys are standing around, not moving and just waiting to jack up a 3 while doing nothing to get open, thats on them. Its not like Bledsoe is an unwilling passer, but he is not a magnificent one either, which is all the more reason guys need to be making an effort to create space to get looks. And the off ball guys we're discussing (the Morrii, Tucker, Green) they were doing the same stuff when Dragic was handling the ball. The problem is far more rooted in the guys off the ball than with the ball handler.

 

[Phrazbit]

As far as Ennis goes, the Bucks have been giving him minutes and his turnover ratio is even worse than Bledsoe's. He is a ways away from being productive, if he ever gets there, and I suspect the Suns decided to cash him in rather than letting him waste away for the next few years.

I'd rather have him than not, he is still very young and may come around, but I'm not too broken up about it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There are a lot of players in the NBA that wish they couldn't shoot like Bledsoe. He had a real bad month early in the season but take a look at his stats, he's been very efficient for quite awhile now. He's raised his 3 point percentage from somewhere around 25% to just over 35% and his 2 point percentage is now just shy of the 50% mark. He's not Steve Nash but "can't shoot" misses the mark.

Steve

He's improved... But with respect to the 2 point percentage, I wonder how much of that is influenced by drives to the basket? Which we'll take of course, but could be hiding his otherwise poor "shooting" ability...

 

[BC867]

The problem is far more rooted in the guys off the ball than with the ball handler.

How about . . . the problem is far more rooted in the Front Office and coaching staff than with the guys off the ball or the ball handler?

Otherwise, it sounds like the inmates are running the asylum, as the old saying goes.

Individual motivation is a good thing when coordinated. Letting 10 or 12 millionaires do their own thing is bound to result in lack of teamwork. And it has. It's not their job, man.

 

[Phrazbit]

How about . . . the problem is far more rooted in the Front Office and coaching staff than with the guys off the ball or the ball handler?

Otherwise, it sounds like the inmates are running the asylum, as the old saying goes.

Individual motivation is a good thing when coordinated. Letting 10 or 12 millionaires run the team is bound to result in lack of teamwork. It's not their job, man.

I still disagree. This is a franchise that was a ruin less than 2 years ago, its a roster that was supposed to win less than 20 games last year. There are limits to what can be done when the talent is minimal and some key personalities are cancerous.

Its a bummer that they've taken a couple steps back this year but they've progressed by a mile since taking over for the clowns that used to be here.

I realize how futile it is to make all these observations for like the 200th time here, but outside of some disgruntled fans with unrealistic expectations the front office and coaching staff is held in extremely high regard around basketball, and with good cause.

I feel like some people need to go watch some of the 2012-13 season to regain some of the perspective about what it REALLY looks like when a team is in disarray.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's improved... But with respect to the 2 point percentage, I wonder how much of that is influenced by drives to the basket? Which we'll take of course, but could be hiding his otherwise poor "shooting" ability...

I really don't know but I would point out the frequent game threads complaining that he never even tries to make the basket. The complaint goes, he just jumps into the opposing player hoping for a foul. I don't know how that's going to help his shooting percentage but regardless, points is points.

Steve