Timberwolves @ Suns 12-15-19

[SweetD]

I see that Holmes was 5th in scoring. Because I didn't see the whole game, was that strictly as backup Center or, by any chance, was he given a chance to play alongside Ayton?

There will be zero chance of an Ayton/Holmes line up. The current offensive sets do not allow for a non stretch PF to be on the floor. The spacing for the pick and roll and back sets need to have a PF that is on the side three point line.

 

[1tinsoldier]

There will be zero chance of an Ayton/Holmes line up. The current offensive sets do not allow for a non stretch PF to be on the floor. The spacing for the pick and roll and back sets need to have a PF that is on the side three point line.

Ayton and Holmes should share some time together
time for some new plays other than the pick and roll

 

[JCSunsfan]

Started three rookies in this game. That is really unheard of in today's one-and-done world. Melton is looking not horrible, but we need a better starting guard.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well slap my ass and call me pappy, o believe that’s two W’s in a row!

The team looked good tonight. What seems to really be gelling is effort defense. The entire team seems to be moving their feet and very active. Love it.

Listening to the minny feed was painful. It was almost as if a minny player did something wrong they forgot the rules of basketball.

The team’s a’growin’!

 

[Phrazbit]

can I also just say thank god Ariza is finally off this team. Any time he was on the court, I just seemed pissed watching him.

The Ariza that showed up for the first game of the season and the guy who was around ever since... it's just unfathomable. I'd say that I havn't seen a player give up on a season that fast if I hadn't watched Bledsoe in the first half of the season opener last year.

for those watching, can anyone put their finger on why the Wolves are so damn mediocre? That's a team with a lot of talent.

Wiggins is a big problem for them. His name carries the big talent reputation still, but he is a flat out negative player. He's an inefficient shooter who brings nothing on offense but his own middling shooting and on defense he does not even pretend to try.

He and Parker were supposed to be 'can't miss' stars and both are inefficent, selfish bums... I think the only reason their massive failure has not gotten the "All Time Let Down" press they deserve is because they're BOTH bad and Anthony Bennett preceded them as the biggest washout ever. But seriously, performance vs expectations, both are bigger busts than dudes like Kwame Brown and Olowokandi.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think Ariza was a combination of lack of effort and being asked to do too much. Even when he did play with effort he was generally bad because he was trying to do too much on offense and regularly guarding bigger/stronger guys in the paint a lot of the time. While the lack of effort at times is inexcusable, it is somewhat understandable that he struggled in the role he was being asked to play. I just wish he was more of a leader and actually did things to try and lead the young guys instead of walking down the court and sulking when things went bad.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Ariza regretted his decision to sign here almost immediately. He took the money but he also wanted to win. It just showed in his body language.

 

[95pro]

“If we win two in a row, it’s called a winning streak” - Major League

 

[Superbone]

He did. He got tossed one game, I think.

I don't think he got tossed but he got T'd up.

 

[Superbone]

I see that Holmes was 5th in scoring. Because I didn't see the whole game, was that strictly as backup Center or, by any chance, was he given a chance to play alongside Ayton?

Ayton had early foul trouble so Holmes came in early and played more minutes in the first half.

 

[Ronin]

“If we win two in a row, it’s called a winning streak” - Major League

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Ariza regretted his decision to sign here almost immediately. He took the money but he also wanted to win. It just showed in his body language.

this was basically Ariza in game 2 and for the rest of the season...

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[Raindog]

Yeah, Ariza checked out awfully early. It took all of one loss for him to start phoning it in.

 

[95pro]

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But with a Server head

 

[JCSunsfan]

Watching replays of recent games and it just dawned on me. The defensive turnaround of this team is being accomplished primarily by the three rookies: Bridges, Ayton and Melton. Booker and Warren are playing a little better. JJ is but only in spurts. Jamal is not a defender at all really. Of course, the defensive stalwart coming off the bench is Holmes.

Credit where credit is due. Igor is getting three rookies to play impact D.

 

[Hoop Head]

Watching replays of recent games and it just dawned on me. The defensive turnaround of this team is being accomplished primarily by the three rookies: Bridges, Ayton and Melton. Booker and Warren are playing a little better. JJ is but only in spurts. Jamal is not a defender at all really. Of course, the defensive stalwart coming off the bench is Holmes.

Credit where credit is due. Igor is getting three rookies to play impact D.

Hadn't thought of it that way before but that's a good point. I know I've been disappointed with Igor but he seems to have gotten through to the players recently. How or why, I'm not sure, but it appears to be working. Hopefully these are the Suns we see for the rest of the year. If they are, regardless of record, it will have been a good season. I'm not sure if there is a game to pinpoint as a turning point but I think it was about when Ariza missed time for "personal reasons" that everything started clicking. It took a little while to get it clicking more frequently but the Mavericks game and this Wolves game where there were maybe 10-12 minutes of bad basketball played by the team which is a huge difference from a month ago when we might have seen 10-12 minutes of good basketball within 3 or 4 games.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Hadn't thought of it that way before but that's a good point. I know I've been disappointed with Igor but he seems to have gotten through to the players recently. How or why, I'm not sure, but it appears to be working. Hopefully these are the Suns we see for the rest of the year. If they are, regardless of record, it will have been a good season. I'm not sure if there is a game to pinpoint as a turning point but I think it was about when Ariza missed time for "personal reasons" that everything started clicking. It took a little while to get it clicking more frequently but the Mavericks game and this Wolves game where there were maybe 10-12 minutes of bad basketball played by the team which is a huge difference from a month ago when we might have seen 10-12 minutes of good basketball within 3 or 4 games.

Maybe Igor had a Jerry Maguire moment with the team...Help me, help you!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Hadn't thought of it that way before but that's a good point. I know I've been disappointed with Igor but he seems to have gotten through to the players recently. How or why, I'm not sure, but it appears to be working. Hopefully these are the Suns we see for the rest of the year. If they are, regardless of record, it will have been a good season. I'm not sure if there is a game to pinpoint as a turning point but I think it was about when Ariza missed time for "personal reasons" that everything started clicking. It took a little while to get it clicking more frequently but the Mavericks game and this Wolves game where there were maybe 10-12 minutes of bad basketball played by the team which is a huge difference from a month ago when we might have seen 10-12 minutes of good basketball within 3 or 4 games.

You are certainly not the first or last, but I would like to ask why? Solely based upon record? Or you feel Ayton is misused? I can't think of another situation of a rookie head coach with such a young and G-league-filled roster to compare it with, but it has gone about as expected I would think. I also think the "misuse" of Ayton has more to do with Ayton than the coaching staff so far, based upon my observations and quotes from everyone involved.

 

[taz02]

I don't like the way Ayton has been used and obvious lineup changes seemed to take too long to recognize. I guess this can be expected for a rookie coach. Pairing a rookie coach with rookie players translates to a lot of losing.

Igor will probably be a good coach the question is how long will it take. In any event winning cures all. if they keep winning he'll be brilliant......

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't like the way Ayton has been used and obvious lineup changes seemed to take too long to recognize. I guess this can be expected for a rookie coach. Pairing a rookie coach with rookie players translates to a lot of losing.

Igor will probably be a good coach the question is how long will it take. In any event winning cures all. if they keep winning he'll be brilliant......

I know he has gotten a lot of criticism for not making lineup changes or making them when he should not. He did explain why he is doing that. This young team has to know exactly what to expect from game to game so he establishes set rotation plans before the game and sticks to them. IOW, he is putting player development ahead of wins. Not defending the practice, just saying that there is a reason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Watching replays of recent games and it just dawned on me. The defensive turnaround of this team is being accomplished primarily by the three rookies: Bridges, Ayton and Melton. Booker and Warren are playing a little better. JJ is but only in spurts. Jamal is not a defender at all really. Of course, the defensive stalwart coming off the bench is Holmes.

Credit where credit is due. Igor is getting three rookies to play impact D.

With all due respect both bridges and Melton cane into the nba with defensive reputations, so I’m not sure I’d attribute their effort to Igor. But reading the article on ayton’s development the other day gave me insight into what the suns player development guy is doing with Ayton and so I do think I’d give Igor and his staff a lot of credit there.

 

[SirStefan32]

You are certainly not the first or last, but I would like to ask why? Solely based upon record? Or you feel Ayton is misused? I can't think of another situation of a rookie head coach with such a young and G-league-filled roster to compare it with, but it has gone about as expected I would think. I also think the "misuse" of Ayton has more to do with Ayton than the coaching staff so far, based upon my observations and quotes from everyone involved.

I think people want to blame someone and the coach is the obvious easy choice.
Bottom line is that there is no chance in hell that Igor is a bad coach. From Serbia, to Georgia, and Slovenia, he is considered an outstanding coach in Europe. In the states, he has been highly regarded everywhere he's coached- Clippers, Detroit, Phoenix, Utah, etc. I am going to assume that Alvin Gentry, Larry Brown, and Quinn Snyder are better judges of coaching abilities than a few malcontent fans on a Phoenix Suns message board.

I think that one of the problems is that Igor is very methodical and not reactionary. Casual fans (myself included) sometimes like reactionary. Igor started the season trying to see what he has with the veterans. Theoretically, Ariza, Anderson, and Canaan should have been better than a bunch of rookies. Without looking it up, there is 30 seasons of NBA experience between them. He stuck with the vets for a few games and then started making adjustments, one by one.

Igor will be fine. My guess is that an experienced, calm, methodical coach is exactly what a young team like Phoenix needs. Fans want someone who will get angry, someone who will yell, and scream, but anyone who's ever been in a leadership position knows that anger, yelling, and screaming rarely works. That's a tactic for some very rare instances in which it is helpful only because it shows the contrast with the "usual" approach. "Calm" is not "weak". You will notice that when Bridges got frustrated, Igor didn't let him just go to the bench. Igor was going to coach him (like he coaches everyone when they go to the bench) no matter what.

Igor knows what he is doing. He just has a team full of new players and rookies that lacks NBA talent. It will take a while for everything to get worked out, and I suspect fans will be calling for Igor to be fired after every couple of losses. That's a distraction. Outside of a few random games since the awful start, the Suns haven't looked like a joke, with the exception of those first two games without Booker and Warren.

 

[SirStefan32]

With all due respect both bridges and Melton cane into the nba with defensive reputations, so I’m not sure I’d attribute their effort to Igor. But reading the article on ayton’s development the other day gave me insight into what the suns player development guy is doing with Ayton and so I do think I’d give Igor and his staff a lot of credit there.

There are many players who come into the NBA with good reputation on defense. You still have to get them to put forth the effort and keep them motivated while the team is losing. Once they start winning, players tend to be easier to motivate. It's when the things are not going well that it takes good leadership to keep people motivated.

 

[Chaplin]

I know he has gotten a lot of criticism for not making lineup changes or making them when he should not. He did explain why he is doing that. This young team has to know exactly what to expect from game to game so he establishes set rotation plans before the game and sticks to them. IOW, he is putting player development ahead of wins. Not defending the practice, just saying that there is a reason.

Ironically, that is the exact thing we needed to do over the past couple tanking years, which we didn't. We finally are doing it, but it happens to be in a year where we want to "win." Bad luck.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He just has a team full of new players and rookies that lacks NBA talent. .

I agree with everything else stated but man am I tired of this narrative. Yes the “new players” is accurate. But “lacks nba talent” just isn’t. If you want to say “lacks nba experience” or “undeveloped talent” I can get onboard. But the truth we know there’s talent.

Established talent:
Booker
Warren

Aging talent:
Crawford

Backup/energy talent:
Oubre
Holmes
Rivers

High developing talent:
Ayton
Bridges

High potential talent:
JJ

Good backup developing talent:
Melton

Good potential talent:
Okobo

Many are in early stages of their development but I think most would classify them as nba talent. I think virtually everyone listed above would be on nba rosters if not on the suns. And likely only Melton and okobo would be getting stints in the G league (which they’ve been getting with us), which isn’t unusual for most nba teams. So can we quit saying we have no talent and only a bunch of G leaguers? Because (a) it’s just not true; and (b) those phrases are only being used in a hyperbolic manner to forward an argument and that’s a disingenuous method of argumentation.