Time to Fix that Oline...

[Goldfield]

We have abunch of money poured into the oline now with Wells & Brown this offseason. But I dont care, with the talent we have at the other positions we HAVE to finally fix the Oline.

If Vince Young isnt availabe at ten we NEED to pick Winston Justice. Then we can have Wells, Both Browns & Ross all compete for the two guard spots.

I dont care if he is alittle bit of a reach(maybe not with his great proday). Take him and improve this team alot.

 

[Snakester]

You'll get no arguments from me. I agree. I think the RT position is our biggest need and Justice would take care of that.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm willing to give this offensive line a shot with a real coach before I start pumping more money into trying to fix it. Not to mention reaching for a player because he fills a need is a move Dave McGinnis and not Denny Green would make. If Huff, VY, Hawk, and Vernon Davis are off the board then I might consider it but would not pass on them as they are much better prospects.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm willing to give this offensive line a shot with a real coach before I start pumping more money into trying to fix it. Not to mention reaching for a player because he fills a need is a move Dave McGinnis and not Denny Green would make. If Huff, VY, Hawk, and Vernon Davis are off the board then I might consider it but would not pass on them as they are much better prospects.

Add Jimmy Williams to that list and there's not a word on the above post that I disagree with.

 

[BigRedFan]

Actually I think McGinnis would be more likely to stick with the same players that didnt work out, Green seems more likely to take action. Although we didnt do much to the O-line in free agency, it beats overpaying for garbage like we did last year. I just get this feeling the below listed players will be gone, unless someone takes Cutler in the top 10.

I'm willing to give this offensive line a shot with a real coach before I start pumping more money into trying to fix it. Not to mention reaching for a player because he fills a need is a move Dave McGinnis and not Denny Green would make. If Huff, VY, Hawk, and Vernon Davis are off the board then I might consider it but would not pass on them as they are much better prospects.

 

[Bobcat]

You'll get no arguments from me. I agree. I think the RT position is our biggest need and Justice would take care of that.

Who was that guy who Oakland took a few years back who was a sure thing at RT...??? So far hasn't he been a failure at RT. or was it LT? It take at least 3 years to develope an offensive Linemen. Not just right out of college. that is why you either trade for or get a vet through Free Agency.

Oh Yes his name was Gallery, so far a bust. Sorry if I busted your bubble, but reality is what this team really needs, not a wish and a prayer.

Bobcat

 

[Goldfield]

Who was that guy who Oakland took a few years back who was a sure thing at RT...??? So far hasn't he been a failure at RT. or was it LT? It take at least 3 years to develope an offensive Linemen. Not just right out of college. that is why you either trade for or get a vet through Free Agency.

Oh Yes his name was Gallery, so far a bust. Sorry if I busted your bubble, but reality is what this team really needs, not a wish and a prayer.

Bobcat

Green has been hitting alot more than missing in the draft. I would make an exception on passing on Justice for afew other players in the top ten like a Vince Young.

If nothing else We could trade down afew spots and still pickup Justice and add more picks in this deep draft.

You can never have too good of an OLine...

Do you guys remember how bad that line was last year????? Take Justice and if Ross doesnt look to form then cut him and his big cap number.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Green has been hitting alot more than missing in the draft. I would make an exception on passing on Justice for afew other players in the top ten like a Vince Young.

If nothing else We could trade down afew spots and still pickup Justice and add more picks in this deep draft.

You can never have too good of an OLine...

Do you guys remember how bad that line was last year????? Take Justice and if Ross doesnt look to form then cut him and his big cap number.

I would not be so certain you can trade down very far and still expect to get Justice. I bet the Eagles will give him a long look at 14.

 

[Goldfield]

I would not be so certain you can trade down very far and still expect to get Justice. I bet the Eagles will give him a long look at 14.

I agree, I said afew I would rater move only 2-3 if any. If it were up to me I would just Take him and feel real good about our Oline situation.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I agree, I said afew I would rater move only 2-3 if any. If it were up to me I would just Take him and feel real good about our Oline situation.

People picking after us are the Rams (definitely no trade there), the Browns, and the Ravens.

The Ravens would seem the most likely trade partners, since either Cutler or Young should be there. At least it's a realistic idea =)

 

[BigDavis75]

Who was that guy who Oakland took a few years back who was a sure thing at RT...??? So far hasn't he been a failure at RT. or was it LT? It take at least 3 years to develope an offensive Linemen. Not just right out of college. that is why you either trade for or get a vet through Free Agency.

Oh Yes his name was Gallery, so far a bust. Sorry if I busted your bubble, but reality is what this team really needs, not a wish and a prayer.

Bobcat

So what? That's one example, I could give you several more for other positions. Also, Gallery is probably on roids plus was a late-riser and when you go that high in the draft being a lineman and a late riser expectations are huge.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....

 

[Evil Ash]

Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....Bpa.....

... and he (Justice) might be bpa on our board depending on who is taken ahead of us. I agree don't reach for need and that includes QB

 

[CardinalChris]

I think we can draft a playmaker (defensive or QB) and STILL get a very, very good RT. Most rookie O-lineman do not perform well their first year. I think a second or thrid round RT would do just as well.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

See I have MY idea who i think the players least likley to be busts are in this draft: (in order from as close to sure thing and down)

Bush
Hawk
Lienert
Micheal Huff
V. Davis
Ferguson
Justice
Maroney
Mario Williams
Ernie Sims
Jay Cutler
Vince Young
Jimmy Williams
Darnell Bing ( I think he is that good)
Kiwanueka
and on....

What I do is combine football production and what i have seen (most important) with good physical numbers. I also factor in things like playing for USC ( a plus to play in that prostyle offense) and injuries.

But the bottom line is, Denny Green has proven to me that is an EXCELLENT talent evaluator and calculated gambler. I like more of our picks since he has been in the position than i did in a decade or so of Vince Tobin and Dave McGinnis.

So if Denny likes Justice as a francihise LT who just needs a little direction over players like Davis and Cutler than I take his word for it. ANd if its Davis, than i'm guessing he sees something i didnt. The only picks where i would wonder what the Cardinals are doing are Ngata (IMO a bust in waiting), Bunkley (too late a riser) or Williams (a reach at this point) and to a certain degree VY (who i think will take longer to develop than KW has left IMO).

I was listining to talk radio out here and they were talking about how Nick Saban has the implicit trust of the fans. i.e if Saban deemed Harrington a better back up/part time starter than what is the more popular thought out here (K Collins) who was anybody to question it. The point is that no coach in Miami history, including Shula in the 80's and Jimmy Johnson in the 90's, whom were given such latitude.

Denny has not earned that much credibility with me, as i question his coaching decisions from time to time, but i do feel at ease with him at the helm running the draft. I guarantee he hauls three future starters out of this draft. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.....

 

[Goodyear Card]

It is looking more and more likely the number ten spot is a good place to be. Chances are very good we will be able to draft an impact player. There are no sure picks but I would be more than satisfied with Justice. I am not happy with anyone on the OL and at the very least Justice will provide some depth and competition at the OT position and he may even win a starting position.

 

[Goldfield]

I think I take VY if available at 10. Other than that Justice make too much sence to me.

 

[kerouac9]

So what? That's one example, I could give you several more for other positions. Also, Gallery is probably on roids plus was a late-riser and when you go that high in the draft being a lineman and a late riser expectations are huge.

Robert Gallery was most definitely NOT a late riser. He was the #1 OT prospect in that draft, and was drawing comparisons to Jonathan Ogden/Orlando Pace. Many, many people on this board like Lex (check out Post #38) thought that Gallery was a "can't miss" prospect at LT, and he hasn't even managed to start for them.

At the same time, Mike Williams, Bryant McKinnie, Kenyatta Walker, etc. have all failed to live up to expectation at the LT position since they were drafted, even after YEARS of development.

This team believed that they had a solid offensive line a year ago; maybe if they think that Leonard Davis will not be able to be re-signed, taking Justice makes more sense, but I don't think that he's a plug-and-play prospect at RT or LT, and I don't think that he has the potential impact that a Vince Young happens to have.

 

[Duckjake]

It is looking more and more likely the number ten spot is a good place to be. Chances are very good we will be able to draft an impact player. There are no sure picks but I would be more than satisfied with Justice. I am not happy with anyone on the OL and at the very least Justice will provide some depth and competition at the OT position and he may even win a starting position.

Actually I think #10 is a bad slot this year. There are about 7-8 top talents and then a whole group of guys who would be worth late second or early first round money but would be considered a "reach" at 10.

But then I've been a Cardinal fan for a long time so have come to expect stuff like that to happen to us.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Actually I think #10 is a bad slot this year. There are about 7-8 top talents and then a whole group of guys who would be worth late second or early first round money but would be considered a "reach" at 10.

But then I've been a Cardinal fan for a long time so have come to expect stuff like that to happen to us.

Name your 8 top talents.

 

[football karma]

"Name your 8 top talents"


I think there are a two "tiers" in this top of this draft:

No brainers -- productive in college, played against top competition, very good triangle numbers, no off field or attitude concerns:

1. Bush
2. Mario Williams
3. D. Ferguson
4. Leinart
5. Hawk
6. V. Davis

Very good but at least one question:

7. M. Huff -- maybe not a corner. Do you take a free safety that high?
8. V. Young -- can he transition to NFL offenses?
9. H. Ngata -- inconsistent motor.
10. J. Cutler -- mediocre production -- a function of the supporting cast?
11. J. Williams -- attitude concerns. Also not a corner.
12. W. Justice -- off field concerns.

The ranking is perhaps a bit unfair to M. Huff -- whose only question is about the value of taking a free safety at #7, otherwise he belongs in the "no brainer" category.

 

[Captain Matt]

We have abunch of money poured into the oline now with Wells & Brown this offseason. But I dont care, with the talent we have at the other positions we HAVE to finally fix the Oline.

If Vince Young isnt availabe at ten we NEED to pick Winston Justice. Then we can have Wells, Both Browns & Ross all compete for the two guard spots.

I dont care if he is alittle bit of a reach(maybe not with his great proday). Take him and improve this team alot.

Give me Hawk, Furgeson, Williams, any of the 3 qbs, Huff, Davis, or Bunkley before Justice. Please!!!!!

 

[BACH]

Who was that guy who Oakland took a few years back who was a sure thing at RT...??? So far hasn't he been a failure at RT. or was it LT? It take at least 3 years to develope an offensive Linemen. Not just right out of college. that is why you either trade for or get a vet through Free Agency.

Oh Yes his name was Gallery, so far a bust. Sorry if I busted your bubble, but reality is what this team really needs, not a wish and a prayer.

Bobcat

Weak arguementation....

Of all positions a top Offensive Tackle is the least likely to be a bust. I think every expert and draft-geek would agree with me that Ferguson is the safest pick in this entire draft.

 

[Bobcat]

Weak arguementation....

Of all positions a top Offensive Tackle is the least likely to be a bust. I think every expert and draft-geek would agree with me that Ferguson is the safest pick in this entire draft.

Please read post #18 by kerouac9; if anyone's post is weak it is your arguementation.... . We were talking about Gallery not Brickshaw F.; and he still may be a bust, the statics in the past prove me out as Post # 18 ha pointed out.

Remember Tony Mandrich (sp)

Bobcat.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I know this point might have been mentioned in the past, however, it seems to get overlooked quite a lot....

The key word is "continuity"... which is what the Cardinals have lacked in the OL for several years... Whether it be injuries or players not panning-out.. they've constantly have patched work that position with UDFA and those who were beyond their prime.... I feel given a chance with Davis, M. Brown, Ross, Wells, E. Brown, Step, and Lecky... they all have that talent and athleticism... have the passion...... Along with cohesion... the essence of better coaching will come into play since Loney is proven.. whereas... we all know Lindsey didnt have any credibility... especially since he inherited the role from Wylie out of default.... I think if Green and Wylie got along better..the OL would have progressed by leaps and bounds by now, but instead regressed since they hire someone who couldnt even make the team as a player out of training camp....

Then.. now to have an RB of "the Edge's" calibre is enough to elevate their game... I believe they werent motivated at times knowing that they were blocking for someone who is less than he once was which was Shipp and someone who seemed to be a total coward such as Arrington... Now.. they know they're fully aware that they have someone of Edgerrin James magnitude.. that they will go all out to be on highlight reels as the one who delivered that big block to create a game breaking run... or a 3 yard scamper into the endzone......

People tend to forget about what happened w/Barry Sanders between the '91 and '92 season.... The Lions in '91 finished 12-4 and went to the NFC title game to ultimately be massacred by the Red Skins.. one of the main reasons why the Lions advanced that far was the continuity of a unit that had been together for several seasons which included Lomas Brown before he hit his prime, Kevin Glover, and Ken Dallafoir..and 2 vastly emerging players who were becoming Pro Bowl talents of their own... that being Mike Utley (we all know his fate) and then Eric Andolsek who died during that offseason when a motorist ran him over as he was mowing his lawn (IIRC)....

So.. with 2 of their top OL no longer on the squad to start the '92, they were forced to draft Larry Tharpe and also rely on a couple other unprovens at that position which caused them go to 5-11 as a result....Then after that they signed a smattering of veterans and drafted OLs between the 3rd-6th rounds and all began to gradually establish that continuity and began advancing to the play-offs the following few years w/some frequency... Sanders would reward the OL with Rolex watches when he would earn another leading rusher trophy.....

So.. essentially.. I think w/continuity, better coaching, and a sense of motivation to have the Edge in the backfield..the Cardinals OL isnt too as far out as it may appear on the surface.....